NXT - ARRIVAL

[Loss]

Understood. I meant more from a kayfabe perspective. I think it's good that they send main roster guys there, but a casual fan was watching NXT with me and asked why Cesaro was even there and I had no answer.

[sek69]

From a kayfabe perspective it works better when you have a main roster heel show up and be all "you young kids aren't on my level yet". Then you can have the NXT babyface prove him wrong and at the same time you're telling the fans that this guy can hang with the main roster.

[goodhelmet]

I meant to mention this on the podcast but forgot. I think one of the things I loved about the Cesaro match is that Zayn really couldn't string together a succession of moves because he was damaged goods. He would hit the exploder or the blue thunder but couldn't capitalize because of the injury. Also, cannot be stated enough... Cesaro dissecting the leg was a thing of beauty. It's like he knew Regal was calling the match and it was his personal tribute to Regal.

[Timbo Slice]

It's also important to note that the only time Zayn beat Cesaro WAS on a fluke. And he's spent the last year trying to prove it wasn't. Even in the 2/3 falls match, his only fall came on a flash pin off that boot in the corner. Cesaro's confidence was totally warranted, as was Zayn's faith that he could beat Cesaro because he technically had two pinfalls over Cesaro, albeit after Cesaro had already wrestled and with Cesaro caught off-guard to start the 2/3 falls match. They really know how to make Zayn look good and look like "an equal" to Cesaro while Cesaro is still clearly the more dominant wrestler. I'm not saying the quality is like Misawa/Kawada, but the booking style makes me think of it right away, where Zayn can only get the wins that don't matter that much in the big picture and Cesaro is still the better man.

[Bix]

 

 

I'm glad they showed NXT on Hulu, and now the network. Though I feel the company could destroy what they want to protect. One of the reasons for NXT is to develop new talent and headliners for the WWE. If we can see them every week on T.V before they get to the dance they may be over exposed before they have a chance to make an impact.

 

Paul Levesque addressed this on the conference call he did this week: Anyone they put on the NXT TV show is considered more or less ready to be called up.

I wonder what would happen if Paul Levesque and Wayne Keown did a conference call together?

Wayne Keown is not a WWE executive.

[Matt D]

I meant to mention this on the podcast but forgot. I think one of the things I loved about the Cesaro match is that Zayn really couldn't string together a succession of moves because he was damaged goods. He would hit the exploder or the blue thunder but couldn't capitalize because of the injury. Also, cannot be stated enough... Cesaro dissecting the leg was a thing of beauty. It's like he knew Regal was calling the match and it was his personal tribute to Regal.

 

I liked this too but it made it a little hard to buy into the end when both guys were down for an extended period of time. That was after Zayn hit the boot in the corner right, which should have made it more believable, but Cesaro was selling it more like the end of a lucha brawl than him taking one big stunning shot. It was a little thing but I was trying to think of why I liked it more or less than the 2/3 falls match.

[Loss]

Watching it again, I still think it was a good match, but I also think it was too moves heavy. I remember the impressive spots in Cena/Cesaro really well because they were spaced apart -- dead lift suplex, Cesaro getting out of the first AA attempt and catching Cena with the big boot and Cena's AA setup for the finish -- but I think they could have slowed down here to allow some of the cool stuff they did time to marinate and be remembered. I also really, really didn't like all the fanciness of the rana counter tease stuff because they were too obviously cooperating. I did like how they had counters ready for some of the previous matches, but I don't think that's stuff anyone is going to pick up on except hardcore viewers, and WWE is supposed to appeal to a wide audience. Overall, I thought the match was very good, but more in an indy way than a WWE way.

[Matt D]

I did like how they had counters ready for some of the previous matches, but I don't think that's stuff anyone is going to pick up on except hardcore viewers, and WWE is supposed to appeal to a wide audience. Overall, I thought the match was very good, but more in an indy way than a WWE way.

 

This is a tricky point. Does audience matter?

 

Also the general NXT audience is the one that's seen mostly all the episodes on Hulu. This, I'll admit, was aimed differently. That's why this was a bit of a weird match to start with, since it played so heavily on the past matches

[goodhelmet]

I am going to rewatch it as well today because I don't agree with Loss's point that the big moves were too close together and not memorable. Also, on the live stream, the main hype for the show was the This is NXT Special they have been airing all week on the network that has the 2/3 falls match on it. I know Zayn's signature spots already but I didn't know how they were utilized until I saw the 2/3 falls match. The 2/3 falls match made me not want to miss this show.

[Matt D]

And again, the 2/3 falls match built on what came before it and is a lot richer with that background.

[Loss]

I really like that in principle. If that's going to become a regular thing in WWE style, perhaps we will one day look back at this feud as what started the movement in that direction. The 2/3 falls match is what made me want to tune in as well, for the record.

 

And a better way of phrasing my point than saying I don't think the spots were memorable is to say I don't think the spots were individually memorable in many cases, which is unfortunate because so many of them were so unique and well-executed.

[Timbo Slice]

It's like any series of matches: The more of the series you see, the better the matches at the end of the series become. I think it's really hard to craft a match completely based on previous matches. The wrestlers will have their winks and nods to those who have followed it, but that's just more icing on top of the cake. You could go into that match having never seen those two guys wrestled before and it doesn't take away the fact it was a good match. It's just that piecing together certain parts from their other matches makes it better. I don't think matches are catered to a specific audience in that way.

[Loss]

Agreed. Cesaro cutting off Zayn's corner dive through the middle rope with the forearm is a great spot whether you know the history or not. And that's not an example of what I was talking about with a spot not being memorable for sure. The perfect example would be whatever move that was where Zayn managed to flip something in mid-air where he landed in the dynamic bomb position. That's a highlight reel spot and a potential finisher, but it was just a transitional move and then on to the next one.

[Matt D]

I kind of wonder if the network won't lean towards this. We've seen it in other mediums. There are more shows now that are serialized thanks to on demand/netflix/dvds etc. That would have been almost impossible ten years ago when the big money was getting to syndication and having a show that fit well for that.

 

WWE, over the summer last year, put the entirety of the pre-summerslam Orton vs Bryan matches on youtube, for instance.

[Timbo Slice]

WWE has been a bit more lenient on content being available online and I think that had to do with the Network opening. If they're going for more of that Hulu Plus mentally where it becomes On Demand the day after it runs live, it would make sense.

 

Matt hit on an idea that I think has to be done at some point. If you can build up a big rivalry over a long period of time and you have a big-time blowoff match, putting up all their matches in one spot to watch in chronological order is almost a no-brainer. Hell, some type of wrap-up of everything leading up to any PPV-level match would be great, but that's a hell of a production job to do that for every match on PPV.

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

Really enjoyed NXT Arrival. Antonio "Tiger Uppercut" Casero/Generico was terrific and it seems to me from what I've seen that this is a series that a sig amount of fans outside of NXT have watched. I really liked hearing "Ole" chants. This gives me hope that the "Ole" chants will stick with Generico when he comes up to the main roster. Claudio gives off a danger vibe in every single way perceivable and not perceivable which is a lot of his charm.

[Tim Evans]

 

What's going on with the random So Cal Val sighting? Is she back to her old ways now that TNA has canned her? I also find it amazing how WWE gets damn good production values out of Full Sail while TNA struggles to make a Universal Studios Soundstage look relevant.

She's been at most of the tapings/house shows sitting in the crowd. I'm guessing she's looking for a job or something?

 

[W2BTD]

RE: the match to match psychology of Zayn/Cesaro

 

This is a Zayn trademark, as he is probably the best in the world right now at putting together a story with a long series of matches. He's done the same with Kevin Steen in ROH, Kota Ibushi in DDT, Samuray Del Sol in DGUSA, etc.

[Gus_McCrae]

As someone who hasn't watched hardly any wrestling in the last 5 plus years I was blown away by the Zayn - Cesaro match. In fact I'm completely blown away by the top end of WWE right now. Shield vs Wyatts, Bryan vs Bray, Cena vs Cesaro at the very high end and the a handful of other matches right below it. The Elimination Chamber, Orton vs Bryan, and Orton vs Cesaro. I've never seen a 2 month stretch of this much high end stuff in the 25 years I was following. Maybe their was a 2 months stretch in All Japan in the 90's this good at some point, but it doesn't jump out at me. So much of their high end stuff was spread out a bit. When did the WWE get so good? This really is remarkable.

 

I really liked the pace of the Zayn/Cesaro match. I think Loss made the point above that it was too "mover heavy", I disagree. It is a fine line, but from where I sit they walked up to that line but did not crossed it. It was an excellent blend of in-match narrative, intensity, execution, psychology, packaged around the storyline narrative. Pro-wrestling at its finest.

 

Zayn is so much better now than when he was Generico years ago. Just much crisper in execution than he was 5 or 6 years ago.

 

I don't know where this match falls relative to the Shield vs Wyatts or Bryan vs Bray but it's at that level to me. Really great stuff.

 

The rest of the card was good - but really Zayn and Cesaro was just at another level.

[Ricky Jackson]

It is a fine line, but from where I sit they walked up to that line but did not crossed it.

 

 

That is a good way of putting it. There were movez in the match, but not to the point where I felt there were too many movez. They were spaced out well, similar to the Shield vs Wyatts match IMO.