Wrestlemania 29 Thoughts

[JerryvonKramer]

Chaps, I've spent the last couple of weeks assiduously avoiding all WM-related coverage, results and so on. I have no idea what happened and am watching it now.

 

I'm about an hour in. This is the only "modern" show I watch every year and I thought for fun -- since I'm one of the most stubbornly and curmudgeonly anti-modern" fans here- -- I might "live blog" some thoughts as I watch.

 

Some thoughts so far:

 

- Michael Cole is horrible. Relentlessly bland. Lawler also might as well not be there. They are a very lifeless commentary team .... but I think I like JBL. He's understated, and a far cry from being someone like Ventura or Jim Cornette, but he's said some funny things and I liked him smashing on the Rey action figure.

 

- The first match, the six-man involving The Shield, felt like a bit of a mess to me. I didn't like Big Show playing FIP for all the time he did. There were meaningless high spots all over the shop, especially from Orton who bust out a slingshot suplex after less than 30 seconds. You could see the turn coming from even before the match started and it was badly telegraphed by the commentary team. It also felt like it lacked any real impact. I mean I haven't even been watching wrestling for almost a decade and it felt like "just another turn" from him.

 

- The "acknowledging history" trope is extremely noticable. Frequent comparisons between The Shield and The Freebirds and even the Horsemen and the NWO. Then later we even got a Ken Patera shout out. I think it's generally a good thing, even if from Cole's mouth is sounds incredibly shoehorned in and forced.

 

- I thought Henry vs. Ryback worked well. Henry felt a bit TOO slow and methodical at times, and the 9-count felt excessive, but I REALLY liked that finish and didn't see it coming. I liked the booking a lot there: Henry is bigger and stronger, he dominated his younger opponent who bit off more than he could chew. Great. The post-match I guess was necessary for Ryback not to be crushed by it.

 

- Tag title match was neither here nor there for me. A lot of very fake over-excited "and NEW world champions" type calls from Cole. I really dislike him, always have. Kane actually didn't look awful, which surprised me a bit. Nothing too offensive here but felt like a TV match.

 

I'm currently watching Jericho vs. "Fandango". More later.

[JerryvonKramer]

- Jericho vs. Fandango was silly. High spot. False finish. High spot. False finish. False Finish. What I'd expect of a modern WM match to be honest, except for the actual finish itself which was quite neat as a "big upset". Didn't feel like it had much impact though, shouldn't Jericho have been a bit more devestated about the loss? Is Pat Patterson back booking finishes by the way? They've been pretty good so far.

 

- They've done quite a good job of hyping Rock vs. Cena during this show, feels like a massive deal. Cena hype package was a lot better than the Rock hype package though.

 

- I like the fact they are using "Victory" as the theme track. Shit!! Puff Daddy's actually there! Well, I never. I was a big fan as a teenager and still think No Way Out is a good record. Bet that was cool to see for those who went. He's doing More Money More Problems now, this is a mini concert! Benjamins now! lol, what the fuck is going on? I'd have probably paid to see this to be honest. He's done a better job than Run DMC at Mania 5, ha ha.

 

Also, I think Diddy dropped the first ever reference in Wrestlemania history to The Kinks there when he mentions "Tears of a Clown" in the lyrics of the last song there.

 

- Dutch Mantell now. "Zeb Coulter". I can see what they've done here. Alberto Del Rio. Say what you want, this angle is quite "progressive" for wrestling.

 

- Now Dutch is on the mic. Proper heel heat first real time tonight so far. "Something called Yiddish" ha ha ha ha. Is it wrong that I'm digging this? This is some proper heeling here and good -- if that's what it takes to get a rise from the crowd, why not? It's what people should be booing in 2013.

 

- That's got me reasonably pumped to see this match. Although it'd be nice if our Mexican friend here wasn't being billed like the second coming of El Matador. Couldn't he just be like, a normal bloke who happens to be Mexican? Did it have to be his gimmick? AND he's the world champ? Wow. Ok, let's go.

 

- Is that a fat Pee Wee Herman with Del Rio there with the crutches? Ha ha

 

- I liked Del Rio taking a moment to stamp on Zeb Coulter's hand. This match is being worked at a slower pace than some of the others so far this evening and that's not a bad thing. Still a lot of random bombs all over the place though but not as bad as most of the matches so far. Some matwork mixed in too, and this one feels like it's coming from another promotion or something. Swagger keeps going back to the ankle. I like the fact that Mantell is basically an old-school manager here, good. Cross armbreaker! And a submission.

 

I liked that. Thought it was perfectly solid.

[ohtani's jacket]

The Kinks song was Death of a Clown. Smokey Robinson and the Miracles did Tears of a Clown.

[JerryvonKramer]

- If Michael Cole says "Wrestlemania moment" one more time I'm going to stick my hand through my TV back in time and choke him out. For fuck's sake. "Will this be his wrestlemania moment?!" Shut the fuck up already.

 

- Bit of Punk vs. Taker build now. The Punk Bearer promos feel cheap and disrespectful. Not needed. Don't think even for a milisecond that Punk has a hope in hell of ending the streak. There is no suspense here. Horrible stuff.

 

- More music concert stuff now? Fuck this, I'm going have to fast-forward. Oh, Punk is coming out during it. I don't like this Paul Bearer stuff, it's tasteless in the extreme. Although Heyman is almost as fat as Bearer was at one stage now. This entrance is taking forever, maybe I should have fast-forwarded.

 

- Undertaker's entrance feels like a big deal. For some reason I keep having flash backs to Royal Rumble 94 for though. Remember vs. Yokozuna when it all went black? This match is taking FOREVER to start. And I have no excitement for it at all. Christ almighty, it's 2 minutes later now and this still hasn't started. This looks like it's going to be a pure Monster vs. Weasel sort of match, seems like it should be. If ever anyone needs to "play the bitch" it's Punk in this match right here. Doing a good job so far. Some decent stiffness in Taker's punches too. Nice post shot. One thing I can't help but notice here is that all night the ref has been VERY insistent on maintaining the 10-count when they go outside, but not here. He hasn't done it. Just a tiny lack of consistency. Been a good pounding on Punk by Taker so far. Nice extended shine.

 

Taker goes for his old rope-walk but gets caught, nice transition. And now Punk is doing the rope walk, awesome! This does feel like one of the better matches so far. I mean I don't like the Paul Bearer thing but Punk is doing a great job of being a disrespectful little prick here. This stretch sequence has been good. Neckbreaker. Focusing on the shoulder now. Taker comes back, just a hope spot. Swinging neckbreaker from Punk. And now a chinlock to take the crowd down and back up again. Good stuff, smartly worked.

 

Snap suplex from Taker. And now Punk tries the rope walk, but this time gets caught -- good payoff. Taker grabs Heyman, but Punk's there. NO! For a second there I thought it was 1988 and that might have been the finish. Punk hits the Randy Savage elbow, 2 count. Chokeslam! Obvious 2 count. But these false finishes are working because they've built well to them.

 

Big elbow from the top to the Spanish announce table! And a 9-count! See, it would have been good earlier if we'd had a countout finish for that to feel like a real possibility. Maybe during the Henry-Ryback match. Vice grip from Punk now, Tombstone! NO!! Hmmm, that's a lot of false finishes now. I'll admit that I thought that was it though.

 

Slugfest. Ref bump! And Taker's leg is still hurt from the announce table spot. My god, urn to the back of the head! Is this it? NO! lol

 

I've been enjoying this a lot more than the HBK match from a few years back. Counter, counter, counter, tombstone! Got to be it. YES.

 

I dunno, call me a mark, but I thought that was great. Match of the night so far.

[JerryvonKramer]

The Kinks song was Death of a Clown. Smokey Robinson and the Miracles did Tears of a Clown.

lol, of course. Thought it would be odd for Diddy to reference them. Dave Davies wrote and sung that one.

[JerryvonKramer]

- I recognise that boring droning voice, it's our old friend Hunter. Amazing how he hasn't developed as a promo at all in 10 years. So Heyman is involved in this angle too? Ok. "The winner of the match gets your wife"?? This is 1988! That surely can't be the stip. Ridiculous. Oh right, career on the line, no DQ, blah blah, fine.

 

- Shawn Michaels is here. Crowd is not amped as I'd have expected for him, maybe they could turn the music down a bit so I could hear them properly, but seems like a muted reaction. HBK looks like a woman who has had a sex change to become a man. What happened to him? He's so gaunt.

 

- So basically I want Brock to win this for no other reason than that I don't like HHH much and would like him to retire. Wow, nice D&Dish entrance from Hunter. He's not doing the water any more then, just ice now. Oh he is still doing the water. So what's weird here is that after the Punk vs. Taker match, THIS match feels like your equivalent of your nothing Blue Blazer vs. Mr. Perfect sort of deal. Yet it's Brock vs. HHH, weird. Maybe they need to bring back more "nothing" filler matches of that calibre. Y'know Barbarian vs. Jim Duggan sort of match. Crowd seems quiet for what should be a bigger deal.

 

Brock is kicking the shit out of HHH and shouting a lot. First 5 minutes and for whatever reason I'm not feeling it. Another 5 minutes pass and something just isn't clicking here. Crowd is dead. Calls of "how gutsy is HHH?" ring hollow.

 

German suplex from Brock. Spinebuster from HHH to no reaction. Honestly, you'll laugh at me but this is exactly what Duggan vs. Barbarian was for. The crowd is burnt out after a big match, and this is meant to be another big match. They need a restbite.

 

Pedegree! Already? I don't feel like the match has got to that point yet. These false finishes are having less and less impact and the calls of "there goes a career" feel forced. Something about this match isn't working. Crowd just don't seem to care at all about HHH's comebacks, he's not over is he?

 

This is really dragging now. Submission hold by HHH. Ow, that looked like it hurt, slam on the steel steps. This "will he tap?" business looks far too contrived for my tastes. DDT on the steps. Come on, end this now. Here we go, the sledgehammer of doom. Now the crowd's woken up. Pedigree on the steps!

 

Honestly, I didn't enjoy that match at all. Thought it was crap. It's going to be interesting reading this thread after making my comments here. Have no idea how these matches have been received.

[JerryvonKramer]

- Nice to see The Fink do the HoF intro. Again, they played the music far too loud for me to get a sense of the crowd reactions. I'm going to have to grill Chad about this on the next podcast. Just impossible to tell.

 

- 80, 676 -- big big crowd. Does that unofficially beat Mania 3?

 

- It's John Cena! Already? This is it? Main event time? Wow, that's a short card. Again music far far too loud to hear how the crowd is reacting. It's a bit annoying. His entrance feels really sudden and anti-climactic here. Weird. Now The Rock. Yeah! Get down like it's 2000 mofos. Always liked this theme. Crowd seems to be cheering Rock more than Cena.

 

This doesn't feel as big time as I thought it would for some reason. Anyway, let's go, let's go. Headlock! Hiptoss. I've been thinking about this and surely Cena can't lose this match, I mean he'd be the ultimate choker. Has to go over surely, no?

 

Slowish start here. Cena is doing a lot of "Street Fighter 2" style fighting stances. I wish Rock had thicker eyebrows, he looks like some mates have pulled a prank on him while he was sleeping and shaved them off. Chinlock! Strangely subdued start to this match. This is telling me that this is going to go LONG.

 

Crowd oddly quiet here. Why are they being so quiet? This is Rock vs. Cena dammit, wake up! Seems like Cena's being booed a fair bit, but they are not really popping too big for Rock's offense either. Sharpshooter! Already? Ok. Good strength to counter -- is that a pump-handle slam? I feel like I just don't understand the crowd dynamics when it comes to Cena, feels "complex".

 

Rock bottom attempt, countered. STF. Already? Ok. ... doesn't have it synced in properly. Spinebuster from Rock. Another STF now, he's got it properly this time.

 

Big "Cena sucks" chant. Rock bottom! This match is just a total mess. What the fuck is going on? It feels really disjointed. Rock is just walking about. Another bomb from Cena now. 2 count.

 

I feel like this event has fizzled a bit since the Taker vs. Punk match, it was like a peak from which the crowd still hasn't recovered.

 

Another spinebuster. People's elbow now? Yes, and it looked awkward. I'm pretty disappointed by this. Feels like the commentary team tapped out a while ago too.

 

There's not enough real intensity here to justify the drama we're meant to be experiencing. Too much aimlessness followed by finish attempts, counters, actual finishers and false finishes. The match went into all that stuff far far far too early. Where's the build??!

 

More standing about from The Rock. This is a weird match. Another people's elbow now? For fuck's sake, what's going on? Cena counters! 2 only.

 

This isn't good. It's so stop. Start. Finisher. Counter. False finish. Rinse. Repeat. Stand about. Rinse. Repeat.

 

Slugfest now and at least the crowd are popping. Cena hits the Rock Bottom now. 2. Yawwwnnnnn.

 

This is really frustrating. It's not a match. It's just a series of video game replays. What the fuck is this meant to be? Cena's standing about now. He's just standing there.

 

Oh, people's elbow from him now. It's a sucker move, now Rock Bottom from Rock. 2 count. FOR FUCK'S SAKE THIS IS STUPID.

 

I couldn't dislike this match more. It's fucking awful. This isn't a match. Finish attempt. Counter. Finish attempt. Counter. Finish attempt. Counter. DDT! He's STANDING THERE WATCING NOW.

 

And he's still standing there.

 

And he's still standing there.

 

Rock bottom attempt! Counter! And Cena gets the win ...

 

One of the worst main events in Wrestlemania history. Seriously, what the fucking fuck was that?

 

----------------

 

Time for my Where the Big Boys Play style awards:

 

Match of the night: Taker vs. Punk

 

MVP: Punk

 

Billie Graham award: The Rock. Just woeful stuff from him. What's all the standing around about?

 

Pretty underwhelming Wrestlemania with one match I'd give **** to (Punk vs. Taker) and another I'd give about ***1/2 to (Del Rio vs. Swagger).

 

I'd go as far as to say that Cena vs. Rock is a DUD. HHH vs. Brock is a DUD. The six-man about a **. What else was there? Ummm ... oh the tag titles: 1/2*. Henry vs. Ryback about a **3/4. Have I missed anything ... Jericho vs. Fandango, DUD -- actually, no, it was about a *1/2.

[JerryvonKramer]

Now for the really interesting bit where I go back and read this thread.

[BrickHithouse]

- 80, 676 -- big big crowd. Does that unofficially beat Mania 3?

No!

 

The official/unofficial 78k for WM3 is total bullshit.

 

Leaning against purchasing 29 after reading thru this thread, but there will probably be no other way to get the HOF stuff. Wish they'd put it out on a separate release.

[JerryvonKramer]

That didn't take as long as I thought it would to read through. 14 pages, but most of them of 1 and 2 line posts.

 

I always feel reasonably reassured when my broad reaction is more or less in line with the consensus. I do the same thing with 80s DVDR match threads (i.e. don't read them until after I've written out my thoughts).

 

A few little comments though:

 

- Everyone picked out the same match of the night, and I'm glad of that. I had this foreboding feeling after going so high on it that everyone else might have been cynical, so I'm glad everyone else thought it was good too. For me, it was A LOT better than the HBK matches, which I don't like at all. The big difference with this Punk match is that they built to the finishes and false finishes so when they came they had a real impact. Also, Punk was actively working against the fact that you just knew he was going to lose, but yet during the match he does enough to make you forget about that (at least temporarily). I was pretty non-plussed by the build package, so he was actually able to turn me around AND get me emotionally invested into it. Best of the big "streak" matches I've seen from recent years. I really thought it was good.

 

- Everyone hated on the HHH match, as I expected they would, but no one seems to have hated the main event quite as much as I have. I find that interesting, are we now so desensitized to the whole finish-false finish-rinse-repeat thing that we expect it? I really hate that current WWE big match formula but this match is the worst ever example I've seen of it because ... well, they start doing it after five fucking minutes.

 

Literally that match consists of a headlock, a hiptoss, a chin lock and then 25 minutes of false finishes and standing around as if the crowd should be invested in this big drama. It's one of the worst Wrestlemania main events I can think of. Say what you want about Andre vs. Hogan, at least they bloody built to the body slam. Rock was just absolutely terrible in that match. Honestly, that was the worst shit I can remember seeing. I'm a little surprised more people haven't slammed it harder. I mean the HHH match was shit too, but you've got to expect that, the main event has got to be the bigger disappointment.

 

- People seem higher on that 6-man opener and especially on Jericho vs. Fandango than I am. I don't really know why for the latter. Felt awkward and they didn't play up the idea of a big upset enough. Felt like a TV match.

 

- People are generally lower on the Del Rio vs. Swagger match. People don't seem to like Swagger. I thought it felt like a match from another promotion on a different card. I mean you had actual matwork, reversals and counters that didn't immediately transition into false finishes, not quite so many random bombs (the tag title match and the opener were bad for that). Felt solid.

 

---------------

 

So this is the bit every year where I decide if I'm going to "come back" and watch WWE again or sit out until next year. Hello New Orleans.

[Ricky Jackson]

You should watch Raw from the night after Mania, Jerry. Way more fun. Your countrymen take over the crowd and turn it into a soccer match atmosphere.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Big Show didn't turn. He was a heel teaming with the faces to take on a mutual foe. And the only reason he didn't help Orton was because Orton tried to steal his thunder.

[goodhelmet]

- Undertaker's entrance feels like a big deal. For some reason I keep having flash backs to Royal Rumble 94 for though. Remember vs. Yokozuna when it all went black? This match is taking FOREVER to start. And I have no excitement for it at all. Christ almighty, it's 2 minutes later now and this still hasn't started. This looks like it's going to be a pure Monster vs. Weasel sort of match, seems like it should be. If ever anyone needs to "play the bitch" it's Punk in this match right here.

Fun fact I haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet but the zombie hands were the NXT guys so there you go... Chris Hero and PAC make their Mania debut.

[Johnny Sorrow]

That whole "The hands of those he has sent to Hell" grasping at Taker as he rose was fucking cool as shit.

[Guest Andrews]

That whole "The hands of those he has sent to Hell" grasping at Taker as he rose was fucking cool as shit.

Was it meant to be that though? I just took it as a random zombie kind of a deal, and nothing as tacky / obvious / on the nose as fallen foes. Unless I missed something on commentary?

[Johnny Sorrow]

That whole "The hands of those he has sent to Hell" grasping at Taker as he rose was fucking cool as shit.

Was it meant to be that though? I just took it as a random zombie kind of a deal, and nothing as tacky / obvious / on the nose as fallen foes. Unless I missed something on commentary?

 

That's just how I interpreted it. Wrestling's more fun when I do that.

[Kevin Ridge]

Okay so I was there live for this show and I just now stumble across NBC showing some special of the event. We are in mid Cena versus Rock match and immediately it seems like both guys look so sluggish in the ring. I must have been really drunk at the show as it didn't feel like they were moving this slow. The way this is being shown they have managed to make the 80K plus fans in attendance look like a typical Raw show with only 15,000 or so. I hate how WWE lights their shows. I have yet to watch the official Blu Ray of show but this looks really poor overall. Crowd finally rises for the People's Elbow. When match got going NBC cut to a commercial. Finisher, finisher, reversal, your finisher, finisher, reversal, reversal, reversal, reversal, reversal, finisher. Worse than I remember.

[Smack2k]

First time I saw Cena - Rock II in full was tonight...mad, it wasnt very good at all...VERY by the book and boring as hell..

 

Couple nice spots harkening back to last year...but 0 story told or any sense of one man doing anything of purpose to the other before the finisher fest began..awful.

[artDDP]

I only watched last night because I was expecting the music video versions of the main matches. I was pretty disappointed because I already didn't like this match when I saw it live.

[cowboy hats]

I was at Wrestlemania and was interested in seeing any of the matches on television, but I could not make it through this. Brutal stuff.

[Alucard]

I only watched last night because I was expecting the music video versions of the main matches. I was pretty disappointed because I already didn't like this match when I saw it live.

I miss when they used to do the music video versions. The Michaels/Flair "It's Not My Time" MV from WM24 was my all time favorite. 25 had some good ones too. Unfortunately since about 26 it's all been about 'that one match'. 26 being Taker/Michaels, WM 27 being Taker/HHH which did feature Taker's music video entrance to Katy Perry's "ET" that I thought was awesome.. loved it. But yeah this year and last year were just Cena/Rock build & match. I guess the closest they came is having "All We Have" play after Cena's victory, they did something similar with 26 and Taker/Michaels adding in some of HBK's farewell.

[DocSarpolis]

I've been contemplating getting the package deal to go to WrestleMania 30 this year. The price is dramatically cheaper with the more people that you have in your party. And, with today being the day that they went on sale, all but 2 of us flaked. So, a buddy of mine and myself are looking for a couple of other fans who are looking to get in on the 4 person silver package. Anyone interested?