Greatest WWF/E IC Championship Match of All Time?

[peachchaos]

I like this as a good set of keeper matches for their feud:

 

A. 11/01/86 Boston: Pre-Injury

B. 11/22/86 Superstars: Injury Angle Match (taped 10/28/86)

C. 02/15/87 Toronto: Revenge Match

D. 02/23/87 MSG: Elimination Match

F. 03/29/87 WrestleMania: Title Change

Here's what I've got:

 

0. 12/7/85 Boston

1. 7/27/86 Toronto

2. 11/22/86 Philly (Superstars/Injury Angle)

[1/1/87 Ricky Steamboat anti-drug promo]

[1/31/87 Superstars Update on Ricky Steamboat]

3. 2/15/87 Toronto

[2/23/87 MSG 6 Man Tag (Steamboat, Piper, JYD vs. Savage, Adonis, Race)]

4. 3/29/87 Pontiac

[4/11/87 Ricky Steamboat promo as IC Champion]

5. 5/15/87 Houston

6. 7/26/87 Toronto

 

Makes for a pretty well-rounded feud. Great watch.

[Smack2k]

7/26/87 sounds very interesting....Steamboat had lost the belt...so was this just a finish up kind of match or was Steamboat a replacement?

[Grimmas]

I like this as a good set of keeper matches for their feud:

 

A. 11/01/86 Boston: Pre-Injury

B. 11/22/86 Superstars: Injury Angle Match (taped 10/28/86)

C. 02/15/87 Toronto: Revenge Match

D. 02/23/87 MSG: Elimination Match

F. 03/29/87 WrestleMania: Title Change

Here's what I've got:

 

0. 12/7/85 Boston

1. 7/27/86 Toronto

2. 11/22/86 Philly (Superstars/Injury Angle)

[1/1/87 Ricky Steamboat anti-drug promo]

[1/31/87 Superstars Update on Ricky Steamboat]

3. 2/15/87 Toronto

[2/23/87 MSG 6 Man Tag (Steamboat, Piper, JYD vs. Savage, Adonis, Race)]

4. 3/29/87 Pontiac

[4/11/87 Ricky Steamboat promo as IC Champion]

5. 5/15/87 Houston

6. 7/26/87 Toronto

 

Makes for a pretty well-rounded feud. Great watch.

 

Don't they meet at the Wrestling Classic as well?

[Ricky Jackson]

7/26/87 in Toronto doesn't exist according to Cawthon. Here is what he has for that date:

 

WWF @ Wichita, KS - Kansas Coliseum - July 26, 1987 (7,932)

WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan defeated Randy Savage

See that one James?

 

WWF @ Los Angeles, CA – Sports Arena – July 26, 1987 (5,000)

Ricky Steamboat defeated WWF IC Champion the Honkytonk Man via disqualification

The closest Toronto cards to that date were:

 

WWF @ Toronto, Ontario - Maple Leaf Gardens - June 28, 1987 (7,125)

Featured Gorilla Monsoon & Bobby Heenan on commentary:

Prime Time Wrestling - 8/3/87: Outback Jack pinned Johnny K-9 at 3:13 with the bulldog

Prime Time Wrestling - 7/6/87: Hillbilly Jim defeated Steve Lombardi via submission with the bearhug at 7:23

Prime Time Wrestling - 7/13/87: WWF Tag Team Champions Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart defeated Jacques & Raymond Rougeau in a non-title match at 8:35 when Hart pinned Jacques following a clothesline from Neidhart

B. Brian Blair & Jim Brunzell defeated Greg Valentine & Dino Bravo when Blair pinned Bravo after a dropkick from Brunzell at 7:55

Prime Time Wrestling - 7/6/87: King Kong Bundy pinned Cpl. Kirchner at 3:07 with a clothesline and elbow drop

Prime Time Wrestling - 7/6/87: Billy Jack Haynes defeated Ron Bass via disqualification at 10:06 after Bass used his whip, Miss Betsy, as a weapon and shoved the referee to the mat

Prime Time Wrestling - 7/6/87: Brutus Beefcake defeated Johnny V via submission with the sleeper at 4:51; after the bout, Beefcake cut some of his opponent's hair before dying it pink

B. Brian Blair won a 20-man $50,000 battle royal by last eliminating WWF Tag Team Champion Bret Hart at 13:26; other participants included: Ken Patera, Billy Jack Haynes, Greg Valentine, Dino Bravo, King Kong Bundy, WWF Tag Team Champion Jim Neidhart, Outback Jack, the One Man Gang, Cpl. Kirchner, Paul Orndorff, Jacques & Raymond Rougeau, Hillbilly Jim, Brutus Beefcake, Johnny V, Kamala, Kimchee, and Ron Bass; stipulations stated wrestlers were only eliminated if they hit the floor, not if they were thrown onto the entrance ramp; order of elimination: Kimchee by Jacques via a backdrop (1:51); Jack by Kamala & Bass (2:06); Bass by the Rougeaus (4:59); Jacques by Orndorff (5:02); Kirchner by Orndorff (5:38); Orndorff by Haynes (6:03); Raymond by Bravo (6:52); Bundy by Kamala, Jim, Blair, & Haynes (7:03); Jim by Kamala (7:11); Bravo by Blair & Brunzell (8:11); Johnny V & Beefcake were eliminated as V and Valentine attempted to eliminate Beefcake (8:29); Beefcake and V continued to fight after the eliminations, all the way onto the ramp and backstage; Valentine by Hart (10:00); Kamala by Haynes via a dropkick (10:03); Haynes by OMG (10:11); OMG by Blair & Brunzell via a double dropkick (10:19); after Kamala's elimination, Kimchee came back out to take him backstage; when the match came down to the Killer Bees vs. the Hart Foundation, Blair & Brunzell put on their masks; Blair by Hart & Neidhart (12:06); Neidhart by Brunzell (13:09); moments later, Neidhart got on the apron to argue with the referee, with Hart throwing Blair over the top to the floor; behind the referee's back, Blair slid back into the ring, replacing his partner, and knocked Hart out of the ring with a dropkick; after the bout, Blair & Brunzell celebrated with the winner's trophy and $50,000 check

and

 

WWF @ Toronto, Ontario - Maple Leaf Gardens - July 18, 1987 (6,000)

Brad Rheingans defeated Terry Gibbs

Jim Powers & Paul Roma defeated the Shadows

The Dingo Warrior pinned Jose Estrada

Demolition defeated the British Bulldogs

Paul Orndorff fought Tito Santana to a draw

Hillbilly Jim pinned King Kong Bundy

Jim Brunzell & the Junkyard Dog (sub. for B. Brian Blair) defeated WWF Tag Team Champions Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart via count-out; Mr. T was the guest referee for the bout and bodyslammed Danny Davis after the match

No Savage or Steamboat. Pretty weak cards actually.

[BrickHithouse]

WWF @ Wichita, KS - Kansas Coliseum - July 26, 1987 (7,932)

WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan defeated Randy Savage

See that one James?

 

Oh man, that was the first WWF show in Wichita and they advertised the SHIT out of it and brought the "A" show. I begged for a month but sadly was not allowed to go.

 

(First live show I saw was the Nov 1 Challenge/Survivor Series Showdown taping in 1989)

[conker8]

Here's what I've got:

 

0. 12/7/85 Boston

1. 7/27/86 Toronto

2. 11/22/86 Philly (Superstars/Injury Angle)

[1/1/87 Ricky Steamboat anti-drug promo]

[1/31/87 Superstars Update on Ricky Steamboat]

3. 2/15/87 Toronto

[2/23/87 MSG 6 Man Tag (Steamboat, Piper, JYD vs. Savage, Adonis, Race)]

4. 3/29/87 Pontiac

[4/11/87 Ricky Steamboat promo as IC Champion]

5. 5/15/87 Houston

6. 7/26/87 Toronto

 

Makes for a pretty well-rounded feud. Great watch.

If you put the elimination match in the list, you might also add Steamboat/Hogan vs Savage/HTM 5/1/1987.

And you put the Toronto match twice in your list.

[peachchaos]

yeah, duplicates and dyslexia...

 

11/7/85 Chicago (Wrestling Classic)

12/7/85 Boston (Macho Madness: The Ultimate Randy Savage Collection)

7/27/86 Toronto (Best of the WWF Vol. 9 VHS)

11/22/86 Philly (Superstars/Injury Angle)

1/5/87 Meadowlands (Hulk Hogan & Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage & the Honkytonk Man - International Wrestling Challenge)

2/15/87 Toronto (24/7)

2/27/87 MSG (Roddy Piper, the Junkyard Dog, & Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage, Adrian Adonis, & King Harley Race - WWE's Top 50 Superstars of All Time)

3/29/87 Pontiac (WrestleMania III)

5/15/87 Houston (24/7)

[Wolfman]

I am a sucker for any Muraco-Snuka match. Btw, I forget how good of a piledriver Snuka has.....

 

(around 10:40)

 

and the Snuka-Morales series was great too!!!

[jdw]

I like this as a good set of keeper matches for their feud:

 

A. 11/01/86 Boston: Pre-Injury

B. 11/22/86 Superstars: Injury Angle Match (taped 10/28/86)

C. 02/15/87 Toronto: Revenge Match

D. 02/23/87 MSG: Elimination Match

F. 03/29/87 WrestleMania: Title Change

Here's what I've got:

 

0. 12/7/85 Boston

1. 7/27/86 Toronto

I'm not super high on either. The 7/27/86 isn't really "feud" period as they weren't programed together yet. Just one of a few random matches tossed out while Steamer is still programed with Jake. So it's pretty much 0 and 0.1.

 

 

2. 11/22/86 Philly (Superstars/Injury Angle)

The reason I like this:

 

A. 11/01/86 Boston: Pre-Injury

B. 11/22/86 Superstars: Injury Angle Match (taped 10/28/86)

 

Is that:

 

* this is the point where they're programed together

 

Jake-Steamer was blown off on the 10/04/86 SNME (taped 09/13/86). Ricky spends October farting around: a couple of matches with Savage, but more against Herc, and as many with other guys.

 

Here's what Steamboat was up to after the Jake feud was blown off on TV:

 

10/03 vs Savage (Chicago)

10/19 vs Orton sub for Race (Hershey)

10/21 vs Orton (Columbus)

10/22 vs Race (Tampa)

10/23 vs Race (Miami)

10/25 vs Savage (Detroit)

10/26 vs Race (Toronto)

10/27 vs Herc (London)

10/31 vs Herc (Providence)

 

You might think that Ricky got Savage in the "big cities" in October, but Savage worked with Steele (Boston, Toronto), Honkytonk Man (Pittsburgh, Meadowlands, Landover, Philly), Bravo (Montreal) and Jake (Milwaukee) in more big cities in October. He also worked with Piper, JYD and Pedro Morales in the month. Sure, we're missing some dates from both. But October was a month when they were wrapping up their prior feuds (Jake-Steamer and Savage-Steele), while mixing and matching opponents.

 

Things changed as we moved to November:

 

11/01 vs Savage (Boston)

11/02 vs Sika (Springfield)

11/03 vs Orton (Long Island)

11/04 vs Savage (Fresno)

11/05 vs Savage (Portland)

11/06 vs Savage (Oakland)

11/08 vs Savage (Philadelphia)

11/09 vs Savage (East Rutherford)

11/13 vs Savage (Madison)

11/14 vs Race (Davenport)

11/15 vs Orndorff (Milwaukee)

11/16 vs Savage (Columbus)

11/17 vs Savage (Warren)

11/18 vs Savage (Altoona)

11/22 Angle with Savage (Superstars)

 

They were craming in the first phase of the feud at this point, prior to the injury angle airing.

 

So that's why I tend to treat the "feud" starting in this time frame: either the 11/1 Boston match or the 11/8 Philly match as a represenatative of how they worked the feud prior to the Injury Angle. The Philly match isn't bad, but I think the Boston match is a good, tight match where they laid things out well.

 

And then Ricky is off the road.

 

* it shows a match where Steamer has Macho's number, and Macho has to dodge to get out of town with his title. It makes him "snapping" after Ricky "again" controls him

 

We see it in the Steamboat having the upper edge in the 11/1 match, and again in the Injury angle. And Savage just snaps.

 

[1/1/87 Ricky Steamboat anti-drug promo]

[1/31/87 Superstars Update on Ricky Steamboat]

I wouldn't argue these. I left the storyline stuff out. If one puts the feud together, one would grab most of the stuff.

 

 

3. 2/15/87 Toronto

Yep. This then flips the earlier matches where Ricky had the control, and Macho snapped. Here we have Steamer out for revenge, taking it to him... and losing his head which costs him. At Mania we'd see Ricky going back to what gave him the upper hand early in the feud.

 

 

[2/23/87 MSG 6 Man Tag (Steamboat, Piper, JYD vs. Savage, Adonis, Race)]

I treat that as a numbered match: it's the only time they brought the feud to MSG, and clearly helps build the heat for all three of those singles matches at Mania. Fun match as well.

 

4. 3/29/87 Pontiac

Yep.

 

 

5. 5/15/87 Houston

It's solid enough, and much like all their other matches, is worthwhile if one is trying to get every match they worked together. But it doesn't add much, even with Ricky defending. Mania is the climax, and the only way to go post-climax were the cage matches. Since none exist... eh. :/

 

 

6. 7/26/87 Toronto

There isn't 7/26/87 match. There's a 7/28/87 card in Toronto, but neither are on it. I'm not sure what other match might be out there. They had two additional Philly matches beyond the one I mentioned above: 1/10/87 and 2/14/87. They're short and don't add anything that the 2/87 Toronto match doesn't have as a bridge between the Injury Angle and Mania. Not sure if something else is out there.

 

John

[jdw]

1/5/87 Meadowlands (Hulk Hogan & Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage & the Honkytonk Man - International Wrestling Challenge)

2/27/87 MSG (Roddy Piper, the Junkyard Dog, & Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage, Adrian Adonis, & King Harley Race - WWE's Top 50 Superstars of All Time)

The reason I like the second one is that we have the three singles matches being touched on in it. It does come down to Piper-o-Rama, but that's okay since it's his "last MSG appearance". But you get the form of what the match is about.

 

With Hogan... while... he sucks attention unto himself. And HTM really isn't paired up with anyone in that. I get that he eventually takes the belt off Steamer, and feuds with Savage... but it's really a slapped together thing.

 

I was think more along the lines of if we treat the feud in a way to extract a modern TV/PPV feud series. That just didn't happen back in 1986: you had SNME, angles on TV, just 1 PPV in the year at Mania, and the house shows. No one saw the Toronto match other than the folks who were there, unless it aired on Primetime... and stuff like that didn't very often. So you just saw the PPV, SNME, tv angles, and the house shows near you.

 

In addition, we don't have a full "cycle" of Savage-Steamer matches at any one arena like we do Hogan-Orndorff (Philly) or Hogan-Savage (MSG) or Savage-Tito (MSG, with the extension into the tag team blow off). We have three matches in Philly, but they don't have the blow off (Mania).

 

So we're left to cobble together what might work as an arc of the feud, pieces things together. In a modern sense:

 

1st PPV: 11/01/86 Boston

 

Nothing resolved, except that Steamer has Savage's number and demands another title shot after the screwjob.

 

Raw match: 11/22/86 Superstars

 

Steamer has Savage's number again, and Macho goes batshit in the Injury Angle Match and feud kicks it up.

 

2nd PPV: 02/15/87 Toronto

 

Steamer out for Revenge Match and we get blood! But he doesn't get the title! He demand another title shot.

 

SmackDown match: 02/23/87 MSG: Elimination Match

 

That is pretty much a SmackDown type match: Send the guys over there to work 20+ to build up the PPV in the last "go home" show of the cycle. It's Piper's "farewell" match on Television, etc.

 

3rd PPV: 03/29/87 WrestleMania: Title Change

 

Put it on Mania. Steamboat wins the title. There is no need for a 4th PPV match as Savage and Steamboat can go onto other things.

 

If-if-if we had a Cage match, we could toss that on as "Raw blow off match" as you could have Savage start the cycle after Mania talking about how he was screwed out of the title by Animal, and watch a rematch where no one can get involved. Raw has had cage matches in the past, and of course had blood for a number of year (like Austin-Angle)... so put this on in the middle of the cycle, loads of blood, Steamer wins, feud over.

 

Again, if we're completist... one can put everything on a comp. If one is trying to get across the story of the feud... tend to think these work. It's their best three matches, along with the Angle Match (which frankly is a heck of a base of a match before the angle), and the fun Elimination match. 5 matches.

[peachchaos]

I guess feud or not, I really just like watching these guys work each other, so I'm determined to find everything.

 

Obviously I was missing a few matches and had some dates mixed up, so thanks for clarifying what was out there and I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the feud-centric material in a modern context.

 

Going the completist route and making a comp...

 

Prologue (11/7/85 Rosemont, 12/7/85 Boston, 7/27/86 Toronto)

Feud (11/1/86 Boston, 11/22/86 Superstars (taped 10/28/86 Binghamton), 1/10/87 Philly, 2/15/87 Toronto, 3/29/87 Pontiac)

Epilogue (5/11/97 Cream of the Crop promo, 5/15/87 Houston)

 

Throw in the 1/5/87 Meadowlands tag and the 2/23/87 MSG 6-man with all the hype & promos.

 

Am I missing anything that's out there on tape?

[Sidebottom]

Predictable answer, but for me its Bulldog vs Hitman at Summerslam 92. It's the only IC title match I can remember which had a legit main event feel, with a main event style build. The match itself was executed brilliantly in front of a massive crowd who were into the action, at a special time in wrestling.

[JazeUSA]

a few off the top of my head:

 

Rock vs Triple H Summerslam Latter Match

Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlemania III

Hart vs Bulldog Summerslam

[peachchaos]

Rock vs Triple H Summerslam Latter Match

I prefer their latter matches as well.

[paul sosnowski]

I also have a Savage-Steamboat match that aired on International Wrestling Challenge in Italy, taped on 1/27/87 in Ft Myers FL. The 1/10/87 Philly house show is online as well.

[C.S.]

I came in here to post the aforementioned Triple-Rock Ladder Match from SummerSlam too. I have no idea how it holds up now, but at the time, it felt like such a star-making match for both men - and in retrospect, I think it was exactly that. I don't think it's the greatest IC match ever, but it belongs on a list of good ones.

 

I still say HBK-Razor at WrestleMania X was better than their SummerSlam rematch. WM X was "the first time" (I realize there were previous ladder matches, but 99% of us - including me - hadn't seen them) and you can never top the first time.

 

Some other good ones:

 

- Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty: The whole setup for Marty's surprise return and win was awesome. Won PWI MOTY too (I know, I know...)

 

- The Miz's most recent reigns: I'm not sure how many great matches there were, but I remember liking what he did with Dolph (of all people). That feud somehow worked and felt intense.

[ragemaster]

In a shoot interview Steamboat talked about a match he had with savage, that went for about 50 minutes.

Said afterwards they were both blue, because of the pace of the match.

 

They had to keep wrestling because the main event was late to the building.

 

Sure he said it was in Toronto, is this just a case of a wrestler exaggerating or did it actually happen.

 

I guess even if it did happen, it probably never made it onto tape.

But we can live in hope.

[DMJ]

Haven't rewatched it in years but Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect from SummerSlam 91' was my favorite match ever from ages 8-12. I know the KOTR match is widely credited as being better, but in the moment, as a kid, Hart/Perfect was such a star-making, emotional story that I still think I'd get caught up in it if I popped it on 25 years later.