Loss Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Ask Korchenko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrklarr Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Sounds like Haku/Meng is the consensus No. 1 badass. Knowing this makes him a lot more interesting to me, but it also makes it much harder to suspend disbelief when I see him lay down for, say, Shawn Michaels at WM 7. (Wonder who Shawn would rather face in a bar fight: those 12 marines who almost killed him or just one Haku/Meng.) This discussion makes me wonder who would be the LEAST legitimate tough guy in history. My vote: Honkytonk Man. I always remember Summerslam '88 when Superstar Graham, who was on commentary, said: "He better watch out. There are some guys in the back who would take him apart." Can't help but think that some = ALL OF THEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Least toughest is an interesting discussion. When you hear somebody call someone a puss in a shoot, a lot of it stems from jealousy of their spot, etc. Also, some guys just didn't get into fights. Reminds me of some stories Bob Holly told. He called Kevin Nash "the biggest seven foot tall pussy he ever met" because he was always talking about kicking everyones ass but never lifted a finger to anyone. I'm sure Nash is no pussy based on size alone, but listening to hundreds of Nash shoots about how he WAS gonna kick so and so's ass, and WAS gonna threaten so and so, there is a point to be made. Nash is all talk. Also Tazz. There's numerous stories out there about how he believed his gimmick in ECW. One of the reasons they supposedly replaced him with Holly on Tough Enough was because if one of those kids decided to shoot on him he would be made to look like a joke. According to Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Well, at least someone bought into Bob's tall tales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Also, in the Ray Rougeau "doesn't look like he's tough mode but absolutely is" camp, Norman Smiley. All-around nice guy who doesn't cause trouble, but not somebody you would mess around with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 5565586[/url]'] Also, in the Ray Rougeau "doesn't look like he's tough mode but absolutely is" camp, Norman Smiley. All-around nice guy who doesn't cause trouble, but not somebody you would mess around with. When I met Norman, I was surprised how tall he was in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 I'm trying to remember where, I think maybe it was Naylor on Facebook recently, said Meng told him all the stories that have been passed around on the internet about him are truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 He seems like such a cuddly car spa manager.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 What about Dave Finlay. He strikes me as a guy who could kick your ass pretty fast. Dave Taylor as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfman Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 I always heard Adrian Street was a badass (thus making his character even more enjoyable to watch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 On the lucha front Ray Mendoza and Gori Guerrero were the guys that would go to the local bar to ask who the toughest guy in town was and when a challenge ensued then proceed to beat the shit out of him in a very graphic way. Mendoza, while being described as a very kind hearted family man by fans and those in the business, was especially vicious with those who dared question the integrity of lucha. Dr. Wagner was a pretty big guy for his day and was one of those wrestlers who was given freedom by the Lutteroths to beat the crap out of prospects to weed out the ones that weren't cut for it. All I have heard about him makes me think he wasn't the nicest human being in the roster. He was extra tough on those with transvestite gimmicks. But if you could take it and didn't complain he'd respect you and "work" with you as opposed to beating you up. And just to show how old timer reputations sometimes don't mean all that much. Alfonso Dantes was considered by many to be the best pure shooter in Mexico during his prime. He was already old but sometime in the late 70s he tried to tool with skinny young boy Satoru Sayama, trying to manipulate his finger joints. Dantes was immediately reversed and tied up like a pretzel and basically out of respect was given the option to keep working or to go for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Dr. Wagner was a pretty big guy for his day and was one of those wrestlers who was given freedom by the Lutteroths to beat the crap out of prospects to weed out the ones that weren't cut for it. All I have heard about him makes me think he wasn't the nicest human being in the roster. He was extra tough on those with transvestite gimmicks. But if you could take it and didn't complain he'd respect you and "work" with you as opposed to beating you up.Whatever other motivations were behind it, it's actually not a stupid training technique. Working that kind of gimmick would seem to assure more fans thinking they are tougher than the guy working as a transvestite and thus want to challenge him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Dr. Wagner was a pretty big guy for his day and was one of those wrestlers who was given freedom by the Lutteroths to beat the crap out of prospects to weed out the ones that weren't cut for it. All I have heard about him makes me think he wasn't the nicest human being in the roster. He was extra tough on those with transvestite gimmicks. But if you could take it and didn't complain he'd respect you and "work" with you as opposed to beating you up.Whatever other motivations were behind it, it's actually not a stupid training technique. Working that kind of gimmick would seem to assure more fans thinking they are tougher than the guy working as a transvestite and thus want to challenge him. Hey, lucha was pretty rough back in the day. The company had many guys like Wagner doing that: Mendoza, Guajardo, Lagarde, Guerrero, Scorpio, Angel Blanco... The promoters were looking for their own interests to make sure their pushed stars had the durability to keep up with the schedule. I know wrestlers love to exaggerate about this (especially the American ones but all of them do in general) but it was pretty common for guys in Mexico to work 7 to 9 shots from Friday morning to Sunday night. Double and triple booking still exists to this day and is verifiable as most lucha aficionados can tell you, though nowadays wrestlers can get away with 10 minute main events and/or running through the first two falls in four minutes. By reading Box y Lucha magazines from 40 or 50 years ago I could gather that the media, which carried a lot of weight, would rip you a new one if you mailed it in during the big weekend events. Commissions could actually fine you for double or triple booking yourself though they almost always overlooked it outside of Mexico City, and how about this one, you could be suspended in an entire state during weeks for coasting during a main or semi main event if you were a big star. I couldn't give you any examples off the top of my head but I know it happened several times to big stars. Same can be said about wrestlers showing up "in no condition to perform". But back to the original subject, some of the first exoticos were grizzled shooter veterans like Bello Greco who were straight. The later ones were mostly gay or real transvestites and many of them didn't look tough at all. I have never heard any stories about fans or local toughies picking on an exotico but always hard that Pimpinela was a skilled amateur wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Actually, right after posting, I remembered reading how Rene Guajardo (who was by all accounts an excellent worker) and El Solitario (who also had the reputation) got in trouble a few times for rushing through Sunday matches to comfortably make their three shots a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I always heard Adrian Street was a badass (thus making his character even more enjoyable to watch). I heard that the bulk of the British wrestlers who came over (Street, Finlay, Dave Taylor, Regal, Billy Robinson, etc.) were all legit hard as ten bears, particularly (but not limited to) the Snakepit guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Solomon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Jimmy Snuka beat the shit out of Victor Rivera in Japan over and over again accroding to Stan Hansen's book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Jimmy Snuka also used to beat his girlfriend, with the results we know. A real badass indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Solomon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Jimmy Snuka also used to beat his girlfriend, with the results we know. A real badass indeed. I didn't know I need to qualify it by mentioning the Nancy Argentina incident for the millionth time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Solomon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 David Shultz would to be somewhat of a badass to be the top bounty hunter he was. Still looks great today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Reminds me of some stories Bob Holly told. He called Kevin Nash "the biggest seven foot tall pussy he ever met" because he was always talking about kicking everyones ass but never lifted a finger to anyone. I'm sure Nash is no pussy based on size alone, but listening to hundreds of Nash shoots about how he WAS gonna kick so and so's ass, and WAS gonna threaten so and so, there is a point to be made. Nash is all talk. He was a bouncer. Maybe he just got very good at intimidation and using his vocal skills as opposed to getting into legit fights, especially if you consider a bouncer could be opening himself, and the establishment, up for some serious hot water if he actually did get into a fight as he was kicking patrons out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Don't know the back story but as the legend goes Nash as Oz started being an asshole to Fujinami and he got knocked out by a palm blow or strike. Time ago I also read a story about Scott Norton getting his ass handed by Fujinami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I wouldn't mind Bret Hart in my corner in a bar fight. You know he'd of had your back, and you know he'd be pretty damn good in a ruck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Why has no shoot interview company captilized on just making a MENG TOUGHMAN compiliation from shoots of guys talking about how badass he is A guy on youtube used to have a bunch of vids like that, talking about subjects like everyone hating Johnny Ace, Bradshaw being a bully, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonlake Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Surely Bruiser Brody deserves a mention? And how about Wahoo McDaniel? Or have I just listened to too many Flair stories about him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Surely Bruiser Brody deserves a mention? And how about Wahoo McDaniel? Or have I just listened to too many Flair stories about him? Welcome to the board! Vaguely off topic, but still, enjoy: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=18167 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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