Who was treated worse?

[JerryvonKramer]

One of the things I've noticed watching the 84 TNT stuff is how shoddily Vince treated a lot of the old 70s stars whether or not they worked for Vince Sr.

 

By 1985 Ivan Putski was regularly jobbing to Iron Mike Sharpe. He even has a loss recorded against Frenchie Martin. We all know the fate of Pedro Morales. Salvataore Bellomo was basically a jobber by 85. The Valiant Brothers, tag champs in the late 70s, jobbing to Uncle Elmer in 10 seconds by 85. Even someone like Rocky Johnson was basically done by 1985. There wasn't so much a changing of the guard as there was a PURGE of the old guard. Over in the NWA, where Dusty had the book things were ok if you were a 70s star and friends with Dusty, but if you're Dory Funk Jr you're jobbing to Kevin Sullivan. By 87, your options as a 70s star unless you were Dusty, Flair, Dick Murdoch or Terry Funk, it seems to me, was either to be job fodder in the big two, try to work Japan, or eke out a living working for Verne Gange and probably tagging with Baron von Raschke in the AWA or possibly go to USWA for a cup of coffee.

 

-------

 

On the flipside, you might think the life of an 80s star was rosy in the 90s with Bischoff giving stupid money to anyone with name value. But for every Hogan, there are two Ricky Mortons or Bobby Eatons or Tommy Rogers and so on who couldn't get a job or a push for love nor money. Unless you were part of a select group of 80s stars that Vince made circa 87-92, Bischoff didn't want to know and even if you were he'd probably forget he'd actually signed you and forget to book you. And Vince didn't want to know. Seems to me there are marginally more options than their 70s equivalents: ECW would give you some work and exposure, Cornette would probably give you a payday in SMW. But I wonder what the paydays in either of those two were really like. From a money and status standpoint, would you rather work an upper midcard angle in 88 AWA or 96-7 ECW? Or SMW in the same timeframe?

 

------

 

Either way, unless you're someone who has mainevented Wrestlemania, times are tough when you are a wrestler the wrong side of 40. But who was it tougher for? The 70s guys in the late 80s or the 80s guys in the late 90s?

 

Which one would you rather have been from a professional and a money standpoint? Would you rather be an Ivan Putski / Pedro Morales / Ivan Koloff in 87 or a Ricky Morton or Tommy Rogers or even a Rick Martel in 97? Reasoning is encouraged.

[El-P]

I'd rather be Rick Martel. Retired early (although he made that brief and really good comeback which was fucked up by both of Harlem Heat's incompetence), made money in real estate, got a good life outside of wrestling.

Scratch that, I'd rather be Jesse Ventura or Ray Rougeau, who retired even before getting injured (both around 35 years old), made shitloads of money and live a good life.

(read : I'd rather be a smart worker who saved his money and got into other ventures early, whatever the era)

[JerryvonKramer]

I also wonder about what was more alienating:

 

Being a 70s old-timer in the late 80s rock 'n' roll wrestling era or being an 80s boomer during the attitude era?

 

One thing I've noticed about Vince's general strategy during his expansion: he'd take stars from other territories and repackage them with a colourful gimmick. The old-timers though, the Vince Sr. guys, he wouldn't repackage those, he'd just leave them, as it were, to fade and seem dated. All these wacky characters with nutty gimmicks around and poor old Pedro Morales is just plain Pedro Morales. No gimmick to speak of at all. This is at its most evident in the early Survivor Series.

 

 

Who stands out as the odd person out there? Plain old no gimmick 70s Ken Patera.

 

Look at next year's card:

 

 

Pretty much everyone there is a colourful gimmick ... expect plain old Ken Patera and possibly Tito and Greg Valentine too.

 

Very little trace of the Vince Sr guys now. Whoever was still on the books was mainly jobbing at houseshows. I think Johnny Rodz, Putski, even SD Jones were probably all gone by this stage.

 

If you compare the treatment of those guys to their equivalents in 1997, I think more of an effort was made -- for example -- to make British Bulldog feel contemporary and relevant. It's not a fully fledged repackaging but there are enough tweaks to 80s Bulldog to make the 90s variant feel distinctly different. Jim Neidhart wrestled on that show as well, but I can't remember what he looked like in 97.

 

Point is, at least in WWF, during the 80s Vince simply made no effort at all to help out any of the older guys who weren't brought in from elsewhere. He let them get dated, he let them fade, he let them seem like they relics of a by-gone time. In the 90s, he made more of an effort to reinvent any of the older guys he'd make who weren't working for WCW.

[Victator]

It sucked how One Man Gang never got a real push after he left the WWF. Even by 99, he was still a hell of a bumper/brawler.

[JerryvonKramer]

He did have that US title run in WCW around 95/6. Don't forget that's a title both Vader and Sting had held around that point, not to be sniffed at.

[cm funk]

Vince did give second runs to a number of 80's stars in the 90's. Brought King Kong Bundy back for a run with Undertaker. Gave Nikolai Volkoff a TV role when he was far past the point of usefulness. Gave Backlund a good run as a heel. Repackaged Jacques Rougeau as The Mountie and then with the Quebeccers team. Repackaged Tito Santana as El Matador, though that wasn't really a success. Barry Windham was brought in a few times. Brought Albano back. Brought Honky Tonk Man back as a manager and commentator. Brought Boss Man back during the peak of the attitude era.

 

Lots of guys were given second acts in WCW thanks to association with Hogan. Beefcake, Honky, Duggan, Earthquake, Boss Man, Orndorff etc.

 

I tend to think of some of these 70's guys mentioned like Rocky Johnson, Patera, Putski and Muraco as being more broken down physically by the mid-late 80's, which I would speculate was due to heavy and less knowledgeable steroid use. Big John Studd would be another one. He kept using Snuka even when he was a shell of himself physically. Billy Graham was completely broken down, but Vince did try to give him another run. He pushed Bruno again when he was like 50.

 

There were probably more and better options for guys to keep working in the late 80's, but I'm not sure how much a lot of those guys could work. Pedro was 45 when he left in 87, and I think he had a run in Puerto Rico and then retired. Putski was 40 in 1981, and I don't think he worked much if at all when his WWF career wound down.

 

There were lots of indy shows in the northeast in the 90's where guys like Tito, Valentine, Bundy, Muraco, Snuka etc. would work. Global had lots of 80's journeyman tyes. ECW gave work to a lot of veterans who wouldn't/couldn't get used by the big 2, guys like Jack Victory and Tommy Rich. Lots of guys kept working out of the spotlight. mid-late 80's there were still a number of territories to go to work, even if they weren't doing great.

[Ricky Jackson]

Who stands out as the odd person out there? Plain old no gimmick 70s Ken Patera.

Actually the correct answer is the cardboard cutout of Don Muraco.

[Victator]

He did have that US title run in WCW around 95/6. Don't forget that's a title both Vader and Sting had held around that point, not to be sniffed at.

Gang talked about that in his shoot. He said he was very grateful to have the title. But they refused to give him a contract. It bothered him because they seemed to give everybody who came in a big contract.

[JerryvonKramer]

What was the deal with Muraco's hiatus after he lost the IC title? Vince seemed to bury him on that TNT show and the keyfabe story is that he was just bumming around on the beach. Was that a cover story?

 

And cmfunk -- I think it's clear that ALL of the guys who were part of the 80s boom on the WWF-side got another 10 years added to their normal career. Jake, Honky, Duggan, whoever was around from 86 to about 92 really. But only on the WWF side, the NWA guys or the territory stars of the 80s -- save Flair and Arn -- were in no man's land in the 90s.

 

The physical condition was something I hadn't thought about though. Putski was looking pretty good in 84 from what I could see, but he really sucked as a worker. Still, Putski in 84 looked a hell of a lot better than Volkoff in 94. Muraco did too.

 

What I'm trying to work out is Vince's attitude to basically his dad's last group of talent. It seems like there's definitely part of him that has a mixture of nostalgia and respect for them, but at the same time he's not going out of his way to keep them relevant. Backlund, Volkoff, Snuka, and to some extent, Studd -- those are all Vince Jr. guys really. Guys he helped to make bigger stars right when he took over the company. Pedro, Putski, etc. they are Vince Sr. guys so there isn't that same sense of ownership there. Bruno is a special case, obviously.

 

If you look at Crockett during the same timeframe, they were still finding use for Ivan Koloff and Wahoo McDaniel in 85 and 86, and in a way that didn't make them seem particularly dated.

 

Just find Vince's approach on it interesting. Were the 70s guys really any more broken down than Snuka or Volkoff? If you look at the records as well, he really REALLY jobbed them out in 1984-5 sort of time. Like proper burials. SD Jones going over guys who held major titles, and then getting squashed by the new big-name heel the next night. Ronnie Garvin got that sort of treatment in 1990 as well.

[cm funk]

I don't find it that odd really. Vince had an influx of new talent culled from other territories to push, he was putting his stamp on the company and going national, and a lot of those guys who were depushed and jobbed out were old news. He had the luxury of picking and choosing from a lot of talent. Would you push 40+ Pedro, Putski, Patera etc. when you have Savage, Steamboat, Valentine, Santana etc.? It was the natural course of things.

 

Morales was brought back as a spanish language commentator, and Putski was an early HOF entry and apparently wrestled on RAW in 97 teaming with Scott against Jerry & Brian Lawler (I don't remember that at all).

 

JCP on the other hand, in losing so much talent (or access to potential talent) to Vince, were more dependent on established stars like Koloff, Wahoo, Jimmy Valiant etc, and were playing to a more regional base. Same thing for the AWA.

 

As far as 80's NWA guys being relegated to the dustbin in the 90's, I don't think that's entirely true. Bobby Eaton had a job with WCW for a long time and was pushed as late as 95/96 as part of the Blue Bloods. Dusty Rhodes, Stan Lane, Michael Hayes and Terry Taylor retired for office jobs. Gordy's career halted due to the brain damage but still had brief runs in ECW and WWF. Kevin Sullivan continued working through the mid-90's and was a major player backstage for WCW for years. Nikita retired. Tully drugged himself out of the sport and then found god. Terry Funk continued to be relevant. Luger, Sting and the Steiners were still major players. The Road Warriors had pushes in both companies. Barry Windham's career was fucked by injuries, but he worked in both companies. Steamboat retired due to injury. RnR Express worked as underneath guys in both companies as well as SMW and lots of indy work, and were pretty dated by the mid 90's anyway. Rick Rude (more of a WWF guy I suppose) was forced to retire due to injury but was still used by the big 3 companies.

 

How many big NWA names just fell off the map completely and are totally unaccounted for? What lesser guys still had what it took to contribute and be relevant in the big 2 that weren't used?

[JerryvonKramer]

Manny Fernandez? Sam Houston? Jimmy Garvin? The Fantastics?

 

I also think that Luger, the Steiners and the Road Warriors having stints in WWF even though they were early 90s rather than 80s stints, made them seem like a bigger deal once they came back to WCW. And Sting was the pre-Hogan ace, so is a special case and arguably more of a 90s guy anyway.

 

Do you think it's just a coincidence that the NWA 80s guys had a rougher time of it that the WWF 1988 roster?

[Ricky Jackson]

What was the deal with Muraco's hiatus after he lost the IC title? Vince seemed to bury him on that TNT show and the keyfabe story is that he was just bumming around on the beach

I think that is the shoot reason as well. Muraco was known during his career for wrestling for a while, then heading to Hawaii or wherever, where his heart truly was, only to return to wrestling after burning through all his cash.

[JerryvonKramer]

On that ep of TNT when the letter comes in about it, Vince is visibly pissed off about it, and pretty much buries Muraco. It's odd to think now that the audience only knew him as an announcer because on that show it's really CLEAR that he's the dude calling the shots. Treats Alfred like his bitch too.

[cm funk]

Manny Fernandez? Sam Houston? Jimmy Garvin? The Fantastics?

 

I also think that Luger, the Steiners and the Road Warriors having stints in WWF even though they were early 90s rather than 80s stints, made them seem like a bigger deal once they came back to WCW. And Sting was the pre-Hogan ace, so is a special case and arguably more of a 90s guy anyway.

 

Do you think it's just a coincidence that the NWA 80s guys had a rougher time of it that the WWF 1988 roster?

Garvin wrestled into his 40's, then retired. He did not look good at all in his later years.

 

Houston is a guy who partied himself out of relevancy at a young age, and he was never a major star IMO. He had a little push in the NWA and WWF exposure, but he was never more than a midcarder.

 

Manny had a lengthy run in Puerto Rico after qutting JCP, and bounced around the indy circuit for years, but he's a guy who burned a lot of bridges. His reputation in the industry was not great, and was considered a headcase. I'm not surprised he never ended up back in WCW or WWF.

 

The Fantastics look and gimmick was too dated to work in a national promotion come the 90's IMO. They've had good careers working the indys, Japan and southern legends circuit.

 

Basically there's reasons why all these people ended up where they did, and I don't think it's indicative of a larger freeze out of 80's NWA names

[Johnny Sorrow]

On that ep of TNT when the letter comes in about it, Vince is visibly pissed off about it, and pretty much buries Muraco. It's odd to think now that the audience only knew him as an announcer because on that show it's really CLEAR that he's the dude calling the shots. Treats Alfred like his bitch too.

And not to soon after that Muraco came back and was immediately put into a top program with Hogan. It was a work. They even had vignettes of Muraco laying around on the beach leading up to his return to emphasize his "laziness" and that he was a "Beach Bum."

 

As I mentioned, it led to a return with a three shot MSG program with Hogan and house shows to go with it, then him and Steamboat in a big undercard program that was popular. Vince on TNT getting "upset at Muraco" was never "real". Nothing on TNT was ever "real" or any of that shit. Christ, they did all the "Fuji Vice", etc shit with Muraco ON TNT during all this.

[El-P]

I also think that Luger, the Steiners and the Road Warriors having stints in WWF even though they were early 90s rather than 80s stints, made them seem like a bigger deal once they came back to WCW.

I don't think so. They were NWA/WCW guys through and through. The RW were huge stars for years in the NWA circuit and early on in WCW, and spent merely two years in WWF, in which they weren't used that well, ending their stint with a ridiculous puppet. Road Warriors coming back was just a homecoming. Ironically they ended up spending more time in WWF late in their career, when they were way past their prime.

 

The Steiners's stint in WWF is barely a footnote. No big match, no big feud, after less than one year that were fed to the Quebecers and basically disappeared from sight. They were huge star in WCW in the early 90's and them coming back when they did during the MNW era was basically WCW stars making a comeback after disapearing for a few years (Japan was their second home as far as star power goes).

 

Luger, well, he was a big name in WWF for a while, although one that just didn't work there (in every sens of the word), and by the summer of 1994 he was in a mid-card feud with Tatanka and the Million Dollar Corporation. Six montsh later he was thrown into a makeshift tag team with the British Bulldog in the nearly deceased tag division. Luger had worked on top of WCW for years and was a big deal to them and their audience from day one of his push to the day he departed, I think his comeback is another case of just a big WCW star coming back after being misused in WWF. In a way Luger showing up on Nitro feels like Shane Douglas showing up in the ECW arena in early 96 : the prodigal son has come back after WWF failed to do anything with him.

 

The perception that WWF is the big game in town is true in most cases, but those three names really bare the NWA/WCW name on their forehead. Flair was obviously the same thing.

 

Vince never really knew or enjoyed how to push legit stars from another company. The interesting thing is that the turnover happened after WWF really recieved a huge influx from former WCW "stars" or "would-be-stars" like Foley, Austin, Pillman, Mero, Simmons, Scorpio, Vader. Of course they wouldn't all play a major role in the turnover, of this bunch arguably only Austin & Foley did (well, Mero did too because he brought his wife), but it's interesting to see that in 1996, WWF's undercard really was invaded by a bunch of former WCW talent (lot of which had passed through ECW in a way or another). The circulation of talent is what made wrestling fun and what modified the streams of the different product, and it's really something that painfully lacks today. Okay, I'm ranting at this point.

[BruiserBrody]

Jules Strongbow managed to go from WWF tag champ to being stuck in small Philly indies within a year or so. Yes he was fat and largely bland as a worker but him not getting lower card job duty in the WWF is surprising - although Jay didn't like him so he probably made sure Jules stayed unemployed

[FLIK]

Vince never really knew or enjoyed how to push legit stars from another company. The interesting thing is that the turnover happened after WWF really recieved a huge influx from former WCW "stars" or "would-be-stars" like Foley, Austin, Pillman, Mero, Simmons, Scorpio, Vader.

Hey now, can't forget about Vinnie Vegas, The Diamond Studd & Terra Ryzing

[Al]

I don't think the decades were altogether that different. In 1970s WWWF, former '60s stars like Killer Kowalski, Gorilla Monsoon, Baron Scicluna, and Bobo Brazil jobbed often to newer stars. In the '80s it was Chief Strongbow, Ivan Putski. In the '90s it was Tito Santana. This decade it was Goldust. It's a natural progression of wrestling.

[killabee]

One of the things I've noticed watching the 84 TNT stuff is how shoddily Vince treated a lot of the old 70s stars whether or not they worked for Vince Sr.

 

By 1985 Ivan Putski was regularly jobbing to Iron Mike Sharpe.

 

Ha ha ha. Oh, how I wish there was a shred of truth to this, but there isn't, because I'm a big Sharpe fan. Putski has long been on my list of worst wrestlers, & by 1984 he was God-awful. When he came back jacked up on 'roids, he would blow up just jogging down to the ring. Incredibly, in one of the first WWF shows ever in Ontario in summer 84, & the first WWF show I saw live after the takeover of Maple Leaf, Putski got a clean win over Greg Valentine, who had been an upper card worker on Maple Leaf shows for years at this point. Did they use it to set up a rematch? Nope. Did they do it because they wanted to get Putski over in a new, unfamiliar market? Don't know, because he rarely made appearances in Toronto after that.

 

No, in 84-85, he was generally kept stronger & more well-protected than he should've been, given his lack of abilities & the lack of fan interest in him outside the traditional WWF stronghold in the Northeast. Putski should've been putting more guys over. And putting guys over isn't "shoddy treatment": the fact that a terrible hand like Putski still had a job after the talent influx suggests he was treated very well by his employers.

 

He even has a loss recorded against Frenchie Martin. We all know the fate of Pedro Morales. Salvataore Bellomo was basically a jobber by 85. The Valiant Brothers, tag champs in the late 70s, jobbing to Uncle Elmer in 10 seconds by 85. Even someone like Rocky Johnson was basically done by 1985. There wasn't so much a changing of the guard as there was a PURGE of the old guard. Over in the NWA, where Dusty had the book things were ok if you were a 70s star and friends with Dusty, but if you're Dory Funk Jr you're jobbing to Kevin Sullivan. By 87, your options as a 70s star unless you were Dusty, Flair, Dick Murdoch or Terry Funk, it seems to me, was either to be job fodder in the big two, try to work Japan, or eke out a living working for Verne Gange and probably tagging with Baron von Raschke in the AWA or possibly go to USWA for a cup of coffee.

 

I'm not sure what the WWF could've done better with the former over-the-hill 70s stars they had on staff. Pedro Morales was still popular with some old school fans in the Northeast, so he was kept pretty strong in matches in that region. Jerry Valiant was always a very good worker, & still was in 84-85 as a jobber, but with the WWF typically pushing around 30-40 guys at a time during their national expansion drive, older guys who didn't have "the look" or any sort of positive momentum within the wrestling industry at the time were not likely to have a top spot on the card. Butcher Vachon is a very good example of a former star turned jobber in New York for a good, steady, very goody payday. He'd get squashed on TV in two minutes. Yet, he also got a featured spot on TNT with his wedding, & this was going down the same time his brother the Mad Dog - who is older - was wrestling main events for the WWF in the Midwest. Crusher got some plum spots in his old territory, too. Tony Garea & Rene Goulet, two former 70s stars, became jobbers & then got plum gigs as road agents. SD Jones continued to have a good win-loss record on the house show circuit [better than all jobbers] as late as 1987, & his LJN figure was reportedly quite popular. As for Rocky Johnson, the guy was given a title & a big push & basically pissed it away, no fault of McMahon's.

 

I'm not a fan of McMahon, but I can't see where he ever treated former 70s stars "shabby."

 

Either way, unless you're someone who has mainevented Wrestlemania, times are tough when you are a wrestler the wrong side of 40. But who was it tougher for? The 70s guys in the late 80s or the 80s guys in the late 90s?

 

Which one would you rather have been from a professional and a money standpoint? Would you rather be an Ivan Putski / Pedro Morales / Ivan Koloff in 87 or a Ricky Morton or Tommy Rogers or even a Rick Martel in 97? Reasoning is encouraged.

Reasoning encouraged? Okay. I'd rather be getting a ridiculously fat guaranteed contract with WCW in 97. Period.

[JerryvonKramer]

Glad you finally made it here killabee.

 

25.11.1987

Iron Mike Sharpe defeats Ivan Putski

WWF House Show @ Civic Center in Providence, Rhode Island, USA

 

However, you are right, Putski was at least 4-0 over Sharpe when that happened.

 

Here are some Putski matches from 85 according to Cagematch -- I'm highlighting his losses to lower card wrestlers here:

 

27.11.1985

Terry Gibbs defeats Ivan Putski

WWF House Show @ Denver, Colorado, USA

 

22.09.1985

The Missing Link defeats Ivan Putski

WWF House Show @ Civic Center in Beaumont, Texas, USA

 

16.09.1985

The Missing Link defeats Ivan Putski

WWF House Show @ Convention Center in Fresno, California, USA

 

27.05.1985

Jim Neidhart defeats Ivan Putski by Count Out

WWF House Show @ West Palm Beach, Florida, USA

 

20.05.1985

Jim Neidhart defeats Ivan Putski

WWF on MSG Network @ Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York, US

 

But in general, you are right, he has a lot of wins in 85 over Buddy Rose, Jerry Valiant, Mike Sharpe, Rene Goulet, Moondog Spot, Butcher Vachon, Matt Borne, Johnny V, Bob Orton, Bret Hart, and even in one match Jesse Ventura.

 

Putski it seems was a bad example for this thread since in 85 he was pretty solidly in the midcard.

[killabee]

Glad you finally made it here killabee.

 

25.11.1987

Iron Mike Sharpe defeats Ivan Putski

WWF House Show @ Civic Center in Providence, Rhode Island, USA

 

However, you are right, Putski was at least 4-0 over Sharpe when that happened.

 

Here are some Putski matches from 85 according to Cagematch -- I'm highlighting his losses to lower card wrestlers here:

 

27.11.1985

Terry Gibbs defeats Ivan Putski

WWF House Show @ Denver, Colorado, USA

 

22.09.1985

The Missing Link defeats Ivan Putski

WWF House Show @ Civic Center in Beaumont, Texas, USA

 

16.09.1985

The Missing Link defeats Ivan Putski

WWF House Show @ Convention Center in Fresno, California, USA

 

27.05.1985

Jim Neidhart defeats Ivan Putski by Count Out

WWF House Show @ West Palm Beach, Florida, USA

 

20.05.1985

Jim Neidhart defeats Ivan Putski

WWF on MSG Network @ Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York, US

 

But in general, you are right, he has a lot of wins in 85 over Buddy Rose, Jerry Valiant, Mike Sharpe, Rene Goulet, Moondog Spot, Butcher Vachon, Matt Borne, Johnny V, Bob Orton, Bret Hart, and even in one match Jesse Ventura.

 

Putski it seems was a bad example for this thread since in 85 he was pretty solidly in the midcard.

Gibbs & Sharpe going over Putski cleanly? I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility, maybe Putski was a cooperative guy, but I suspect these were probably disqualification or count out wins, you know, Putski is angry & throws the ref out of the way to get his hands on Sharpe, Putski catches Gibbs in a full nelson from the wrong side of the ring apron... seems more likely than either of these guys going over, Gibbs wasn't even typically getting victories over guys like Jones & Lanny Poffo.

 

As for pre-expansion stars who McMahon could've used better from 84 thru 87, I'd pick the Moondogs. They were getting squashed on TV all the time, & mostly taking losses on the house show circuit. That just didn't make much sense to me. I don't think they were deserving of a big push during this time period, but they shouldn't have been losing squashes on TV, they should've been winning them, destroying jobbers on TV. That way, when they'd be on the circuit taking clean losses to babyface teams like the Killer Bees, the Bulldogs, the US Express, the Rougeaus, it would've meant something. By late 84, if a fan saw a Moondog in the ring against a pushed baby, he knew the Moondog was going down.

 

I think McMahon could've squeezed three years or so out of them like this before he started having them squashed on TV.

[khawk20]

Gibbs & Sharpe going over Putski cleanly? I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility, maybe Putski was a cooperative guy, but I suspect these were probably disqualification or count out wins, you know, Putski is angry & throws the ref out of the way to get his hands on Sharpe, Putski catches Gibbs in a full nelson from the wrong side of the ring apron... seems more likely than either of these guys going over, Gibbs wasn't even typically getting victories over guys like Jones & Lanny Poffo.

From Graham Cawthon's History of WWE site:

 

WWF @ Denver, CO - November 27, 1985 (10,000)

Dan Spivey pinned Barry O

King Tonga pinned Steve Lombardi

Pedro Morales pinned Alexis Smirnoff

Jesse Ventura defeated Uncle Elmer via disqualification

Terry Gibbs pinned Ivan Putski

Ricky Steamboat defeated Don Muraco via disqualification

WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan (w/ Mr. T) pinned Terry Funk at 9:39

 

Graham didn't have a card on the 25th for a Providence show.