2013 Royal Rumble Thread

[jdw]

On Punk/Rock (heh!)...I had a friend over who's an old-school wrestling fan, but has lapsed for quite a few years. When Rock asked that the match continue, he said "I've got chills!"

 

Also, a guy I work with got the Rumble for his son who's 6. He said the kid was in tears when Punk originally won, then jumping for joy when Rock won.

 

I have some problems with the finish, too. But I'd say they nailed it with their target audience.

Exactly. Which is largely what I'm walking through above: the shit was written for your average current WWE Fan and your average Attitude Era Fan. It had an internal logic for both that was far beyond simply Russo-style throwing shit at the wall. It actually was pretty simple, hit those simple marks in the script, and gave the fans what they wanted in each instance after Punk fucked over Rock. Pretty well done.

 

John

[Johnny Sorrow]

The HOF ceremony is taking place in MSG, which last I checked is still in New York. Plus NYC has more of a cache than billing your top event as just in New Jersey. That's why the Giants and Jets don't bill themselves from Jersey and no one ever accused them of disrespect.

Oh, trust me. Speaking as someone from Jersey, lots and lots of people continue to be angry that the Giants and Jets play in Jersey and are still billed from NYC. I was goofing around with my post there, and I really don't care. But believe me, there's a ton of resentment in Jersey about the football teams.

[jpchicago23]

It's just like the Rays playing in st Pete. No ones gonna claim they're the st Pete rays

[anarchistxx]

Can't believe the hate the finish/restart is getting. It was not only fine but it also made sense. I thought it came across pretty well, even if the final pin seemed a bit rushed and fell flat. JDW explained it all perfectly. For all the godawful finishes in the history of US I can't believe someone would single this out as especially bad. The crowd ate it up.

 

The Rock looked like a badass, desperate for a restart, fighting through the pain to finally get his hands on the belt. Vince looked like a man coming through on his promise to deliver justice. The Shield looked strong putting down the star attraction for five minutes. The slimy heel Punk gets his comeuppance for months of clinging onto his belt through cheating and lying.

 

Jesus, there were far worse things on that very PPV than the finish. Justice was served, the uber face fought the odds and foiled the cheating of the dastardly heels for a happy ending. That's just wrestling for the past fifty years, no?

[Johnny Sorrow]

This got a laugh out of me.

 

[Ditch]

This got a laugh out of me.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will spend endless amounts of time bitching about a wrestling product, but because it's wrestling on TV they can't stay away.

 

What they CAN do, however, is decide not buy PPVs. See: TNA.

[Johnny Sorrow]

This got a laugh out of me.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will spend endless amounts of time bitching about a wrestling product, but because it's wrestling on TV they can't stay away.

 

What they CAN do, however, is decide not buy PPVs. See: TNA.

 

I think the funniest thing in that cartoon is the t-shirt in the last panel.

[Marty]

This got a laugh out of me.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will spend endless amounts of time bitching about a wrestling product, but because it's wrestling on TV they can't stay away.

 

What they CAN do, however, is decide not buy PPVs. See: TNA.

 

May be funnier than the cartoon:

 

At least it wasn't one of Will's comps that he broke in anger.

[Ricky Jackson]

That is new greatest thing ever.

[Hollinger.]

My problem with the finish was that the elbow wasn't set up well. It's never been a flash win kinda move, it's always been something that Rock used to put someone away after he'd been beating them. For him to put Punk away with it after getting the shit kicked out of him, then set up with just a spinebuster counter didn't feel right. Everything about the follow up on RAW was good, so I can't complain, it just felt uneven. Replace the spinebuster with a Rock Bottom, so the Elbow looks more like Rock showing Punk up after laying him out and it makes more sense. That's my opinion.

[Kostka]

This got a laugh out of me.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will spend endless amounts of time bitching about a wrestling product, but because it's wrestling on TV they can't stay away.

 

What they CAN do, however, is decide not buy PPVs. See: TNA.

 

May be funnier than the cartoon:

 

At least it wasn't one of Will's comps that he broke in anger.

 

Wow. I think it's time for a new boyfriend. That shit is pathetic.

[ohtani's jacket]

My problem with the finish was that the elbow wasn't set up well. It's never been a flash win kinda move, it's always been something that Rock used to put someone away after he'd been beating them. For him to put Punk away with it after getting the shit kicked out of him, then set up with just a spinebuster counter didn't feel right. Everything about the follow up on RAW was good, so I can't complain, it just felt uneven. Replace the spinebuster with a Rock Bottom, so the Elbow looks more like Rock showing Punk up after laying him out and it makes more sense. That's my opinion.

Totally agree. The people's elbow from a spine buster was a weird finish and Punk looked stupid lying there with his eyes shut.

[jdw]

Shoemaker at Grantland:

 

The WWE Since SummerSlam: Was It All a Dream?

 

Vince said that the video revealing Heyman's duplicity came from an anonymous source. It doesn't matter if the source is ever revealed — whether it's Maddox or a conscience-stricken cameraman — because the real source of that video is Vince, who has decided to rewrite history. When he walked onto the stage in the waning moments of the Rumble and restarted the Punk-Rock match that Punk had seemingly won, Vince wasn't just interrupting the card. He was interrupting the last five months of story line. He wasn't restarting one match, he was resetting the playing field.

Or, perhaps...

 

The re-start of the match is the payoff of Punk happily having The Shield save his title reign several times over, only for it to blow up in the end. That is what happens to heels in the end: their evil plots get foiled.

 

John

[NintendoLogic]

It's the Freudian notion that dreams are unconscious wish fulfillment, except the dreamers are the meta-fans and reality belongs to Vince.

That's where I stopped reading. Shoemaker is even more insufferable than usual in that piece.

[blueminister]

If you're writing about wrestling and find yourself using terms like "Freudian" and "meta" in earnest you should probably stop.

[WingedEagle]

It's the Freudian notion that dreams are unconscious wish fulfillment, except the dreamers are the meta-fans and reality belongs to Vince.

That's where I stopped reading. Shoemaker is even more insufferable than usual in that piece.

 

Unclear to me whether he or the guy on youtube who freaked when Punk lost gives wrestling fans a worse name. Wouldn't want anyone I know to be exposed to either.

[Ricky Jackson]

To be fair, if you read the whole article it is a critique of Vince's alleged habit of changing things on the fly, scrapping months of storyline development on a sudden whim, and reverting to the status quo, and not really another attempt by Shoemaker at forcing a bullshit postmodern interpretation of WWE, at least not like his "Reality Era" obsession. His conclusion is:

 

This is still Vince's WWE. I mean, did you really think everything had changed? That WWE was suddenly the company you'd always hoped it would be? Wake up, guys.

He's a big Punk fan, a Bryan fan, a fan of the new, and basically just another of those frustrated wrestling fans who fantasize about revolutionary change on the level of the Monday Night Wars era, the last time wrestling was "cool" for many people. I have a friend who is like that and is a big fan of the Grantland stuff. He really loves wrestling, but it often seems like he needs to convince people that wrestling is really this cool art form that hipsters should appreciate alongside obscure "films" and indie bands. Hell, I'm guilty of wishing WWE would become relevant again. Be careful what you wish for, I guess...

 

Anyway, what I love about the article is that the first footnote is a link to the devastated Punk fan.

[Johnny Sorrow]

This got a laugh out of me.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will spend endless amounts of time bitching about a wrestling product, but because it's wrestling on TV they can't stay away.

 

What they CAN do, however, is decide not buy PPVs. See: TNA.

 

May be funnier than the cartoon:

 

At least it wasn't one of Will's comps that he broke in anger.

 

Wow. I think it's time for a new boyfriend. That shit is pathetic.

 

All I think is, "This guy has a girlfriend and I haven't had a long term relationship in years. I stink."

[evilclown]

To be fair, if you read the whole article it is a critique of Vince's alleged habit of changing things on the fly, scrapping months of storyline development on a sudden whim

But that's the OPPOSITE of what happened here. This is Vince sticking to what I'd imagine to be a long term plan to bring his biggest stars face to face for the biggest show of the year. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to learn from anyone writing about wrestling who doesn't understand, at the most basic level, what wrestling is.

 

He really loves wrestling, but it often seems like he needs to convince people that wrestling is really this cool art form that hipsters should appreciate alongside obscure "films" and indie bands.

What's funny about these kinds of fans is just how misguided this is. In fact, historically, when wrestling has caught on with hipsters and Hollywood types it's typically been the product of very broad and over the top characters, whether it was Gorgeous George or Hulk Hogan. No one wants "serious business" wrestling except 30 year-old men who still collect comic books.

[jdw]

To be fair, if you read the whole article it is a critique of Vince's alleged habit of changing things on the fly, scrapping months of storyline development on a sudden whim

But that's the OPPOSITE of what happened here. This is Vince sticking to what I'd imagine to be a long term plan to bring his biggest stars face to face for the biggest show of the year. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to learn from anyone writing about wrestling who doesn't understand, at the most basic level, what wrestling is.

 

Exactly. Haven't we been talking for months about the plan being Punk-Rock at Rumble with Rock winning the title to take it to Mania? I think a lot of us were hoping the Punk would actually get to the Rumble with the title reign intact, and that it was cool as he got through each possible choke point of dropping it (even if for just a quick turn around), so things like retaining at Survivors was cool.

 

The Shield didn't change any of that. Instead, it actually firmed it up by given an excuse for Punk to retain the title and extend the reign over a pair of massively pushed faces (Cena and Ryback). That it hit the wall at the Rumble and backfired just when it looked to work again? That's the payoff.

 

Were people really expecting Punk + The Shield to go on an nWo roll over the WWE for another 12+ months where the faces keep getting fucked over to the point that the fans transition from just being pissed at the heel Punk and instead becoming tired of the same old screwjob happening over and over and over again?

[Dylan Waco]

Speaking for myself I've said multiple times that I had zero problem with Punk losing and in fact I believe he should have lost in a far more "clean" fashion with the context of the original match, with no run-in. I also don't think he should be getting a rematch at EC, though I understand the storyline rationale for it.

[shoe]

I haven't watched the show. I heard Jericho went 48 minutes at the Rumble. Meltzer on his podcast the plan is to turn Jericho to work Ryback at Wrestlemania to get Ryback where he was. If this is the case Jericho really is the Teflon man. In his last run he put everyone over.

[Ricky Jackson]

Overall, I wouldn't say Shoemaker is bitching in the article about Punk losing the title or the Mania booking plans as much as is he is arguing Vince took all of the interesting storyline developments of the past 5 months and tossed them out the window on Monday. Specifically, the reveal that the Shield and Maddox were in cahoots with Heyman and Punk all along. Personally, I was hoping Heyman and Punk were a red herring and that someone else was behind the Shield and Maddox, if only because by having the storyline go on for so long, doing the obvious reveal was a letdown. And the whole "turn off the camera--OK, I trust that it's off, now I can reveal my masterplan" bit was pretty lazy writing IMO.

[Mr Wrestling X]

The Rock winning the WWE Championship was the right thing to do, but only because WWE had teased it (and Rock has virtually promised it for months) as part of a long term storyline which began in the build-up to Wrestlemania XXVII.

 

I had no problems with The Rock winning the championship, but the execution of that win was completely fucking bonkers. First of all, The Rock should have gone over clean, no outside interference or screwy restarts, just a nice plain and simple one-on-one match with a clean finish. In classical wrestling fashion, the heel would finally get his comeuppance without his "safety net" (The Shield) to protect him. The match would be booked as being a much more closer contest than it was, in the sense that anybody could win (a'la Brock vs. Rock at Summerslam 2002). The rematch isn't necessary, but it gives The Rock something to do at Elimination Chamber, therefore I would have booked The Shield to run in following the match and beat down The Rock during his victory celebration. This would happen as CM Punk and Paul Heyman had gone backstage, further teasing their involvement with The Shield, but not yet confirming it.

 

This angle would then lead into Raw the following night, where Heyman's involvement with The Shield would be confirmed, along with The Rock giving CM Punk a rematch after it's revealed that Punk didn't know about Heyman's involvement with The Shield, along with Punk making a case to The Rock about how "close the contest was". It would be stressed that Punk has fired Heyman from his employ, and that leaves the potential for Punk to reaffirm himself as a heel by re-joining Heyman (and The Shield) at Elimination Chamber to regain the WWE Championship and screw The Rock out of his Wrestlemania rematch. Vince (in his Deus Ex Vince mode - as Shoemaker coined) would come out and threaten to strip Punk, but then "have a better idea" and book a triple threat for Wrestlemania between the three men (since Taker's Wrestlemania status is up in the air again). Fantasy booking aside, it looks like the triple threat might be going ahead anyway.

[jdw]

Speaking for myself I've said multiple times that I had zero problem with Punk losing and in fact I believe he should have lost in a far more "clean" fashion with the context of the original match, with no run-in. I also don't think he should be getting a rematch at EC, though I understand the storyline rationale for it.

If Punk-Rock did business, it might not be a bad idea for them to go to the well again. Who knows when Rock's next match will be after Mania, or how many there will be. Trying to cash in might not be bad business.

 

John