Matt D Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 He was also a late era WCW SN Superworker. He was fucking awful in WCW, on every level. Probably the worst all-around worker there with Stevie Ray and Brian Adams. La Parka/Silver King vs Kendall Windham/Curly Bill WCW SN 11-2-99 I am specifically looking at whether or not Mike Jones is good here. I wanted to find the Curly Bill vs Lash match that Eric liked on Segunda Caida but I'm going with this instead. He obviously has quality opponents here. Immediately, he tries to punch Silver King who blocks it and thigh kicks him. Jones sells it by stooging huge, hopping around and eating a thrust kick. Silver King tries to whip him into the corner but he reverses it. Silver King climbs up the ropes and Jones does this great ducking weave thing to shoot under the back flip and follows with a huge clothesline that Silver King sells big. Some decent stomps, once nice downward punch, and a really mean slam before Jones tosses him into Windham's boot. Silver King stumbles into a neutral corner and Jones hits a chop. He tosses Silver King into the ropes and King does a whip around recoveral. Jones misses a fairly slow clothesline and gets hit by a spinning wheel kick. I think Silver King was going for a top rope dive but he went to the Rednecks' corner to do it and Kendall clobbered him. Virgil grabs a leg and knocks him down so he can tag Kendall in. So yeah, Kendall Windham was pretty fun here. Lots of long limbed offense. It's like watching a balding Mr. Fantastic or something. Anyway, long story short, this leads to chinlocks, a comeback, and a quizzically set up hot tag, followed by Jones eating some offense and a Windham boot as a foreign object to save the day for the Rednecks. I don't think he was totally smooth in keeping up with Silver King, but he stooged well and his offense looked pretty good and a lot of what he's been given credit for in this era has been limbwork and that didn't come into play here. Here's what Eric said about the Lash match Curly Bill vs. Lash LeRoux Curly Bill/Vincent has been a real treat in rewatch. Somewhere between Virgil and here he got good. Here he carries Lash to a real fun match, missing a giant fistdrop off the middle (and selling it great), bumping big from the apron to the floor (almost smacking the back of his head on the guardrail), stomping on Lash's face after a failed sunset flip, scraping his boots on Lash's face, and wearing baggy Tommy Hilfiger jeans while portraying a redneck. Lash was along for the ride, and of course won, but this was Curly Bill's match. and what he said about the Frankie Lancaster match Vincent vs. Frankie Lancaster This was a real nice Vince showcase and he really made the most of it. Just stiffs up Lancaster the whole match, takes a big bump for him, and ends it with one of the nastiest arm bars I've seen. He did a single-arm DDT and looked like he just posted Frankie's wrist right into the mat and then wrenched it into a great Fujiwara armbar, but working it from his back. Just awesome. Vincent/Curly Bill could really work, and it would only come through in small flashes of brilliance like this. You know Frankie Lancaster today from his debilitating kidney disease (I assume). If I could find either of those easily I'd take a look at them. Found another match. Vincent vs Lizmark Jr May 22nd, 1999 Worldwide I can't call him "Curly Bill" but I can call him Vincent. Vincent has a great jab that he does right ot Lizmark's face out of nowehre. Really nice spinning neckbreaker too. He's working the crowd which is nice and probably easier at a Worldwide taping than elsewhere. He can't eat a spin kick for the life of him but he can eat dropkicks and does so here twice really well, once going out to the floor through the second rope. They do a transition where Vincent punches Lizmark mid plancha, which is a good thought even if the execution is just okay. Really nice selling of a Lizmark punch flurry. Good punch drunk look, then this great little casual step away to avoid a corner splash. His single arm DDT is really swank and is followed by his smooth little transition into the fujiwara arm bar, which he really leans into, and that's the match. Again, it's not a match with armwork and it's against a luchador but I think this was a better showing than the tag match and he did a lot of things well here. I remember really liking a Vincent vs Barry Horowitz match from 99 SN but I haven't seen it in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Worst PPV Main Event of all time for my money is Undertaker vs Kane from Judgment Day 98. I'd like to propose Corona's Truism: Life's too short for Undertaker vs. Kane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Not to bring up old arguments Matt, but the overness of Virgil in 1991 is Exhibit A in my case for "why Ted was better than Bossman in WWF". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 What case for Dibiase? That was part of your thousand and one aborted projects, mister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I'm not very good at Microscope / youtube watching, that's where you, Matt and Martin rule. I host TWO podcasts and I'm not dead, so I'm doing alright with wrestling projects. Not to mention 80s projects and booking Ivan Koloff to two world titles! That's enough plates spinning for me. (*ahem* 1990 yearbook *ahem*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 You pay off an angle that'd been building for years without teasing the audience and it gets over. That's not so surprising. It has nothing to do with Dibiase and everything to do with Vince's patience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Of course it had something to do with Dibiase. Dibiase was brilliant in the Virgil feud. Vince had so little faith in Virgil that he got Piper to be his talking head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 That feud was all about Piper then, and Sherri. Seriously, has Vince EVER done anything with that much build, even if most of it was passive? It was probably the single payoff in the history of the WWF with the most weight of time behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 You're like a man desparately flailing about to find a counter-argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Hardly. I am a man lackadaisically flailing about to list counter arguments. Shoot them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 That feud was all about Piper then, and Sherri. Seriously, has Vince EVER done anything with that much build, even if most of it was passive? It was probably the single payoff in the history of the WWF with the most weight of time behind it. Liz and Randy getting married? That was like daytime soap stars going to the altar. I'm in the Boss Man camp but the Virgil stuff was some of the best stuff Dibiase did in the WWF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I think it would have worked just as well with almost anyone. Maybe not in ring, but I'm not sure the in ring mattered there so long as Virgil won at Summerslam. I think Honky could have managed that or Valentine or most midcard WWF heels (maybe not Bravo) I also think, honestly and completely, that Sherri was the MVP of Dibiase's 1991. For people who went through the set, did she stand out? I'd be amazed if she didn't. She did to me when I was going through that stuff, far, far more than Dibiase did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I think it would have worked just as well with almost anyone. Maybe not in ring, but I'm not sure the in ring mattered there so long as Virgil won at Summerslam. I think Honky could have managed that or Valentine or most midcard WWF heels (maybe not Bravo) I also think, honestly and completely, that Sherri was the MVP of Dibiase's 1991. For people who went through the set, did she stand out? I'd be amazed if she didn't. She did to me when I was going through that stuff, far, far more than Dibiase did. Yes, Sherri stood out in a huge positive way as a performer in 1991 WWF. I hope she got a huge payoff for Wrestlemania VII, because she was possibly the hardest worker on a really good show -- building heat, taking bumps, changing clothes and seamlessly going from program to program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I think it would have worked just as well with almost anyone. Maybe not in ring, but I'm not sure the in ring mattered there so long as Virgil won at Summerslam. I think Honky could have managed that or Valentine or most midcard WWF heels (maybe not Bravo) Why would Honky Tonk Man or Valentine have a bodyguard? The feud worked because people wanted to see Virgil turn on Dibiase not just turn face. I don't think anybody gave a crap about a Virgil face turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Honky could have had a bodyguard, certainly. (The counter argument is Jarrett and the Roadie, but that didn't have YEARS to build up the potential energy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 But the angle was rich white guy treats black bodyguard like a slave. If Honky replaces Dibiase does it become Elvis impersonator steals music from black bodyguard? Virgil pens Rhythm and Blues' hits and gets no royalties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Now do the Rogueaus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Maybe Virgil could've carried the Rougeaus' bags or been their pool cleaner in Memphis, Tennessee. Or maybe he was the guy telling all the girls the Rougeaus are on their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 But the angle was rich white guy treats black bodyguard like a slave. If Honky replaces Dibiase does it become Elvis impersonator steals music from black bodyguard? Virgil pens Rhythm and Blues' hits and gets no royalties? That is classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I laughed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Honky could have had a bodyguard, certainly. (The counter argument is Jarrett and the Roadie, but that didn't have YEARS to build up the potential energy). HTM should have had a ringside chef that smeared peanut butter and bananas all over people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Swede Hanson should have been his chef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Lacelle Posted November 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Lots of excellent replies. With regards to some of the other wrestling vocations, I would say Chris Cruise was the most boring announcer. Babyface Teddy Long was the most boring manager. The Godwinns were a good shout for most boring tag team. Dark Journey is my pick for the most boring valet. Ted Dibiase was the most boring colour commentator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Honky could have had a bodyguard, certainly. (The counter argument is Jarrett and the Roadie, but that didn't have YEARS to build up the potential energy). HTM should have had a ringside chef that smeared peanut butter and bananas all over people. "I heartedly endorse this event or product." - Krusty the Clown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 I would say Chris Cruise was the most boring announcer. Any of the AWA guys. Ron Trongard. Babyface Teddy Long was the most boring manager. Good pick. I say: Arnold Skaaland. The Godwinns were a good shout for most boring tag team. Jimmy Garvin and Mr. Electricity Steve Regal Dark Journey is my pick for the most boring valet. Diana Hart Ted Dibiase was the most boring colour commentator. Mickey Garagiola or Boyd Pierce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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