flyonthewall2983 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Roddy Piper debut in WCW. Looking back it's not the best way they could have set up the feud, but the way it starts with the bagpipe music almost fading in and Rod taking his time a little to come out was brilliant. I remember actually shaking with excitement when I saw it because I wasn't as smart to what was going on. I knew people were going back and forth, but Piper always struck me as one of Vince's guys when he needed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Hard to believe Hennig was mentioned with no reference to his face turn in '92. Great stuff. It was great, not least because it was done on the quick due to the Warrior fiasco in 1992. It was as well executed and received as possible for Curt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lust Hogan Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I always liked the Wahoo heel turn. He was simply tired of being overlooked. I also liked the Jimmy Garvin face turn when he stuck up for Ronnie after the fireball incident with Jim Cornette and charged into the heel locker room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 - Crush turning on Macho Man. Great feud but disappointing WrestleMania match (supposedly because HBK and Razor took up more time than they were supposed to - not that anyone is crying over that today, because the Ladder Match was an all-time classic) I couldn't get anyone to touch this before: Ok I came across this and it goes against everything I've always heard. For those interested, according to the format sheets, this is what was supposed to happen at Wrestlemania that didn't. First off, it appears the problem wasn't that the matches early went long but that whomever put together the format greatly overestimated how much time they would have for the wrestling aspect of the show. Bret and Owen Hart went 2:00 long in the opener, but that was more than made up when Doink & Dink vs. Bam Bam & Luna went 2:30 short. Savage and Crush went 1:15 long, but again that was made up by the women's match being 3:00 short. Men on Mission vs. Quebecers went :45 under the original planning. Luger and Yokozuna were scheduled for a 25:00 segment (which means about a 23:30 match, which would have been unbearable since they only went 14:40 and that was almost all restholds). At this point they should have been 12 minutes under in time, but instead they were lagging. Earthquake & Bomb were scheduled for a 4:00 segment (or about a 2:30 match), but instead did :35. Ramon and Michaels went :17 long, so they were right on target, yet they had to cancel the 10-man, which was only given 6:00 so even if they had gone on, the plan was to rush through a 4:30 match. By the way, the segment with the heels arguing over who would be the captain was taped hours before the show started and was scheduled to be part of the show, it wasn't a last-minute excuse for not having the match. That was supposed to leave Bret and Yokozuna about 18:30 for their title match, and PTL (praise the Lord) they only had to go out their for 10:36. Who was the practical joker that formatted Yokozuna having to work 42:00 on one show? The only other changes from the plan is that the skit Jennie Garth wouldn't do was a planned deal with her, Rhonda Shear and Shawn Michaels. Burt Reynolds subbed for her and obviously the whole thing was changed. Shawn and Razor only went :17 long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 - Crush turning on Macho Man. Great feud but disappointing WrestleMania match (supposedly because HBK and Razor took up more time than they were supposed to - not that anyone is crying over that today, because the Ladder Match was an all-time classic) I couldn't get anyone to touch this before: Ok I came across this and it goes against everything I've always heard. For those interested, according to the format sheets, this is what was supposed to happen at Wrestlemania that didn't. First off, it appears the problem wasn't that the matches early went long but that whomever put together the format greatly overestimated how much time they would have for the wrestling aspect of the show. Bret and Owen Hart went 2:00 long in the opener, but that was more than made up when Doink & Dink vs. Bam Bam & Luna went 2:30 short. Savage and Crush went 1:15 long, but again that was made up by the women's match being 3:00 short. Men on Mission vs. Quebecers went :45 under the original planning. Luger and Yokozuna were scheduled for a 25:00 segment (which means about a 23:30 match, which would have been unbearable since they only went 14:40 and that was almost all restholds). At this point they should have been 12 minutes under in time, but instead they were lagging. Earthquake & Bomb were scheduled for a 4:00 segment (or about a 2:30 match), but instead did :35. Ramon and Michaels went :17 long, so they were right on target, yet they had to cancel the 10-man, which was only given 6:00 so even if they had gone on, the plan was to rush through a 4:30 match. By the way, the segment with the heels arguing over who would be the captain was taped hours before the show started and was scheduled to be part of the show, it wasn't a last-minute excuse for not having the match. That was supposed to leave Bret and Yokozuna about 18:30 for their title match, and PTL (praise the Lord) they only had to go out their for 10:36. Who was the practical joker that formatted Yokozuna having to work 42:00 on one show? The only other changes from the plan is that the skit Jennie Garth wouldn't do was a planned deal with her, Rhonda Shear and Shawn Michaels. Burt Reynolds subbed for her and obviously the whole thing was changed. Shawn and Razor only went :17 long? Shawn himself said that Savage came up to him afterwards and told him it was a great match but that he was selfish from taking time from other people, didn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 X Pac said in one of his shoots that the ladder match went on too long, and that Savage verbally laid into Michaels backstage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Obviously, what's come out since could be more accurate than 1994 information but that's pretty detailed info Meltzer was throwing out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Wow, interesting stuff with the Meltzer report. Whether he's right or wrong, Savage obviously believed that Shawn was selfish and went over. Not exactly a stretch considering HBK's personality at the time. Plus, I refuse to believe Macho/Crush was supposed to be that short. Makes no sense to me. It felt rushed, even then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 But Macho/Crush was third on the card, way before the ladder match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 - Crush turning on Macho Man. Great feud but disappointing WrestleMania match (supposedly because HBK and Razor took up more time than they were supposed to - not that anyone is crying over that today, because the Ladder Match was an all-time classic) I couldn't get anyone to touch this before: Ok I came across this and it goes against everything I've always heard. For those interested, according to the format sheets, this is what was supposed to happen at Wrestlemania that didn't. First off, it appears the problem wasn't that the matches early went long but that whomever put together the format greatly overestimated how much time they would have for the wrestling aspect of the show. Bret and Owen Hart went 2:00 long in the opener, but that was more than made up when Doink & Dink vs. Bam Bam & Luna went 2:30 short. Savage and Crush went 1:15 long, but again that was made up by the women's match being 3:00 short. Men on Mission vs. Quebecers went :45 under the original planning. Luger and Yokozuna were scheduled for a 25:00 segment (which means about a 23:30 match, which would have been unbearable since they only went 14:40 and that was almost all restholds). At this point they should have been 12 minutes under in time, but instead they were lagging. Earthquake & Bomb were scheduled for a 4:00 segment (or about a 2:30 match), but instead did :35. Ramon and Michaels went :17 long, so they were right on target, yet they had to cancel the 10-man, which was only given 6:00 so even if they had gone on, the plan was to rush through a 4:30 match. By the way, the segment with the heels arguing over who would be the captain was taped hours before the show started and was scheduled to be part of the show, it wasn't a last-minute excuse for not having the match. That was supposed to leave Bret and Yokozuna about 18:30 for their title match, and PTL (praise the Lord) they only had to go out their for 10:36. Who was the practical joker that formatted Yokozuna having to work 42:00 on one show? The only other changes from the plan is that the skit Jennie Garth wouldn't do was a planned deal with her, Rhonda Shear and Shawn Michaels. Burt Reynolds subbed for her and obviously the whole thing was changed. Shawn and Razor only went :17 long? I thought you were just making a joke out of the wording making it seem like the ladder match only lasted 17 seconds in total. That's why I didn't respond before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 With a Meltzer-written article, it's definitely always a possibility. Personally, if I was Shawn, I'd be a lot less worried about Macho Man and a lot more worried about the Headshrinkers. It's more than possible that Dave had access to a booking sheet, right? Something like this: http://imgur.com/a/4Dr3E#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 With a Meltzer-written article, it's definitely always a possibility. Personally, if I was Shawn, I'd be a lot less worried about Macho Man and a lot more worried about the Headshrinkers. Apparently Bob Holly talks about Savage yelling at Shawn & Razor in his book as well. Holly was to have been in the 10 man tag that got scuttled. Savage had the clout to give two of the bigger stars a dressing-down for being selfish. The Headshrinkers wouldn't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Savage had the clout to give two of the bigger stars a dressing-down for being selfish. The Headshrinkers wouldn't have. I guess this wasn't a thing until at least 95, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Maybe it makes sense if we consider that Savage went out there and had a short match on purpose, not because he was told to, but for his own reasons of giving more time to the rest of the crew. Then Michaels went out there, burned time, and stole the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabinski611 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I always felt Macho/Crush could have used a better,longer match. Savage always brought out his best for the big ppvs so you know he could have had a memorable match with Crush. Anyway, 10 surprises/heel turns I liked: 10. Summerslam 88: Brutus Beefcake is unable to wrestle because he was taken out by Ron Bass so The Honkytonk Man has no one to defend the ic title against. He grabs the mic and puts out an open challenge to anyone in the dressing room. The music hits and the Warrior flies down the ring and 30 seconds later we have one of the all time great moments in wwf history and one of the best squash matches I have seen. This was significant because it was a lengthy title reign for Honky and he was extremely over as a heel. It is also a great example of how to get a new babyface over. Before this match, Warrior was wrestling 10 minute horror shows against Hercules. Now he could carry the rocket on his ass to wrestlemania 6. 9. Wrestlemania 8 With a double main event and a hot Savage/Flair match, Hogan/Sid was closing the show. With Hogans popularity declining and the match ending in a dq finish, it was a good thing Vince had a surprise up his sleeve. Papa Shango ran down to interfere to and helped Sid double team Hogan. Then the music hit and making the save was the return of Ultimate Warrior. The fans popped huge instantly forgetting the lackluster match they just watched and prabably the rest of the card as well. The Warrior would only stick around 6 months before leaving again but as stated, this was a great send home happy type moment. More Later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Savage had the clout to give two of the bigger stars a dressing-down for being selfish. The Headshrinkers wouldn't have. I guess this wasn't a thing until at least 95, no? I don't know the historical origins/timeline of BSK. But while Taker would've had the clout to tell of HBK/Razor, Fatu still wouldn't have. It'd be like Savio going after Bret and Lawler for going too long or something. Savage was a legend-in-residence and respected in the room. Fatu, while strong & intimidating, was much farther down the pecking order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Savage had the clout to give two of the bigger stars a dressing-down for being selfish. The Headshrinkers wouldn't have. I guess this wasn't a thing until at least 95, no? Fatu & Godfather in the front. Savio, Godwin, Taker and ??? in the back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Savage had the clout to give two of the bigger stars a dressing-down for being selfish. The Headshrinkers wouldn't have. I guess this wasn't a thing until at least 95, no? Fatu & Godfather in the front. Savio, Godwin, Taker and ??? in the back It's Yoko, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, Yoko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Luger turning on Steamboat at the end of Clash VII is one of my favs. Lex: "No, I don't have any problems, just a lot of pride. Come on Ricky, let's go!" Jim Ross: "Well, Luger's helping him up, OH MY GOD WHAT A CLOTHESLINE!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 why didn't the BSK have the power that the Clique had? <_ there more genuine bad asses in that group> there used to be a pic of the clique and BSK having a manfia style meeting in the back of a bus. Pretty awesome IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stanley Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 The fake retirements of Scott Steiner and mark Henry both got me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnival Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 there used to be a pic of the clique and BSK having a mafia style meeting in the back of a bus. Pretty awesome IIRC "Kevin Nash is a pimp. He never could have outfought Yoko. But I didn't know until this day that it was Michaels all along." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Doesn't really fit with the heel turns/swerves angle, but if you want to talk booking decisions as surprises, Luger going over Hogan clean for the title on Nitro is one of the biggest "holy shit" surprises I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexstar Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Maybe everyone else saw this coming, but Malenko under the Ciclope mask winning the cruiserweight battle royal was pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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