jdw Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 For the life of me I can't figure out why Pitbull is a Big Star. His albums have peaked at #14-15-50-8-65-7-14, which is staggeringly bad given how few albums it takes to hit the upper reaches of the charts now. Look... Springsteen has been a washed up album seller in Pitbull's era of releasing stuff, and has still done this: New Studio Records: #1-3-1-1-1 Boxed Sets: #18-27 (on the same Album 200 charts) Compilations / Unreleased Vault Material: #43-16 Live: #93-23 Bruce's best Box/Comp/Vault/Live albums as #16-18-23-27 would damn near fit in well with Pitbull's stuff... and Bruce is washed up in terms of moving records compared to 1975-85. Okay... so Pitbull is a great singles performer. Really? He's release something like 30 singles, of which one went to #1, another went to #2, along with a #7 and two a #8. I don't think we need to look hard to find a lot of people squashing that. So... WTF? * * * * * Anyway, I was wonder who are the folks in pro wrestling history that are along those lines. Guys who are thought of our pushed as Super Big Stars, but when you look at it deeper, you wonder what in the heck is there? Not really the Triple H types. For whatever we want to say about Trip getting over pushed, there is some substance to where he drew well as an opponent, or held up his end of the bargain on some important stuff. I think he's a jackass, but I'm willing to admit that he held up his end of the bargain in that run where Vince and Mick and Rock and Steph made him. But say the reverse of say Hans Schmidt, who was a guy when you looked more at him, you kind of wonder how we missed how strong he was. Anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 A part of me wants to say Sting, but I'm not sure that is entirely fair or fits and that will just lead to another long Sting argument and with HoF season on the horizon I'd rather hold off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 I was thinking Kane but I don't want to go down that road either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Would Randy Orton qualify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Pitbull changed career paths 4-5 years ago as he was just a Miami rapper with the Cubano style produced by Lil' Jon but he wasn't doing anything then went the pop version of house music route and got the attention of white chicks who love clubbing and blew up. One of my best friends is a house party DJ and whenever I'm at said parties Pitbull is one of the artists that gets the place really jumpin. Wrestling wise how bout AJ Styles.....good performer and has been pushed hard by TNA for 10 years but look at his business track record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 He's a good worker but relative to his reputation in the eyes of many, Curt Hennig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 A part of me wants to say Sting, but I'm not sure that is entirely fair or fits and that will just lead to another long Sting argument and with HoF season on the horizon I'd rather hold off. I was thinking Kane but I don't want to go down that road either. Yes to both of these. I might also add Scott Hall and Kevin Nash to this list. I do think their jumping helped WCW turn business around, but they weren't the engine that kept it going. That was Hogan. Scott Hall is looked back on as a headliner when even in the WWF he was mostly an upper midcarder. We're a board that tends to be fair to Lex Luger, but you'd probably have a lot of people naming him in this category. Curt Hennig? I'm also wondering if Honky Tonk Man was really this huge draw as IC champ, or if that's just something he's said for so long that we sort of just accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Yeah, it's not really a HOF thingy. And to a degree, Sting was a Big Star. The Flair-Sting would have been high on the charts. Perhaps it was blocked by Hogan-Bossman from getting to #1 in the first half of 1988, but then again, Flair-Lex probably was blocked from getting to #1 by Savage-Ted later in the year. But they were pretty decent #2 albums, each with at least one successful single (Sting-Flair at the Clash would have been a chart topper given its audience). Sting-Hogan clearly was a monster smash album, with a massive hit in Starcade. Long running too, since that spread across a chunk of 1997. I'd say Sting had other hits, some bombs, etc. Maybe a contrast would be Undertaker prior to his feud with Austin. A lot of not doing much business. He did pop a PPV (Taker vs Taker did better than the prior SummerSlam), and had one decent house show run (Bret vs Taker vs Nash turned around the WWF house show business before Shawn got the top spot). But there was a lot of stuff that was just there. But he got the SHIT pushed out of him. Even drawing against Hogan in the two title PPV's... they weren't exactly Hogan's biggest hits, and everyone drew against Hogan. As a worker, he was pretty uninteresting prior to Mick, then seemed to pick things up opposite Austin, and became better. But... Maybe 1991-97 he was a super pushed guy, it was due to the gimmick, and he really didn't do business. Obviously Taker isn't a Pitbull because he did take off after that. There have been some up and downs, such as the feud with Austin in 2001 with Trip and Kane involved wasn't something that anyone wanted to see and killed whatever chance Heel Austin had, if he had any. There have been other times in the past decade where he's done so-so business. But there's also plenty to point at where he did have an impact. So... was thinking of folks who were even more head scratchers than Sting and Early Taker. Example: In Japan, Sakaguchi strikes me as a Pitbull. I mean... WTF? Just a useless #2 behind Inoki. The guys who came after him (Fujinami and Choshu and Maeda), the guy in the same role in the other promotion (Jumbo), and the guy in that other company who became the #2 (Tenryu) all pretty much show up how useless Sak was without us even having to whip out the guys of the generation after that. Sak wasn't treat as a super duper big guy, because Inoki hogged the spotlight. But you're pushed as the #2 guy in a national promotion and you're that forgettable? That's kind of what I'm looking for, and possibly with even more of a push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Shane Douglas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Does anyone think of Shane Douglas as a star? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickHithouse Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Does anyone think of Shane Douglas as a star? probably Shane Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Pitbull changed career paths 4-5 years ago as he was just a Miami rapper with the Cubano style produced by Lil' Jon but he wasn't doing anything then went the pop version of house music route and got the attention of white chicks who love clubbing and blew up. One of my best friends is a house party DJ and whenever I'm at said parties Pitbull is one of the artists that gets the place really jumpin. I get that. It's a bit like 1991-97 Undertaker having that great entrance, but when the lights come up you see that the building isn't packed, and when you listen to the heat a couple of minutes into the match, it's kind of dead. Taker got people jumping... except no one really wanted to pay to see him. Pitbull... we're in the era when downloads count in the charts, and the guy still isn't banging out hit singles left and right. Hell, Britney was past her peak when Pitbull came along, her career was like totally dead and she was a trainwreck in 2007. And here she's released back-to-back #1 albums since them, that have spawned three #1, a pair of #3's and a #7's. She's doing this well past her prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 How about Jarrett? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 He's a good worker but relative to his reputation in the eyes of many, Curt HennigThis was the first name that came to my mind, but I'm not familiar with '80s AWA so I can't fully judge. That said, he strikes me as someone who occasionally gets "second-tier GOAT" or HOF-level talk from people who have only ever followed US wrestling and see Bret vs Perfect at Summerslam 1991 as one of the best technical matches of all time, and who deserves none of that sort of praise when he's compared to a broader sampling of wrestlers over time. Not a top 50 worker or draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Curt Hennig... yeah, that's an interesting one from just about every direction. Kane - he's been pushed, but I'm not sure if he ever was viewed by anyone as a Big Star? Scott Hall and Kevin Nash - yeah... there's at least one bullseye. I tend to think that Hall was the level of star that he warranted as Razor and Hall. He never was pushed to the World Title level, even as a challenger like say DiBiase in the WWF. Razor certainly was over, and tended to carry his end of the bargain at that level he was pushed. When he was pushed higher as Hall & Nash, I think that had something to do with his partner. Nash... he, um... yeah... he really fits the Pitbull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Does anyone think of Shane Douglas as a star? probably Shane Douglas And ECW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 I think you guys are shooting in all the wrong directions. Hillbilly Jim: Someone who a lot of casuals know for various reasons including the cartoon and the WWF marketing machine but who was injured for most of his time in the WWF and never really had a lot of big programs or big anything. Huge exposure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Hillbilly Jim is a great pic. I'd rather hear "Don't Go Messin' With a Country Boy" over anything Pitbull has put out, too. I don't agree with Kane as a pick. Like the dude or not, he's always gone all-in with everything they've thrown at him. You can at least see why the company would be high on him. Hall and Nash are also great picks. Once Hogan came on, they were definitely just along for the ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Thinking about Japan.......how bout Chono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 For the life of me I can't figure out why Pitbull is a Big Star. His albums have peaked at #14-15-50-8-65-7-14, which is staggeringly bad given how few albums it takes to hit the upper reaches of the charts now. Look... Springsteen has been a washed up album seller in Pitbull's era of releasing stuff, and has still done this: New Studio Records: #1-3-1-1-1 Boxed Sets: #18-27 (on the same Album 200 charts) Compilations / Unreleased Vault Material: #43-16 Live: #93-23 Bruce's best Box/Comp/Vault/Live albums as #16-18-23-27 would damn near fit in well with Pitbull's stuff... and Bruce is washed up in terms of moving records compared to 1975-85. Okay... so Pitbull is a great singles performer. Really? He's release something like 30 singles, of which one went to #1, another went to #2, along with a #7 and two a #8. I don't think we need to look hard to find a lot of people squashing that. So... WTF? * * * * * Anyway, I was wonder who are the folks in pro wrestling history that are along those lines. Guys who are thought of our pushed as Super Big Stars, but when you look at it deeper, you wonder what in the heck is there? Not really the Triple H types. For whatever we want to say about Trip getting over pushed, there is some substance to where he drew well as an opponent, or held up his end of the bargain on some important stuff. I think he's a jackass, but I'm willing to admit that he held up his end of the bargain in that run where Vince and Mick and Rock and Steph made him. But say the reverse of say Hans Schmidt, who was a guy when you looked more at him, you kind of wonder how we missed how strong he was. Anyway... YES...I couldnt say it better...I dont understand that dude's fame either...he's not very entertaining...all his music isnt his, its produced by a DJ while he says stupid shit overtop of it...and yes, his sales show the truth...he's not "great". Plus that damn fist pump thing...man, I hate that SO much. Sorry, dont have a wrestler right now...but wanted to give you props for the Pitbull hate...I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Pitbull is rather popular here at the strip club. It's better than all the fucking dub step I have to play, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 HHH was the first name that came to mind. Despite eons of promotional push by the biggest wrestling company in the history of time, you ask any regular people on the street to name some wrestlers, you'll never hear "Triple H". Yet, he's a "legend". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickHithouse Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Pitbull is rather popular here at the strip club. It's better than all the fucking dub step I have to play, at least. Is Pour Some Sugar On Me still in heavy rotation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Pitbull is rather popular here at the strip club. It's better than all the fucking dub step I have to play, at least. Is Pour Some Sugar On Me still in heavy rotation? Oh yeah it's like the Bruno of songs here. The living legend. I should book a match between it and Cherry Pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 The thing is I think you have to look for someone that was way over with casual fans but all the die hards hate. I think a lot of these picks so far are off the mark a bit there. I know no one that takes music "seriously" in this day and age that listens to Pitbull. But people that want some PARTAAAAAAY MUSIC a couple times a month must dig the guy. I am trying to think of who the equivalent of that might be. I want to say Sable just off the top of my head. But this probably needs more thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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