El-P Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Holy shit. Erik Watts in 92 wouldn't have done worse (excuse my references, I'm living in a wrestling time warp). So, they ended Ryback's streak via screwjob in a HITC ? Where's Scott Hall and his tazer when you need it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 2. I just think it's cause he stinks. Eh, Stinks is stretching things but no, he wasn't good enough that he'd have lasted this many years in the company had he stuck to in ring instead of switching to becoming a manager & announcer. Same deal for Josh Matthews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 - Has anyone else noticed how bored & uninspired Jim Ross has been since his return? It's like he doesn't want to be there at all. I think the only thing Ross didn't want anymore was the heavy travel schedule (possibly due to showing up at airports smelling of alcohol). I'm assuming at his age, he wanted to cut down on that. (Probably the same thing for someone like Fink.) NXT was probably the perfect show from his point of view because he got to do a series of tapings and not have to fly to work again for another month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Holy shit. Erik Watts in 92 wouldn't have done worse (excuse my references, I'm living in a wrestling time warp). Heh, this is a perfect example of why guys should always throw shit like they mean it even when they know it won't connect. Â I assume the spot was Orton was supposed to catch him with a punch to the gut or something. If Del Rio had actually been GOING for a move like an axe handle or clothesline instead of jumping up like an idiot who knew Orton was gonna counter things would have turned out much better. Worst case Orton would have gotten hit cause he forgot the spot but that's a heck of a lot better then a botchamania supreme moment like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 That didn't look all that bad to me. I think Orton's "C'mere" before the dropkick actually saved it. There's a missed move off the top rope, a lot of grasping for each other, and attempt at a kick, and then Orton's about to dropkick Del Rio, so he bounces off the ropes to get away only to get hit by it. It wasn't great or smooth or anything but it's hardly the worst thing ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 They should have had Sheamus keep the title over Show (maybe a DQ to keep Show strong - and if you think there shouldn't be two DQs on a show, well, they didn't have to do one in the tag title match), then have Ryback win the title from Punk, and then next month or whenever, have Punk beat Sheamus for his title. Then Punk ends up somehow with the belt on Raw, Ryback is champ on Smackdown (better because they can edit his matches), Punk-Rock is still on for the Rumble, Ryback can feud with Show, after Mania when Cena takes the belt from Rock Ziggler can cash in his MITB shot (not at Mania but soon after) and they can feud, and everything works out. Now Ryback is dead. Screwjob or not, nobody can buy a monster babyface who lost to a ballshot from a cruiserweight referee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 They should have just had Ryback win clean over Punk in the middle with his finish in about five minutes, in my opinion. I'm of the Mark Madden defense, I guess. Wrestling ability doesn't matter in professional wrestling & honestly, it never has. It's not about how great a worker you are or how many snowflakes Dave Meltzer gives you when talking about your last match like it's a gymnastic vault. Ryback is a new act, pretty hot & WWE should have gave it a shot. The length of Punk's reign doesn't matter. Hell, his whole reign hasn't mattered. He's still "not John Cena." It's all about making money & the ratings are the lowest they've been in fifteen years, so WWE obviously needs to do something. Naming a new General Manager isn't the answer. Bringing Vince McMahon back to television isn't the answer. Sticking to the status quo is obviously not the answer. So we're just going to keep the belt on Punk so he can lose to The Rock in three months & hope that the ratings don't keep going down? Where does that get us? Punk having a long reign doesn't matter. What, he's going to use it as a bragging point during some promos? Who gives a shit. That doesn't sell tickets. People might actually pay for an unstoppable monster on top. Even if Ryback is the drizzling shits, who cares? It's worked before, it could work again. Instead, all they did was make Ryback & Punk both look worse AND piss off their paying fans on top of that, in a time when the fans are leaving in droves & WWE doesn't have any stars. That's some dying days WCW shit. Â I kind of wish WWE could get a restart for the whole year. Go back & have John Cena beat The Rock at Wrestlemania & lose to Brock Lesnar & Extreme Rules. That would have been a good starting place. Also don't kill Daniel Bryan in 18 seconds. How different is this year if Brock Lesnar, the former UFC champion, is the unbeatable monster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueminister Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Wait, so panicking over TV ratings and interrupting a long-term angle featuring one of the few truly over guys on the roster by hotshotting the title to a booker's pet whose overness may or may not be entirely dependent on a winning streak gimmick is... the opposite of the dying days of WCW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 If they weren't going to put Ryback over, then they shouldn't have put Ryback in the match in the first place. They panicked because Cena got hurt & instead of going all the way with their decision, they half-assed it & ended up making things worse. THAT is dying days WCW. Â I don't know what the answer is but it's definitely not making both the wrestlers look worse & pissing off your fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'm reminded of that conversation a while back about how counterproductive it was to have main eventers sell for Shane McMahon. Isn't what happened to Ryback basically that times ten? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 They should have just had Ryback win clean over Punk in the middle with his finish in about five minutes, in my opinion. I'm of the Mark Madden defense, I guess. Wrestling ability doesn't matter in professional wrestling & honestly, it never has. It's not about how great a worker you are or how many snowflakes Dave Meltzer gives you when talking about your last match like it's a gymnastic vault. Yes. People think this is what wrestling is. I know I do. This is the main reason Punk should have gone over. His matches get higher star ratings from Dave Meltzer. No other reason. Punk/Rock having appeal in January, and meaning more if Punk has held the title for over a year going in is just a cover story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueminister Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 They did put Ryback over, he manhandled the champion and press-slammed a ref into the outside cell wall from inside the ring. That he didn't win the championship is just good sense as he's a genetic freak who isn't ready to carry the show and may not even need the championship to stay over. They also further cemented CM Punk as, you know, a real conniving dick who seems to find a way to come out with his championship intact, which whether you agree or disagree with that booking turn is probably not something they need to abandon before the culmination of the angle they've been building to for months. Â There's lots of things WWE does wrong and will continue to do wrong until Stephanie McMahon no longer walks the earth, but I can't say that not betting the farm on Ryback being a much bigger deal than he appears to be is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'm going to go ahead & go out on a limb & suggest that anyone disagreeing with me didn't actually pay for the show. And no offense, but if you stole the show, just read results of the show, or didn't watch the show, you're going to have a different mentality than someone that paid fifty bucks to watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueminister Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Sorry, I thought we were arguing about long-term booking and not you feeling gypped because you overpaid for a wrestling show and they didn't do what you were thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Sorry, I thought we were arguing about long-term booking and not you feeling gypped because you overpaid for a wrestling show and they didn't do what you were thinking.You're the best troll. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'm going to go ahead & go out on a limb & suggest that anyone disagreeing with me didn't actually pay for the show. And no offense, but if you stole the show, just read results of the show, or didn't watch the show, you're going to have a different mentality than someone that paid fifty bucks to watch it. I disagree with you and I did not pay for the show. I just read the results. I do have a different mentality. I am continuously amazed at your ability to call things as you see them and be right far more often than you're wrong. You're a visionary and stuff, but talking about smark point of views the way you did is so behind-the-times that I expect you to be listening to a Staind CD and sticking out your tongue and screaming "Whazzzzaaap?" while posting it from your 56k modem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 One doesn't often see Loss that cheesed. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Sometimes you just need to take a punt on a guy when the time is right and he's hot, because more often than not, especially in this day and age, you can't recapture that lightning in a bottle again. Really, rather than wasting his undefeated streak gimmick, they should have just plugged someone else in the gap (Orton, Bryan, Rey, etc) or done a multi man match and taken the hit on pay-per-view for one month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueminister Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 They should have booked Ryback against Punk in Hell In the Cell because it was a fresh matchup with great hype and it allowed them to feed the undefeated gimmick to one of the few wrestlers on the roster for who it wouldn't be wasted in a situation that still allows them to preserve Ryback's air of physical indestructibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 It says it all that they felt using Brock Lesnar in the finish would have "wasted" a date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 They should have booked Ryback against Punk in Hell In the Cell because it was a fresh matchup with great hype and it allowed them to feed the undefeated gimmick to one of the few wrestlers on the roster for who it wouldn't be wasted in a situation that still allows them to preserve Ryback's air of physical indestructibility. It was wasted. Punk's not going to come out of this a bigger star or a better draw. I think there's some limited value in him holding the title for longer, but it's not a difference maker. Creating a new star would be. We'll see where Ryback is in six months time, but I'd rather risk pushing a guy too soon than missing the right moment that may never come again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 But why feed the streak to a guy who's already reached his ceiling of overness? I get that they're trying to build up Punk/Rock and then Rock/Cena II, and I'm sure it'll pop a couple of great buyrates. But where does that leave you in a year's time? You have to create new stars at some point. And you run the risk that Ryback will have cooled off beyond repair by the time you decide to elevate him for real. Â I'm not saying that putting the belt on Ryback would have been an unqualified good. More that they booked themselves into a corner and all their options were suboptimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueminister Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Considering how often since he's been a top-tier guy that Punk has been booked ineffectively I'm not convinced he's reached whatever Peak Overness Level you guys keep talking about, or that a guy with what even casual fans acknowledge is a warmed over Goldberg gimmick is the cure for what ails WWE. Cena, Punk, Sheamus etc.'s problem isn't that they're expired assets ready to be sent to the glue factory, it's that they're undermined by booking at crucial junctures -- and there's no reason to believe this would change with however many new faces you put on top. Acting like the dullness of the product is something that would be cured by hotshotting any new kid when it's endemic to WWE's creative approach is absurd. You're advocating a non-solution that would last for however many weeks it takes Stephanie and Vince to break the toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 The sad thing is, "Elevating someone new won't work because they'll just screw it up anyway" isn't something I can effectively respond to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueminister Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Yeah, it's hard for me to go for any changes that'll supposedly turn the business around when those solutions involve competent follow-through. Frankly I think they've hit a good rhythm with Punk and any possibility of Ryback staying over is contingent on him not being the center of creative's attention, so this is good for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.