Things guys that you like do that you hate

[soup23]

Thinking about this topic more, I think lucha guys in a lot of ways are less prominent to having these patterns. I am a pretty big novice in lucha so maybe someone else can chime in, but I can't think of many instances where someone like Dandy, Casas, or Panther do little things in almost every match that sort of annoy me like Flair and even Lawler and Funk do. Part of this may be the concept of mostly trios matches where there workload is reduced and even lack of footage but on the surface it just doesn't seem as prevalent to me.

Lucha is huge on schtick especially in trios, but just as there are multiple ways to work a trios match, the best workers have multiple routines. The Brazos and Infernales are good examples of this. Casas, Dandy, Panther, Santo etc. are all great workers, but they basically wrestled the same match again and again depending on the stip. Most of the time there's a comfort in that as Jerry alluded to, but El Hijo del Santo, in particular, is one of the most repetitive workers of all time.

 

Not arguing that lucha doesn't have sctick. Just that the schtick or familar spots they do doesn't annoy me or seem really illogical like the Flair flip does to me. Santo was actually the guy I thought might be the closest to what the topic is saying because I think in many of his matches, he doesn't sell enough for his opponent but I probably haven't seen enough of him to make a full hypothesis.

[Matt D]

I hate the Heavenly Bodies move where they assist a ddt with a clothesline.

[ButchReedMark]

It's very hard to criticise Rey's 619 once you've seen anyone else perform it.

Dunno John, I thought Daniel Bryan did a decent job of it in All Star.

[Matt D]

The whole thing with the 619 isn't the actual 619 but the set ups. When you actually watch Rey's matches, you see that his entire gameplan is to get his opponents into that position. It's strategy, not powerbombing kidman or whatever. He has matches built around that.

[El-P]

The whole thing with the 619 isn't the actual 619 but the set ups. When you actually watch Rey's matches, you see that his entire gameplan is to get his opponents into that position. It's strategy, not powerbombing kidman or whatever. He has matches built around that.

Pretty much. Which is why I can't stand WWE's Rey. Because everything revolves around that stupid spot.

[Russellmania]

I love the 619 precisely b/c he always seems to be setting that spot up and it makes me feel like I'm watching a guy who has honed his flying headscissors and other moves to such an exact science that he can put guys exactly where he wants with them.

[Childs]

It's just nonsense to say all of his WWE work is built around that spot. His selling, bumping and teasing of comebacks -- all top-notch -- aren't built around it. His finishing runs are often built around setting it up, but isn't that what you're supposed to do with a finisher?

[Matt D]

I tend to agree though I do admit that a lot of his early match work has teases and attempts but I do find them logical enough, and clever.

[El-P]

It's his finisher, hence his entire work is building to the point he'll use the fucking stupid 619. So I can't enjoy very much all other aspect of what he's putting together because I know in the end it's gonna be all about setting up that spot that I can't stand. Really annoys me. Oh, the other thing that annoys me about Rey in WWE is bouncing off the second rope. Makes him look like a midget. I realize the WWE rings are bigger than the WCW ones, but still, I always thought he looked like a lucha midget doing it, and it hurt the perception of him being a big star. He's like the fantastic kid of the block rather than the über masked star hero he should have been. Of course he got his first push to the top because Eddie had died. Oh, man I should stop here, I think my answer to the question asked in this thread is simply "Rey in the WWE" after all.

[Dylan Waco]

It's actually not his finisher. I'm sure it's happened, but offhand I can't recall any case where he pinned someone immediately after it.

[El-P]

Well, I'm not the one who said it was his finisher. But anyway, it's his big signature spot, so you get my drift.

[Loss]

It's his finisher, hence his entire work is building to the point he'll use the fucking stupid 619. So I can't enjoy very much all other aspect of what he's putting together because I know in the end it's gonna be all about setting up that spot that I can't stand. Really annoys me. Oh, the other thing that annoys me about Rey in WWE is bouncing off the second rope. Makes him look like a midget. I realize the WWE rings are bigger than the WCW ones, but still, I always thought he looked like a lucha midget doing it, and it hurt the perception of him being a big star. He's like the fantastic kid of the block rather than the über masked star hero he should have been. Of course he got his first push to the top because Eddie had died. Oh, man I should stop here, I think my answer to the question asked in this thread is simply "Rey in the WWE" after all.

Rey is not over in spite of his size. Rey is over because of his size. Spots like that only help make that even more true.

[El-P]

I'm not convinced at all.

[NintendoLogic]

I'd say that all spots like the 619 and the People's Elbow that require the opponent to be incapacitated for a ridiculous amount of time kind of suck, even though they don't really bother me in practice.

[Tim Evans]

Super Astro's 619 is is way better than Rey's.

 

Loss mentioned this in the 1990 year book forum but I really hate most of Jerry Lawler's heel matches that revolve around the chain. It worked for the Embry match on the Texas set but not the Kerry Von Erich indy matches or most of his 1990 heel matches.

[ohtani's jacket]

Not arguing that lucha doesn't have sctick. Just that the schtick or familar spots they do doesn't annoy me or seem really illogical like the Flair flip does to me. Santo was actually the guy I thought might be the closest to what the topic is saying because I think in many of his matches, he doesn't sell enough for his opponent but I probably haven't seen enough of him to make a full hypothesis.

Maybe, but one of the biggest gripes about lucha is that it's illogical and it's full of exaggerated, theatrical bumping. Fans accept it as part and parcel of lucha and see it as both comforting and amusing, but US wrestling gets held up to a different light. Different expectations, I suppose.

[Loss]

While we're talking about Santo, he occasionally will stand out in a big way, but he is often content to hide in plain sight in trios matches.

[ohtani's jacket]

It's his finisher, hence his entire work is building to the point he'll use the fucking stupid 619. So I can't enjoy very much all other aspect of what he's putting together because I know in the end it's gonna be all about setting up that spot that I can't stand. Really annoys me. Oh, the other thing that annoys me about Rey in WWE is bouncing off the second rope. Makes him look like a midget. I realize the WWE rings are bigger than the WCW ones, but still, I always thought he looked like a lucha midget doing it, and it hurt the perception of him being a big star. He's like the fantastic kid of the block rather than the über masked star hero he should have been. Of course he got his first push to the top because Eddie had died. Oh, man I should stop here, I think my answer to the question asked in this thread is simply "Rey in the WWE" after all.

Rey in the WWE is so much better than Rey in WCW or AAA it's not even funny and I don't even like the spots he does or Michael Cole's god awful commentary about the HEART AND SOUL OF REY MYSTERIO! He just had flat out better matches.

[ohtani's jacket]

While we're talking about Santo, he occasionally will stand out in a big way, but he is often content to hide in plain sight in trios matches.

That's true of most lucha workers, though. The majority of lucha trios aren't workrate trios matches where everyone stands out. Usually there's a central feud and the other guys are window dressing or the match is flat because they're mailing it in or taking it easy that night. What's more, Santo is a technico which means he has little schtick to work comedy all match like a Satanico or Emilio or Fuerza. With Santo, it's more about the same moves, the same match patterns and the same performances in singles matches. Often the matches are excellent, but you can usually call what Santo is going to do in the ring.

[S.L.L.]

It's actually not his finisher. I'm sure it's happened, but offhand I can't recall any case where he pinned someone immediately after it.

His finisher is "whatever he does after the 619 this week", so it's ultimately besides the point.

[Gregor]

Super Astro's 619 is is way better than Rey's.

Agreed, but did Super Astro ever use his as an offensive move? I feel like it'd be unfair to hold Rey to the same standard because he can't go as hard and fast as possible with it without risking kicking the other guy's head in.

 

I like a lot of 1990s WWF, and I don't know why the spot where one guy jumps from the second turnbuckle onto the other guy's outstretched foot had the longevity that it did.

[goodhelmet]

5523425[/url]']

5523314[/url]' date='Dec 20 2012, 05:25 PM']It's actually not his finisher. I'm sure it's happened, but offhand I can't recall any case where he pinned someone immediately after it.

His finisher is "whatever he does after the 619 this week", so it's ultimately besides the point.

 

I don't know if you are criticizing the multiple finishers or praising it but that is one of the things I love about WWE Rey.

[Loss]

I personally don't care for the 619 at all for the same reasons I don't really like the stinkface -- it's not really a natural way for wrestlers to lay and sell. You'd never see a wrestler sell while laying on the ropes during a John Cena match, for example. It doesn't take anything away from Rey for me. I can hate the 619 and love Rey.

[Matt D]

Super Astro's 619 is is way better than Rey's.

Agreed, but did Super Astro ever use his as an offensive move? I feel like it'd be unfair to hold Rey to the same standard because he can't go as hard and fast as possible with it without risking kicking the other guy's head in.

 

I like a lot of 1990s WWF, and I don't know why the spot where one guy jumps from the second turnbuckle onto the other guy's outstretched foot had the longevity that it did.

 

It was a near religious moment when I saw a match in 89 where Tully actually hit a second rope axe-handle onto a prone guy.

[S.L.L.]

5523425[/url]']

5523314[/url]' date='Dec 20 2012, 05:25 PM']It's actually not his finisher. I'm sure it's happened, but offhand I can't recall any case where he pinned someone immediately after it.

His finisher is "whatever he does after the 619 this week", so it's ultimately besides the point.

 

I don't know if you are criticizing the multiple finishers or praising it but that is one of the things I love about WWE Rey.

 

It wasn't a value judgement, just a statement of fact. Though, if I were to make a value judgement, I'd say I like it, too. It's just kind of an unusual way to go about things. Off the top of my head, I don't know if it's an approach ever done before Rey, or after, for that matter. But it is what it is, and it works or me.