thebrainfollower Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 The hypocrisy of all this is beyond belief. Watching the Warrior round table now and Ted does at least admit he's said bad things about the Warrior in the past but now they are there to celebrate him. I would love Vince/Linda/Stephanie to be interviewed by a legit reporter who's done their homework and showed footage of the first DVD doc. We'd get another Bob Costas moment I suspect. Hearing Hogan say all these nice things about Warrior is amusing. These people want to see themselves as entertainers and they are. The 2nd generation of carnies. It really makes it hard to be a wrestling fan. I loved them but the more I see of them as people I actually think I hate pro wrestlers from this era as people. With only a few exceptions. For the record I think Warrior was underrated for years as a big match person. But I also think his views make him him utterly reprehensible as a person (but none of them are related to pro wrestling directly, so I have to let that go). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 And now the match with Ted in Japan was a great match according to Ted and HHH was honored and loved doing the job at Mania. These guys should run for office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Am I the only one who hates the Legends of WrestleMania format? Empty comments, followed by clip, more empty comments, another clip, rinse and repeat. The older Legends of Wrestling roundtables had a much looser format and were far more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 As much as I was interesting in hearing Ted and Slaughter's comments, I couldn't watch any more than a few minutes of it (plus Hannibal was on at the same time which is appointment viewing with me anyway) And with Josh Matthews and Booker T. basically holding court, you knew it would swing in the favor of the hypocrisy thebrainfollower speaks of. It's not taking anything away from the doc Thursday night, it's just that it feels like everyone is wearing the rose-tinted glasses now and that wears thin ultimately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 This all comes across as protecting the Ultimate Warrior brand now, since they have money to make off of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 And now the match with Ted in Japan was a great match according to Ted and HHH was honored and loved doing the job at Mania. These guys should run for office. Seriously? HHH is even on WWF-produced videos bitching about WM12 and calling Warrior a "total dickwad". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I actually think that HHH did dig Warrior, and was being a "company guy" when he was insulting him when the old DVD was filmed. Jericho talked about how they were all told to do interviews for that bashed Warrior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I actually think that HHH did dig Warrior, and was being a "company guy" when he was insulting him when the old DVD was filmed. Jericho talked about how they were all told to do interviews for that bashed Warrior. But this wasn't for the Warrior hatchet job DVD. This was for a Wrestlemania retrospective deal. I think it may have been the WM2000 "Wrestlemania all day" because I remember HHH having the belt with him at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Maybe that was him being the uber-heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Ok, so 14 years ago. You don't think HHH was towing the corporate line then? I know that in the minds of lots of fans every single thing a guy has ever said or done has to still be an active factor in what they're like now, but that's actually a fucking insane way to interpret people, especially in the entertainment biz. Shit, let's say, yes...in 2000 HHH really was harboring ill feelings and had bad things to say about Warrior. Why is it so inconceivable that after 14 years his feelings have changed? I know for certain that 14 years ago I said a lot of shit I know was stupid now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 How long will we have to live with this new bullshit narrative? The guy failed on top, was generally awful in ring and fairly reprehensible. Count me out on the rewrite. You're missing the point. NOBODY is trying to say he was a great in ring wrestler or super duper top draw. They are saying he was a larger than life personality who entertained a generation at a special time in wrestling, which isn't a rewrite, it's accurate. Yeah, exactly. I always hated the Ultimate Warrior character and he was definitely a part of me losing interest in wrestling back in the day. But he wasn't FOR me at the time. Over the last two weeks I've really "gotten" how important the guy was to a generation of kids who are now adults. And to me, the fact that a generation lost a a Super Hero that was part of their childhood is a lot more important than me thinking he stunk, he failed on top, or was a crazy nut with his social and political opinions. That shit doesn't fucking matter at all here. The outpouring of emotion from people who felt that Ultimate Warrior was a hero when they were kids and that two young kids lost their Dad is all that matters . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakla Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I actually think that HHH did dig Warrior, and was being a "company guy" when he was insulting him when the old DVD was filmed. Jericho talked about how they were all told to do interviews for that bashed Warrior. But this wasn't for the Warrior hatchet job DVD. This was for a Wrestlemania retrospective deal. I think it may have been the WM2000 "Wrestlemania all day" because I remember HHH having the belt with him at the time. The clip of HHH on the Self-Destruction DVD was from that 2000 special. They put a graphic in the upper corner denoting it was from 2000, not specifically taped for the DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 And to me, the fact that a generation lost a a Super Hero that was part of their childhood is a lot more important than me thinking he stunk, he failed on top, or was a crazy nut with his social and political opinions. That shit doesn't fucking matter at all here. The outpouring of emotion from people who felt that Ultimate Warrior was a hero when they were kids and that two young kids lost their Dad is all that matters . What a bunch of bullshit. How many kids lose their dad every minute everywhere in the world ? Yeah, since we all saw them at the HoF, we feel really bad for a minute or two. And yeah, the Warrior dying brings back memories from when some of us were a bunch of kids. But nostalgia goes a long way. Once the thoughts are rightfully sent to the family, it's time to be fair and point out the guy was a gigantic asshole who harmed and insulted a lot of people by his comments over the years, that he was a shitty worker who delivered a bunch of good matches and a vast majority of unwatchable hours of crap, and that the WWE guys are all shedding crocodile tears now because after years of burying the guy in the dirt (and making money out of it), they just had made a deal with him and were onto the process of making more money from nostalgic old geezers who now are feeling bad because the guy who use to run and shake the ropes and blow up died at 54 after a life of steroid abuse (despite the fact he himself showed no compassion for his peers who died from the same kind of chemical abuse over the years). (Ted DiBiase being a hypocrite leech is nothing new either.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Bob Holly said recently that WWE has decided the Ultimate Warrior's life meant more than Viscera's since he was a bigger star. That's a harsh statement, but it's hard to fault him for saying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Ok, so 14 years ago. You don't think HHH was towing the corporate line then? I know that in the minds of lots of fans every single thing a guy has ever said or done has to still be an active factor in what they're like now, but that's actually a fucking insane way to interpret people, especially in the entertainment biz. Shit, let's say, yes...in 2000 HHH really was harboring ill feelings and had bad things to say about Warrior. Why is it so inconceivable that after 14 years his feelings have changed? I know for certain that 14 years ago I said a lot of shit I know was stupid now. What's more likely? HHH changed his tune on Warrior or saw that he's in a position to make money off of Warrior's legacy now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Bob Holly said recently that WWE has decided the Ultimate Warrior's life meant more than Viscera's since he was a bigger star. That's a harsh statement, but it's hard to fault him for saying it. I won't say one person's life meant more than another, but the fact is, Warrior as a wrestler did mean more to WWE TV programming than Viscera. That can't really be disputed. Also, with Warrior appearing at the HOF, WM, and Raw, he's basically being treated the same way an active talent would. He wasn't on the roster, but he died a day after appearing on a string of shows, so for all intents and purposes, it's more or less the same situation. Active talents who pass away have always gotten more of a tribute than people who haven't been there in years. Obviously, with the Network, they have more time to create specials, etc. now. I think the same thing would have been done for Owen and Eddy if the Network had been around back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnj Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 And to me, the fact that a generation lost a a Super Hero that was part of their childhood is a lot more important than me thinking he stunk, he failed on top, or was a crazy nut with his social and political opinions. That shit doesn't fucking matter at all here. The outpouring of emotion from people who felt that Ultimate Warrior was a hero when they were kids and that two young kids lost their Dad is all that matters . What a bunch of bullshit. How many kids lose their dad every minute everywhere in the world ? Yeah, since we all saw them at the HoF, we feel really bad for a minute or two. And yeah, the Warrior dying brings back memories from when some of us were a bunch of kids. But nostalgia goes a long way. Once the thoughts are rightfully sent to the family, it's time to be fair and point out the guy was a gigantic asshole who harmed and insulted a lot of people by his comments over the years, that he was a shitty worker who delivered a bunch of good matches and a vast majority of unwatchable hours of crap, and that the WWE guys are all shedding crocodile tears now because after years of burying the guy in the dirt (and making money out of it), they just had made a deal with him and were onto the process of making more money from nostalgic old geezers who now are feeling bad because the guy who use to run and shake the ropes and blow up died at 54 after a life of steroid abuse (despite the fact he himself showed no compassion for his peers who died from the same kind of chemical abuse over the years). (Ted DiBiase being a hypocrite leech is nothing new either.) So, according to you, immediately after having put all that work into reconciling with Warrior and getting him to appear at the HOF, WWE should have randomly and pointlessly gone back to burying him because it's what they were doing a decade prior and it's impossible for anyone to reevaluate their opinions about him after meeting him again or seeing him die young. Genius. But, let's presuppose that they're all heartless assholes just putting on a facade to protect their property. So what? Wouldn't it be far more worthy of criticism if, in the midst of the public outpouring and right after showing his family on TV, the company had simply ignored his death or responded by burying him? If fans enjoy the material they're releasing like the new doc, I don't see why their intent matters. Much of this thread just comes across as people getting on a moral high horse and circle-jerking at how much better they are than those carny bastards, and it looks ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I honestly couldn't care less about what the WWE does with the Warrior image before or after his death. But the level of hypocrisy, crocodile tears and misplaced sensibility just makes me chuckle. Had he died just before they cut a deal with him, he would have been happy to get a mention on Raw and they probably would have pimped The Self-Destruction again. It's all business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 To all the people bitching about how phony this is coming off, what are you actually expecting to see? Can you imagine how awful it would look if Vince and Triple H went back to 2007 mode on Warrior after he passed away? If they would have went through all of this weekend with the Warrior and then treated like Viscera with a 3 second RIP picture. Talk about a no win situation. It is like you want a cookie for having this Meltzer mentality of saying "I thought he was an asshole in 2007 and I still think he is an asshole in 2014 so look at me everybody". Yeah he was a crazy asshole but does anyone knows it was still the same way in 2014? And while Bob Holly is absolutely correct in what he saying, welcome to all sports or forms of entertainment. I am sure yesterday a former MLB, NFL, or NBA player died that nobody except their relatives and friends thought about deeply. While it would nice to have at least a one hour special on the network for all former WWE stars that pass away, I just don't see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I can buy HHH's crocodile tears, but Vince is another story. I can't recall him ever breaking down as he did like that on camera before. It wasn't a Barbara Walters thing but you could just tell that in his eyes he was feeling something pretty deep. The thing is though, I don't know what he's mourning more, Jim Hellwig/Warrior the man or the creation of his dying. Maybe that, and him driving along with Taker going to the hospital is a reminder of his own mortality in some strange way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I honestly could care less about what the WWE does with the Warrior image before or after his death. But the level of hypocrisy, crocodile tears and misplaced sensibility just makes me chuckle. Had he died just before they cut a deal with him, he would have been happy to get a mention on Raw and they probably would have pimped The Self-Destruction again. It's all business. You could NOT care less. Could NOT. Somewhat makes it hard to take the rest of your statement seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Well if you hated a person in life and they die you should, IMO, keep your darn mouth shut. Slaughter said some mixed things about Warrior so I have no problem with him being in a panel celebrating Warrior. But Dibiase ticks me off, he is a total hypocrite to reverse himself 180 degrees without explaining why. A match cannot go from terrible to great just because someone died. HHH I cannot stand but in this case, I can see where he is coming from. He sees his job as to repair the burned bridges of Vince McMahon. And he's been remarkably successful with the two biggest ones, including one who treated him like a jerk and stepped on him when he was nothing more than the clique's bag boy. And then the day after his efforts bear fruition the guy dies. That's gotta be hard to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Is the match that Dibase is talking about the one in Japan on the Greatest Matches show on Tuesday or Wednesday? If so then I don't see what he is complaining about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 It is. See the Japanese crowd is actually mocking the match with their chanting. Hence it's a bad match. Until the Warrior died and it suddenly became a good match in Ted's eyes. He HAD to bring that up. Had to expose himself as a hypocrite. Had to break poor Jerry Von Kramer's heart (and he should have or shame on you Parv) He could have just said that wasn't a good match but the Main Event one really was. Warrior really improved between the two. It's not that hard really. Has anyone seen the Warrior-Slaughter Japan match? Does the same mockery happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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