BillThompson Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I've been doing a lot of linear title stuff lately. It's all a bunch of nonsense, but it's fun nonsense. The more work I did on various feds the more I decided I wanted to do all the world titles, heavyweight and tag, to get a good idea of how close we are to having a true unified world champion. So far I've worked on linear titles for the WWF, NWA, WWE, AWA, ECW, and TNA. I'm thinking of doing more but I want to limit it to actual world titles. I don;t think there's any way to actually gauge which titles were legit world titles, but a general consensus, or at least idea, would be nice. So which feds would you say were/are prominent enough for their titles to be considered world titles? (I'm even wondering if AJPW would count since technically the three titles that make up the triple crown are NWA regional titles, aren't they?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The Triple Crown is made up of the NWA United National, the NWA International Heavyweight and the Pacific Wrestling Federation World Heavyweight titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well, it was. Didn't they get rid of those belts and replace them in the early 2000s? Or do they still call them by the same names, just with different visual belts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 And to answer your post, I would say that before its downfall the NWA World title was definitely the most prestigious and important world title ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think the Triple Crown was still represented by all 3 physical belts until last year, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I remember the status of the ECW title being a huge point of contention in PWI. PWI finally recognized their title as a world title in 1999 when they landed the deal with TNN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 WWA/LA is usually considered a World Title by historians. If you go far enough back the various claimants and weird stuff from town-to-town starts to hurt your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 You can call the AWA Title a WORLD Title...its tied to the Omaha version of the NWA Title (Carpentier controversy) (and was merged with it). IT was defended and won in Japan, Canada, US, etc... So that says World title to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I remember the status of the ECW title being a huge point of contention in PWI. PWI finally recognized their title as a world title in 1999 when they landed the deal with TNN.Remember when PWI "demoted" the WWF title from a world title because " Backlund, ( and then Hogan), didn't defend the title against other fan favorites." LOL. It was a few years into Hogan's reign before they "reinstated world title status" to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I would agree on NWA World Title being the most prestigious. Being the All japan-ophile that I am I would put the Triple Crown right behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not completely relevant, but I have my own little criteria for defining "true" world titles. 1) It must be referred to as a world title in at least one major company (a company with an international presence, eg, a company known outside of it's native country, that has held events in foreign countries) 2) I must be held by at least one man/woman not native to the country of the title's origin. 3) It must be defended in at least one foreign country. 3) It must be active for an accumulative period of at least 10 years (not necessarily as a world title, but as long as it's recognised at some point as one) With that in mind (some of the ones of the top of my head): WWE World Heavyweight Championship (WWE, Bruno Sammartino, Canada, 50 years) (WWE, Chris Benoit, Canada, 11 years) WCW World Heavyweight Championship (WCW, Bret Hart, United Kingdom, 10 years) ECW World Heavyweight Championship (WWE, Jimmy Snuka, Canada, 13 years) NWA World Heavyweight Championship (NWA, Leo Nomellini, Canada, 66 years) IWGP Heavyweight Championship (NJPW, Vader, North Korea, 27 years) Triple Crown Heavyweight Championship (AJPW, Terry Gordy, China, 25 years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think the Triple Crown was still represented by all 3 physical belts until last year, right? Yes, and per the last Observer they are looking to ask Mrs. Baba for the originals back after the sort of reverse-coup that just went down in All Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not completely relevant, but I have my own little criteria for defining "true" world titles. 1) It must be referred to as a world title in at least one major company (a company with an international presence, eg, a company known outside of it's native country, that has held events in foreign countries) 2) I must be held by at least one man/woman not native to the country of the title's origin. 3) It must be defended in at least one foreign country. 3) It must be active for an accumulative period of at least 10 years (not necessarily as a world title, but as long as it's recognised at some point as one) Wouldn't the RoH title count? It was recognized by NJ (JUUUUST now, of course), Held by McGuinness, Morishima, and Steen. Defended in a ton of countries at this point. Active for 12+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not completely relevant, but I have my own little criteria for defining "true" world titles. 1) It must be referred to as a world title in at least one major company (a company with an international presence, eg, a company known outside of it's native country, that has held events in foreign countries) 2) I must be held by at least one man/woman not native to the country of the title's origin. 3) It must be defended in at least one foreign country. 3) It must be active for an accumulative period of at least 10 years (not necessarily as a world title, but as long as it's recognised at some point as one) With that in mind: WWE World Heavyweight Championship (WWE, Bruno Sammartino, Canada, 50 years) (WWE, Chris Benoit, Canada, 11 years) WCW World Heavyweight Championship (WCW, Bret Hart, United Kingdom, 10 years) ECW World Heavyweight Championship (WWE, Jimmy Snuka, Canada, 13 years) NWA World Heavyweight Championship (NWA, Leo Nomellini, Canada, 66 years) IWGP Heavyweight Championship (NJPW, Vader, North Korea, 27 years) Triple Crown Heavyweight Championship (AJPW, Terry Gordy, China, 25 years) AWA World Heavyweight Titile (AWA, Jumbo Tsuruta, Japan, 30+ Years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Funny enough, Kelly and I were discussing the World title on Facebook last night. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing an excerpt from that exchange here: Me: Everyone's talking about Daniel Bryan, but I think Ali Baba is a really underrated worker, and Red Brannigan ... did you know Ali Baba was a former world champ? He beat Dick Shikat Him: Couldn't say that I did, but there seem to have been several different world titles and several champions in the pre NWA years Me: Ali Baba was from the George Hackenschmidt lineage This is the main title, I think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_early_world_heavyweight_champions_in_professional_wrestling Him: pre NWA history is pretty fuzzy for me outside of the biggest names Me: Seems remarkable that there's 30s footage, and quite a bit of it. Did they put them before films at the cinema? A bit like old WB cartoons Him: Yep, part of pre-feature attraction stuff, with newsreels and cartoons Me: So there was another world title, this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heavyweight_Championship_(National_Wrestling_Association) Something suspect there though, look. Him: Also this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWA_World_Heavyweight_Championship_Boston_Version Me: Ohhhh, that makes sense. Danno O'Mahoney beat Londos and then beat Ed Lewist and then Ed Don George. Chris Jeircho eat your heart out O'Mahoney was undisputed champ for a while there, then dropped it to Dick Shikat who dropped it to Ali Baba, but then something happens ... O'Mahoney drops the Boston version to Yvon Robert Him: Yeah, Danno was a cash cow for the promoters, but couldn't legit wrestle at all. Shikat took the title from him at MSG in a famous double cross where he made Danno shoot tap out Me: Ali Baba drops the 1905 Hackenschmidt version to Dave Levin; and he drops the Londos version to Everett Marshall ... like a multipurpose Iron Sheik transitional champ. I wonder if Danno O'Mahony really invented the Irish whip. Him: There is a real good history of Danno online somewhere I read before. I'll see if I can find it. Me: Talk about lost and forgotten workers. Anyway, I bring this up because the 1905 "Catch-as-catch-can" title -- the one that Hackenschmidt and Gotch wrestled over -- you'd think would be the big one before the NWA title. And the lineage is theoretically there through Thesz as the last champ of that belt and the first champ of the NWA belt. Of the other world titles, the Jim Londos "National Wrestling Association" title existed from 1930 to 1949 when it was unified with the Thesz belt. The Boston version of the AWA world title ran from 1928 when Ed "Strangler" Lewis held it to 1950 when Don Eagle was the last champion. Gorgeous George held this belt for a short time. It seems to split off from the Hackenschmidt World title line some time in 1936. QUESTION: When the three belts were active at the same time, which one was considered the most prestigious? You'd THINK it was the Hackenscmidt title, but Londos held the National Wrestling Alliance title for the longest time and was the biggest draw of the era. To help answer this, I've found some stats over on KM: http://www.infinitecore.ca/superstar/index.php?threadid=73365 Here is a look at the top 10 largest drawing matches for the 1930's! 1930 **9/02 Jim Londos vs Boris Demitroff- World Title Municipal Stadium, Baltimore MD 32,000 (Matches part of Atletic Carnival sponsored by VFW. Wrestling conclude evenings activities.) 1- 12/29 Jim Londos vs Ference Holuban- NY World Title MSG, New York City NY 22,000 ($44,878. 5,000 Turned Away. Jack Curley) 2- 11/17 Jim Londos vs Gino Garibaldi- NY World Title MSG, New York City NY 20,000* (19,715 Paid. Jack Curley) 3- 5/05 Gus Sonnenberg vs Everett Marshall- AWA Title Wrigley Field, Los Angeles CA 17,580 ($69,745.50 California Gate Record. Also reported as 16,880 $68,830. Lou Daro) 4- 4/24 Gus Sonnenberg vs Count Zarynoff- AWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 15,000 (Paul Bowser) 5- 6/06 Dick Shikat vs Jim Londos- NWA & NY World Title Change Shibe Park, Philadelphia PA 15,000 (13,115 Paid $43,622.20 Ray Fabiani) 6- 3/20 Gus Sonnenberg vs Henri DeGlane- AWA Title Boston Arena, Boston MA 12,500 ($25,000 Paul Bowser) 7- 2/19 Gus Sonnenberg vs Joe Stecher- AWA Title Coral Gables Coliseum, Coral Gables FL 12,000 ($50,000 Elwood R. Rigby) 8- 12/19 Milo Steinborn vs Rudy Dusek Boston Arena, Boston MA 12,000 (Paul Bowser) 9- 12/26 Jim Londos vs Tiny Roebuck- NY World Title The Arena, Philadelphia PA 11,000* ($20,213. Thousands Turned Away. Ray Fabiani) 10- 5/18 Gus Sonnenberg vs Ed Lewis- AWA Title Auditorium AC, Kansas City MO 11,000 (Un-verified) 1931 1- 7/30 Henri DeGlane vs Gus Sonnenberg- AWA Title Braves Field, Boston MA 30,000 $64,239 Paul Bowser) 2- 7/14 Henri DeGlane vs Ed Don George- AWA Title Braves Field, Boston MA 25,000 (Paul Bowser) 3- 8/25 Jim Londos vs Dick Shikat- NWA & NY World Title Municipal Stadium, Philadelphia PA 25,000 (Ray Fabiani) 4- 2/23 Jim Londos vs Jim McMillen- NY World Title MSG, New York City NY 22,500* ($54,738. Jack Curley) 5- 1/26 Jim Londos vs Jim McMillen- NY World Title MSG, New York City NY 22,200* ($59,496 Jack Curley) 6- 9/30 Jim Londos vs Hans Kampfer- NWA Title St. Louis Stadium, St. Louis MO 22,000* (Tom Packs) 7- 11/25 Jim Londos vs Hans Kampfer- NWA Title St. Louis MO 22,000* (Tom Packs) 8- 6/29 Jim Londos vs Ray Steele- NY World Title Yankee Stadium, New York City NY 21,000 ($63,000 Jack Curley) 9- 4/22 Jim Londos vs Kola Kwariani- NWA Title Chicago Stadium, Chicago IL 17,250 ($34,419) 10- 3/23 Jim Londos vs Herb Freeman- NY World Title MSG, New York City NY 17,000 (Jack Curley) 1932 1- 6/09 Ed Lewis vs Dick Shikat- World Title vs NY World Title MSG Bowl, Long Island NY 25,901 ($65,000 Jack Curley & Doc Krone) 2- 5/23 Tom Lurich vs Leon Labriola Leichhardt Stadium, South Wales Australia 20,000* (Over 1,500 Turned Away. Record Crowd. Richard Lean) 3- 7/21 Henri DeGlane vs Jack Washburn- AWA Title Braves Field, Boston MA 20,000 ($26,000 Paul Bowser) 4- 1/15 Jim Londos vs George Zaharis- NWA Title MLG, Toronto ONT 17,000* (MLG SRO Attendane Record. Jack Corcoran) 5- 1/25 Jim Londos vs Sammy Stein- NY World Title MSG, New York City NY 15,000 (Jack Curley) 6- 4/07 Henri DeGlane vs Ed Don George- AWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 15,000* (Paul Bowser) 7- 4/27 Jim Londos vs Jack Washburn- NWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 15,000 (Ray Fabiani) 8- 6/30 Henri DeGlane vs Ed Don George- AWA Title Braves Field, Boston MA 15,000 (Paul Bowser) 9- 11/24 Henri DeGlane vs Nick Lutze- AWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 15,000 (Paul Bowser) 10- 1/21 Henri DeGlane vs Nick Lutze- AWA Title Boston Arena, Boston MA 14,000* (4,000 Turned Away. Paul Bowser) 1933 1- 10/22 Jim Londos vs Kola Kwariani- NWA Title George Tragos Ref Athens Stadium, Athens Greece 60,000 (May have drawn well over that amount.) 2- 1/13 Henri DeGlane vs Gus Sonnenberg- AWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 22,000* (5,000 Turned Away. Largest crowd in history of Boston Gardens. Paul Bowser) 3- 6/06 Jim Londos vs Dick Shikat- NWA Title Philadelphia Arena, Philadelphia PA 20,000 (Ray Fabiani) 4- 7/18 Ed Don George vs Henri DeGlane- AWA Title Braves Field, Boston MA 20,000 (Paul Bowser) 5- 3/04 Jim Londos vs Joe Stecher- NWA Title Chicago Stadium, Chicago IL 16,800 ($29,579 Doc Krone) 6- 1/18 Jim Londos vs Everett Marshall- NWA Title St. Louis Coliseum, St. Louis MO 16,500 (15,429 Paid $19,629 Tom Packs) 7- 3/20 Jim Browning vs Ed Lewis- NY World Title MSG, New York City NY 15,000 ($16,500 Jack Curley) 8- 12/15 Jim Londos vs Everett Marshall- NWA Title Convention Hall, Philadelphia PA 15,000 9- 2/28 Jim Browning vs Mike Mazurki- NY World Title New York Coliseum, Bronx NY 14,000* (Building Record. Jack Curley) 10- 8/28 Jim Browning vs Sammy Stein- NY World Title Wrigley Field, Los Angeles CA 14,000 (Lou Daro) 1934 1- 9/20 Jim Londos vs Ed Lewis- NY & NWA Title Wrigley Field, Chicago IL 35,265 ($96,302 Gate Record. Ed White) 2- 7/18 Jim Londos vs Ed Don George- NWA & NY & NBA World Titles vs AWA Title Fenway Park, Boston MA 28,000 to 30,000 ($60,115 Paul Bowser) 3- 10/10 Jim Londos vs Man Mountain Dean- NWA Title Wrigley Field, Los Angeles CA 23,765 ($40,922. State Gate & Attendance Record. Lou Daro announced 38,756 CSAC announced 23,765) 4- 6/25 Jim Londos vs Jim Browning- NWA Title vs NY World Title & NBA World Title Unification Match MSG Bowl, Long Island NY 20,000 to 25,000 ($40,000 Jack Curley) 5- 1/30 Jim Londos vs Joe Savoldi- NWA Title Chicago Stadium, Chicago IL 20,206 ($33,000 Ed White) 6- 1/26 Jim Londos vs Joe Stecher- NWA Title Olympia Stadium, Detroit MI 16,750 (Adam Weissmuller) 7- 2/02 Jim Londos vs Gus Sonnenberg- NWA Title St. Louis Arena, St. Louis MO 15,666 ($17,339 Tom Packs) 8- 02/09 Jim Londos vs Everett Marshall- NWA Title World Trade Convention Hall, Philadelphia PA 15,000* (5,000 Turned Away. Ray Fabiani) 9- 12/10 Jim Londos vs Dick Shikat- NWA Title MSG, New York City NY 14,000 ($21,000 Jack Curley) 10- 1/12 Jim Londos vs Joe Stecher- NWA Title Olympia Stadium, Detroit MI 13,157 (Adam Weissmuller) 1935 1- 7/30 Danno O'Mahoney vs Ed Don George- NWA Title vs AWA Title James J Braddock Ref Fenway Park, Boston MA 40,000 ($60,000 Paul Bowser) 2- 10/12 Vincent Lopez vs Man Mountain Dean- CA World Title Plaza de Toros Mexico, Mexico City Mexico 35,000 ($100,000 Salvador Lutteroth) 3- 6/27 Jim Londos vs Danno O'Mahoney- NWA & NY World Title Change Fenway Park, Boston MA 25,000 to 30,000 ($61,000 Paul Bowser) 4- 9/11 Danno O'Mahoney vs Ed Don George- World Title Fenway Park, Boston MA 25,000 (postponed from 9/09. Paul Bowser) 5- 5/12 Jim Londos vs El Enmascarado Rojo (Joe Cox)- NWA Title Plaza de Toros el Toreo, Mexico City Mexico 22,000 6- 3/29 Danno O'Mahoney vs George Zaharias Boston Gardens, Boston MA 20,000* (SRO Turn Away. Paul Bowser) 7- 4/26 Danny O'Mahoney vs Ed Lewis Boston Gardens, Boston MA 20,000* (Riot after the match. Paul Bowser) 8- 5/24 Danno O'Mahoney vs Gus Sonnenberg Boston Gardens, Boston MA 18,000 (Paul Bowser) 9- 1/18 Danno O'Mahoney vs Rudy Dusek Boston Gardens, Boston MA 16,000 (Paul Bowser) 10- 1/04 Danno O'Mahoney vs Ernie Dusek Boston Gardens, Boston MA 15,000 (O'Mahoney's US Debut. Paul Bowser) 10- 11/16 Jim Londos vs Johannes VanDer Walt- World Title Durban South Africa 15,000 1936 1- 2/28 Danno O'Mahoney vs Yvon Robert- AWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 20,000* (Paul Bowser) 2- 8/09 Danno O'Mahoney vs Rube Wright- AWA Title Dalemount Park, Dublin Ireland 20,000 3- 8/19 Dave Levin vs Vincent Lopez- CA World Title vs NY World Title Wrigley Field, Los Angeles CA 15,321 (13,784 Paid $20,723. Lou Daro) 4- 4/17 Danno O'Mahoney vs Yvon Robert- AWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 13,000 (Paul Bowser) 5- 9/30 Yvon Robert vs Cy Williams- World Title Montreal Forum, Montreal QUE 12,800 (Jack Ganson) 6- 11/16 Ed Don George vs Earl McCready Carlaw Park, Aukland New Zealand 12,000 7- 8/26 Danno O'Mahoney vs Charley Strack- AWA Title Killamey Race Course, Dublin Ireland 10,600 8- 7/16 Danno O'Mahoney vs Yvon Robert- AWA Title Change Montreal Forum, Montreal QUE 10,500 ($11,000 O'Mahoney lost but still claimed title. Jack Ganson) 9- 9/23 Danno O'Mahoney vs Yvon Robert- AWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 10,500 (Some estimates as high as 11,000. Paul Bowser) 10- 9/30 Vincent Lopez vs Dave Levin- CA World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,400* (3,000 Turned Away. Lou Daro) 1937 ** Al Perreira vs Kola Kwariani- Heavyweight Title Palais des Sports, Paris France 18,000 1- 11/06 Jim Londos vs Johannes VanDer Walt- International Title Panathenaic Stadium, Athens Greece 40,000 2- 10/04 Jim Londos vs George Penchoff- World Title 5th Regiment Armory, Baltimore MD 15,000 ($30,000 State Gate Record. Police Benefit.) 3- 10/18 Yvon Robert vs Felix Miquet- AWA Title Montreal Forum, Montreal QUE 15,000 (Jack Ganson) 4- 8/11 Bronko Nagurski vs Vincent Lopez- CA World Title Wrigley Field, Los Angeles CA 13,628 ($23,000. Lou Daro) 5- 1/30 Jim Londos vs Johannes VanDer Walt- International Title Durban Kingsmead Cricket Grounds, Durban South Africa 13,000 6- 4/15 Everett Marshall vs Ali Baba- NWA Title St. Louis Arena, St. Louis MO 12,687 (Tom Packs) 7- 11/22 Yvon Robert vs Bob Wagner- AWA Title Jack Dempsey Ref Montreal Forum, Montreal QUE 12,000 (Jack Ganson) 8- 11/26 Jim Londos vs Ali Baba- International Title Olympia Stadium, Detroit MI 11,828 ($21,598 Nick Londes) 9- 2/21 Jim Londos vs Johannes VanDer Walt- International Title South Africa 11,352 10- 11/06 Ted Cox vs Sammy Stein Rushcutters Bay Stadium, Sydney Australia 11,000* (Dick Lean) 1938 1- 8/26 Steve Casey vs Danno O'Mahoney- NWA Title Miltown, Dublin Ireland 16,000 2- 2/11 Lou Thesz vs Steve Casey- NWA Title Change Boston Gardens, Boston MA 14,000 (Said to be largest crowd at the Garden in more than two years. Paul Bowser) 3- 1/26 Lou Thesz vs Everett Marshall- NWA Title St. Louis Arena, St. Louis MO 12,262 (Tom Packs) 4- 4/06 Lou Thesz vs Everett Marshall Kiel Auditorium, St. Louis MO 12,099* (Kiel Auditorium Attendance Record. Tom Packs) 5- 9/16 Tarzan Lopez vs Don Hill (5th Anniversary) Arena Mexico, Mexico City Mexico 12,000* (Salvador Lutteroth) 6- 9/22 Jack O'Brien vs Pete Pancoff Arena Mexico, Mexico City Mexico 12,000* (Salvador Lutteroth) 7- 5/19 Steve Casey vs Yvon Robert- NWA Title Boston Gardens, Boston MA 12,000 (Paul Bowser) 8- 9/14 Masked Marvel (Ted Cox) vs Yvon Robert- World Title Change Montreal Forum, Montreal QUE 12,000 (Jack Ganson) 9- 11/10 Orville Brown vs John Pesek- MWA Title Fairgrounds Coliseum, Columbus OH 10,420 (Police Benefit) 10- 3/23 Bronko Nagurski vs Vincent Lopez Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,400* (Lou Daro) 10- 8/17 Bronko Nagurski vs Sandor Szabo- CA World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,400* (Lou Daro) 1939 1- 3/27 Bholu Pahalwan vs Ahmad Baksh- Sardar Abdus Gayoni Judge Minto Park, Lahore Pakistan 20,000 2- 9/04 Bob Wagner vs Jack Hader Griffith Stadium, Washington DC 15,313 3- 6/14 Mildred Burke vs Lupe Acosta- Womens Title Plaza de Toros en Monumental, Monterrey Mexico 14,000 4- 2/23 Everett Marshall vs Lou Thesz- NWA Title Change Keil Auditorium, St. Louis MO 12,100 ($19,021. Tom Packs) 5- 7/18 Murcielago Velazquez vs Octavio Gaona- Mask vs Hair Match Arena Mexico, Mexico City Mexico 12,000* (Salvador Lutteroth) 6- 9/14 Ciclon Veloz vs Bobby Aneola- National Welterweight Title Change (6th Anniversary) Arena Mexico, Mexico City Mexico 11,000 (Salvador Lutteroth) 7- 1/11 Jim Londos vs Hard Boiled Haggerty- World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,400* (Lou Daro) 8- 11/08 Jim Londos vs Sandor Szabo- World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,400* (Lou Daro) 9- 3/17 Jim Londos vs Golden Terror- World Title Philadelphia Arena, Philadelphia PA 10,000 (Ray Fabiani) 10- 1/23 Hans Steinke vs Babe Zaharias/ Golden Terror vs Tommy O'Toole Convention Hall, Camden NJ 10,000 10- 4/05 Jim Londos vs Tarzan White- World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,000 (Jack Daro) 10- 3/22 Jim Londos vs Dean Detton- World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,000 (Jack Daro) Notice how many of these gates are for the AWA Boston or the National Wrestling Association title. As far as I can see, the only bouts for the Hackenschmidt 1905 lineage World title are: 9/11/35 Danno O'Mahoney vs Ed Don George- World Title Fenway Park, Boston MA 25,000 (postponed from 9/09. Paul Bowser) 9/30/36 Yvon Robert vs Cy Williams- World Title Montreal Forum, Montreal QUE 12,800 (Jack Ganson) 10/04/37 Jim Londos vs George Penchoff- World Title 5th Regiment Armory, Baltimore MD 15,000 ($30,000 State Gate Record. Police Benefit.) 9/14/38 Masked Marvel (Ted Cox) vs Yvon Robert- World Title Change Montreal Forum, Montreal QUE 12,000 (Jack Ganson) And then these dates in 1939 when Jim Londos won that tile: 1/11 Jim Londos vs Hard Boiled Haggerty- World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,400* (Lou Daro) 11/08 Jim Londos vs Sandor Szabo- World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,400* (Lou Daro) 3/17 Jim Londos vs Golden Terror- World Title Philadelphia Arena, Philadelphia PA 10,000 (Ray Fabiani) 1/23 Hans Steinke vs Babe Zaharias/ Golden Terror vs Tommy O'Toole Convention Hall, Camden NJ 10,000 4/05 Jim Londos vs Tarzan White- World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,000 (Jack Daro) 3/22 Jim Londos vs Dean Detton- World Title Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles CA 10,000 (Jack Daro) So based on that, the titles that people seemed to really care about in the 1930s were, in order of importance: 1. National Wrestling Association title - this is the one derived from the NY State Athletic Commission world title held by Jim London from 1930 to 1935 and then it was briefly unified with the other titles by Danno O'Mahoney. During the early 1930s, there's seems to have been a dispute, however, between the NY World Title and the CA World Title, which I believe were both under this "NWA" (Association) banner. 2. The AWA (Boston Version) World title - Boston looks like it consistently had the biggest gates in the period and after the time when Danno O'Mahoney held all three titles -- and he dropped the other two -- this was the one that seemed to be drawing higher than the others. 3. The Hackenschmidt 1905 World title - This looks like a distinct third based on the numbers provided here. At a time when Danno O'Mahoney was contesting all three titles in 1935 and 1936, this one only features TWICE in the top ten gates. It only really starts to feature more prominently when Jim Londos wins the title, and surely you can put that down to it being Londos elevating the title. Any thoughts on these matters appreciated. NB. The "NWA" mentioned in the world title here should not be confused with the NWA we all know and love, the "National Wrestling Alliance", which was formed in 1948. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu_chipmunk Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not completely relevant, but I have my own little criteria for defining "true" world titles. 1) It must be referred to as a world title in at least one major company (a company with an international presence, eg, a company known outside of it's native country, that has held events in foreign countries) 2) I must be held by at least one man/woman not native to the country of the title's origin. 3) It must be defended in at least one foreign country. 3) It must be active for an accumulative period of at least 10 years (not necessarily as a world title, but as long as it's recognised at some point as one) With that in mind: WWE World Heavyweight Championship (WWE, Bruno Sammartino, Canada, 50 years) (WWE, Chris Benoit, Canada, 11 years) WCW World Heavyweight Championship (WCW, Bret Hart, United Kingdom, 10 years) ECW World Heavyweight Championship (WWE, Jimmy Snuka, Canada, 13 years) NWA World Heavyweight Championship (NWA, Leo Nomellini, Canada, 66 years) IWGP Heavyweight Championship (NJPW, Vader, North Korea, 27 years) Triple Crown Heavyweight Championship (AJPW, Terry Gordy, China, 25 years) AWA World Heavyweight Titile (AWA, Jumbo Tsuruta, Japan, 30+ Years) UWA World Heavyweight Championship (UWA, Lou Thesz, Japan, 18+ years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The ones that I have done, or plan on doing, are: WWE, WWF, TNA, ECW, AWA, NWA, WCW, IWGP, and probably the PWF part of the triple Crown. That's before this topic though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, I don't think, but what about the IWA World Heavyweight Title from Australia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, I don't think, but what about the IWA World Heavyweight Title from Australia? If we're mentioning that, we might as well also mention the WWA title from out of LA in the 50s and 60s. This was held by, among others, Eduard Carpentier, Fred Blassie, Rikidozan, Bobo Brazil, The Destroyer, Iron Mike DiBiase, and that man again Lou Thesz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The UWA title mentioned above, that's not the Mexican promotion right, but a different fed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, I don't think, but what about the IWA World Heavyweight Title from Australia? If we're mentioning that, we might as well also mention the WWA title from out of LA in the 50s and 60s. This was held by, among others, Eduard Carpentier, Fred Blassie, Rikidozan, Bobo Brazil, The Destroyer, Iron Mike DiBiase, and that man again Lou Thesz. Dylan mentioned this title earlier, which I also agree should be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The differing titles from the Danno O'Mahoney/Jim Londos era sounds a lot like boxing's WBA/WBC/IBF mess. You might be able to track a linear champion. But the biggest champion changes from champion to champion, year to year and even month to month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu_chipmunk Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The UWA title mentioned above, that's not the Mexican promotion right, but a different fed? I was referring to the Mexican promotion. Thesz was the first "official" champion, before dropping the title to Canek in 1978. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Al, there is a lot of stuff about certain titles not being recognised in certain areas and it seems like some of the matches were built around that. Questions over who is the real world champ etc. O'Mahoney was recognised as undisputed champ for a while in 1935 but that was short lived. I've also seen different lineages for these titles... For example, some sources don't seem to recognise Ali Baba's run with the titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Wouldn't the RoH title count? It was recognized by NJ (JUUUUST now, of course), Held by McGuinness, Morishima, and Steen. Defended in a ton of countries at this point. Active for 12+ years. Yes, you are quite right. Hmm, that's quite interesting, I wonder how many we can add to the list based on my earlier stated criteria? WWE World Heavyweight Championship (WWE, Bruno Sammartino, Canada, 50 years) (WWE, Chris Benoit, Canada, 11 years) WCW World Heavyweight Championship (WCW, Bret Hart, United Kingdom, 10 years) ECW World Heavyweight Championship (WWE, Jimmy Snuka, Canada, 13 years) NWA World Heavyweight Championship (NWA, Leo Nomellini, Canada, 66 years) IWGP Heavyweight Championship (NJPW, Vader, North Korea, 27 years) Triple Crown Heavyweight Championship (AJPW, Terry Gordy, China, 25 years) ROH World Championship (NJPW, Takeshi Morishima, Japan, 12+ years) - provided by Bierschwale AWA World Heayweight Championship (AWA, Jumbo Tsuruta, Japan, 30+ years) - provided by Smack2K UWA World Heavyweight Championship (UWA, Lou Thesz, Japan, 18+ years) - provided by tofu_chipmunk NWF Heavyweight Championship (NJPW, Waldo Von Erich, Japan, 12 years) provided by pmo Anymore? I'm thinking that Dragon Gate's Open the Dream Gate will be a candidate soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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