Most boring wrestler of all time?

[khawk20]

Any of the AWA guys. Ron Trongard.

With reference to Trongard, are you sure you're not confusing the words "boring" and "bad" here?

 

Even if Tronny's calls in Vegas were shitty (and a lot of them were), I don't think "boring" applies. Same with the awful Lord Blears on colour.

 

Donna's segments, well...boring might be too kind.

 

The AWA answer to this is probably Lee Marshall, but he was so fucking awful I can't tell if he was boring and bad, or just one of them.

[JerryvonKramer]

Fair point khawk.

[Matt D]

Boyd Pierce

 

There is absolutely nothing boring about this.

 

That's like saying that this picture has the world's most boring guest timekeeper.

 

[JerryvonKramer]

He brought nothing to the booth.

[Matt D]

That's because you didn't shut your eyes and picture that jacket while he was talking.

[Mad Dog]

I really enjoyed Boyd's cold and clinical approach to wrestling.

[khawk20]

I really enjoyed Boyd's cold and clinical approach to wrestling.

This description made me think of Coach John Heath in Florida, who should win the announcer category of this hands down.

[PeteF3]

Without Boyd, we wouldn't get such penetrating insights like that he understands why they call him the Barbarian, or why they call him the Nightmare.

[EricR]

Yeah calling Vincent/Curly Bill one of the three worst WCW workers is absurd. Along with the two match reviews Matt posted, here's the rest of his matches I've reviewed. I've liked every single WCW Vince match I've watched so far. These reviews also reveal that I have zero memory of stuff once I watch it, as I make the exact same revelations practically every match, like some dorky ass version of Memento.

 

 

vs. Barry Horowitz

 

Man, I really really like late 90s Vincent. What the fuck? He has no offense whatsoever, but does little things that just work. He's like what Stevie Richards added to late 00's Sunday Night Heat. Here he does some cool hot shots on Barry, then chokes him in the ropes while hitting these awesome body blows. Horowitz does cool things too and I love him stomping both of Vincent's hands while he's on the mat. Vincent does really hilarious "ohhhhhh my hand...OHHHHH MY OTHER HAND!" selling. Some cool spots in this that you don't ever see. Vincent has Barry in a headlock and ran up the turnbuckles with it and when he went to flip it into a bulldog (like Kidman would do) Horowitz just planted him with a back suplex. At another point Vincent had Barry draped over the top rope, and climbed to the top to do a guillotine leg drop! But Barry moved an Vince crotched himself and it was awesome. I loved Vincent's finisher in WCW, too, the single arm DDT rolled into a Fujiwara armbar. I REALLY want to see Vincent against Finlay, Taylor or Regal.

 

w/ Brian Adams vs. Benoit/Malenko

 

This was supposed to be Brian Adams vs. Dean Malenko, which sounds kinda shitty on paper. But it was changed pre-match to the tag you see above, which to me sounds completely AWESOME on paper and explains the earlier, shorter Vince match. Seriously, late 90s WCW Vincent is a revelation, just the perfect syndicated TV worker. Really knew how to cater his style to whatever guy he was working and he really may be the great lost late 90s superworker. His work against Malenko here was great, flying into his silly leaping flipping calf kick and once he goes on offense really begins the story of the match (working over Dean's back and building to the Benoit hot tag). He has all sorts of cool forearms and clubbing blows and an amazing elbow drop to Dean's back, with Adams then working it over with a nice tilt-a-whirl slam and just stretches Dean over his knee. Yeah it all gets no sold by the end of the match but the work by nWo was strong and you can't expect much more from a 6 minute Saturday Night tag that ends in a run-in. Personally, I thought Adams and Vince smoked the vanilla midgets in this match.

 

an earlier tag w/ Brian Adams vs. Benoit/Malenko

 

Well this match was fucking awesome. People are going to pull out the "pretending to like a shitty wrestler to sound kewl" card, but holy shit is Vincent one of the best things about this rewatch project. Dude makes total throwaway matches watchable, and he really steps up his game in bigger matches like this. He is responsible for holding this one together, actually. Benoit looked good and dished a beating, but the beating was made way more fun by Vincent stooging around the ring for him. He was really weird, in that he always seemed like he was playing a guy that wasn't really a wrestler. He's probably most similar to Stevie Richards, I guess. Neither guy really has any offense, but what they do they do really well. Vincent is such an anomaly in that I don't remember him being any good at ALL in WWF. I don't know when exactly he got good, but he is flat out awesome in '98 WCW. His control segments are great, as he dishes out tons of backrakes and clubbing blows. His clubbing blows are awesome as they aren't quite punches, aren't quite clubbering, but they land somewhere around the dudes neck/throat and look awesome. He bumps great, and always makes tagging in Adams a big deal, either by desperately scrambling to him or by cockily strutting over to take him in like "Yeah you know I was just beating your ass, now here's the big man." Match gets tons of time, gets some good nearfalls, and is a great Vincent showcase. Great stuff.

 

w/ Konnan vs. Steiner Bros.

 

Well Vincent looked AMAZING in the main, and boy did he take a crazy beating from the Steiners. Scott almost dumped him on his head with a belly to belly, Rick gives him the fasted and most dangerously painful Oklahoma Stampede I've ever seen (running him full speed stomach first in to the buckles, with Vincent's knees whipping over the top rope. If Steiner had been offline then one of his knees would've shattered into the ringpost), powerslam off the top, etc. It gets to a point where Vincent tries to tag out and Konnan backs away, and Vincent's face is priceless. He then gets bulldogged off Scott's shoulders for the loss. Fun match I wasn't expecting much from (since Konnan may be the worst in WCW...him or Stevie Ray).

 

vs. Marty Jannetty

 

First off, Marty fucking Jannetty (!) gets a clean pin over a member of the nWo halfway through 1998! WHAT!? Vincent looked awesome here, hitting an assortment of fistdrops and "Hitman" style elbow drops. Then Jannetty somehow gets the win. Insane. Did not see that coming. That's one of the great things about syndicated WCW, is that you get weird hierarchy matches between people that you've never seen win one match. Who wins a match between Van Hammer and Scott Vick? There are often no foregone conclusions with these matches. I didn't even know Marty was employed this late, let alone winning matches.

[Death From Above]

Wasn't Boyd also responsible on the Mid South set for the line "The Crowned Uncrowned King of Wrestling"?

 

Because that was the greatest moment, like, ever. Pretty much.

[pantherwagner]

That's one of the great things about syndicated WCW, is that you get weird hierarchy matches between people that you've never seen win one match. Who wins a match between Van Hammer and Scott Vick? There are often no foregone conclusions with these matches. I didn't even know Marty was employed this late, let alone winning matches.

I was thinking about this subject fairly recently. It's quite intriguing watching Brad Armstrong vs. Super Calo, or Mark Starr vs. Jim Powers, there definitely was a hierarchy even at the lowest rungs of WCW syndicated C-shows.

[pantherwagner]

Virgil gets an undeserved bad rap as a crappy worker but he was a serviceable low and sometimes mid card babyface during his early 90s WWF run. He was not a master psychologist or seller but he was a good athlete, fast, had good execution and could pull do some decent stuff with a good opponent.

 

Another guy that I also feel gets a lot of undeserved crap is Paul Roma. Yeah, he should not have been in the Horsemen, I get that, but he was a good hand.

[ohtani's jacket]

Blue Demon Jr is the most boring wrestler of all time.

[pantherwagner]

Blue Demon Jr is the most boring wrestler of all time.

Not in a world where Tinieblas Jr. exists.

[ohtani's jacket]

Canek may be worse than both of them. Tinieblas Jr. is kind like watching a car crash. He's just so ungodly tall compared to his opponents.

[pantherwagner]

Canek may be worse than both of them. Tinieblas Jr. is kind like watching a car crash. He's just so ungodly tall compared to his opponents.

I don't know, I have seen plenty of good Canek.

 

Demon Jr. is alright when he can just work the mat. If he's got to sell or punch or kick people or use moves or shit like that it gets bad fast.

 

I just can't think anything good to say about Tinieblas Jr. other than he's tall and he's got a cool mask. The old man was worse but at least he had the little motherfucker with him.

 

I just checked luchawiki and it's awesome that my Alushe profile is still there though somebody added a last line that isn't mine.

[Loss]

Haha, I'm tempted to say Mascara Sagrada.

[El-P]

Calling Vincent/Curly Bill a "great lost 90's superworker" sounds totally absurd to me, at the very least. And I went through those matches too (and won't ever get back to watch post 97 WCW). Anyway… to each his own. Serviceable low undercard JTTS in the WWF I would agree with. He was perfectly watchable tagging with El Matador vs the Head Shrinkers.

[pantherwagner]

Haha, I'm tempted to say Mascara Sagrada.

Excellent choice. Definitely worse than Tinieblas Jr. or Demon Jr. It's hard to believe it two decades after the fact, but for a short period of time, Mascara Sagrada was ENORMOUS. Of course not like Konnan or Vampiro, or anything like that, but definitely Atlantis level, perhaps almost Octagon level. I know it sounds absurd. But the guy was so awful that he's the only one from that generation that didn't parlay that fame into a decades long superstar career. At some point he vanished and NOBODY missed him at all.

[ohtani's jacket]

Mascara Sagrada as more bad than boring. For a long time, I considered him and Super Muneco as the two worst luchadores I'd seen, but every dog has its day and both guys have had decent performances from time to time.

 

Count Bartelli is probably the most boring Euro worker I've come across, but he was beloved by everyone so I'm guessing his career was better at some point.

[EricR]

Calling Vincent/Curly Bill a "great lost 90's superworker" sounds totally absurd to me, at the very least. And I went through those matches too (and won't ever get back to watch post 97 WCW). Anyway… to each his own. Serviceable low undercard JTTS in the WWF I would agree with. He was perfectly watchable tagging with El Matador vs the Head Shrinkers.

Except I listed numerous, specific examples of why he was awesome - from 8 different matches - that I think would be pretty hard to disagree with after watching the matches. I didn't just pull any of those reasons out of thin air, they were all things that made him stand out over most other workers on those shows. I'm not advocating he should have been in main events, he was perfect right where he was on the card and making the most of his spot in the pecking order. But to compare him unfavorably with Brian Adams or Stevie Ray makes me think you weren't paying too much attention.

[EricR]

And for those talking Sagrada/Demon, I just recently watched a trios where the tecnico team was Blue Demon Jr., Mascara Sagrada, and Strongman Jon Andersen. It was pretty much the worst thing I've seen all year. None of the tecnicos wanted to show ass, and it was the main event of the card, so the match was literally a 16 minute squash with the tecnicos taking 98% of the offense.

[El-P]

Except I listed numerous, specific examples of why he was awesome - from 8 different matches - that I think would be pretty hard to disagree with after watching the matches. I didn't just pull any of those reasons out of thin air, they were all things that made him stand out over most other workers on those shows. I'm not advocating he should have been in main events, he was perfect right where he was on the card and making the most of his spot in the pecking order. But to compare him unfavorably with Brian Adams or Stevie Ray makes me think you weren't paying too much attention.

I *watched* all those matches before. I thought so little of those that I kept *none* of them on my WCW hard-drive. You think it would be pretty hard to disagree ? Well, I do disagree. It's not the first nor the last time I disagree with the lastest "great lost worker of X era" argument either. But I'm absolutely not getting dragged into that kind of debate at this point.

 

From my own subjective perspective (the Raven fan speaking here, feel the bad taste), Vincent was quite the shitty worker in WCW. And none of the examples you listed, all of which I have seen not so long ago, will make me change my point of view on a matter I don't particulary care for to begin with.

 

BTW, thank you for lecturing me on my lack of attention during Curly Bill matches, but I believe I paid enough attention to be bored to tears, fistdrops galore notwithstanding.

[Death From Above]

If being better than Stevie Ray at working "forgettable midcard WCW bullshit" makes someone a superworker, I wonder where actually good midcarders like Masa Fuchi must rank on the all time list.

[EricR]

Calling him a "lost 90s superworker" was not meant to be a Fujiwara type revelation. All those reviews are within the concept of WCW MNW syndicated shows. And in that vacuum he's definitely a superworker. He understands the goal of his matches on those C and D shows better than almost any of the other workers and over the course of the project he's been one of the most pleasant surprises for me. I cited plenty of reasons why - beyond his cool fistdrops. All you did was whine that one tossed off sentence was tantamount to being "lectured".