Zoo Enthusiast Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Doing the lord's work, Parv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Another enjoyable hour. Wasn't Cousin Luke wrestling as Gene Lewis at the time? He actually would end up in Puerto Rico for a spell in 82. One thing I wanted to ask is if the Cuban Assassin in Florida was Acevedo (the one from Stampede) or Sierra (the one that would tag with Ricky Santana in WCW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I think it was Sierra. Funny but Kelly makes the same point about Cousin Luke/Gene Lewis on an upcoming episode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Really enjoyed episode two guys, great concept! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Any chance we can get DL links? Soundcloud doesn't cooperate well with my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Another great show. I like the chemistry between you three and its nice to see Dylan keep his Tony Schiavone gimmick alive lol. Everything is " the best of all time and its not even close". In all seriousness im loving this idea and the possibilites you guys have in future shows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingPower Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Listening to the old newsletters one, not even 1/2 way thru but commenting anyway. I'd be curious how to define "outlaw promotion" vs. what has come to be known as indies. Local indies started around here (VA) in like 1988. I never heard them referred to as "outlaws" as I don't think there was an attempt to buck the establishment or challenge the NWA or anything. Curious where you draw the line. Maybe it's just a semantics thing where literally anyone running NWA towns before mid-80s were outlaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Just read now that Ivan Koloff had agreed to go to work for Fritz in November 1980 but decided to work for Crockett instead....Koloff making a run against the Von Erichs would've been fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Titans Xtra - 1981 Roster Analysis Part 3: WWF, AWA, Mid-South https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/titans-xtra-1981-roster-analysis-part-3 Parv, Kelly and Dylan continue their journey through the rosters of 1981, this time focusing on the three biggest independent promotions in the USA: WWF, AWA and Mid-South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsfan Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 just listened to roster analysis -part 3 and I'd like to make a point or two.. rating the wwf roster in comparison to the others is unfair.The promotion didnt need a stacked roster to fill arenas.The Northeast arena circuit ( msg, boston garden, philly spectrum) were a once a month deal,.. and they were usually packed each month, ,The draw was the wwf championship match, the intercontinental, and the tag title match. you also had a fourth match featuring a strong babyface (tony atlas) versus a strong heel( Khan). After that - you had four of five filler matches with the same guys that were in the promotion all year long..( the denucci's, rodz, jobbers, etc, ) it should be noted that the monster heels brought in to feed backlund ,stayed as long as it took to squash jobbers on tv and have a relatively short program with the champion (consisting of two or three arena matches in the circuit). The champion was rarely on tv so the title matches felt important- drawing fans to the arenas ( once a month in each major market). If anything, Vince Sr. plucked a few guys from each promotion for relatively brief programs. Parv did hit on this a bit., In conclusion., Only a few guys and the titles were needed to carry the wwf promotion. Challengers were brought in from the other territories for programs with the champion,,, and then would leave. At least half if not three quarters of the roster was irrelevant. By the way... love the podcast. Oh and for the Backlund haters, Backlund did draw! Nobody left the arena during those wwwf title matches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Is it possible Strongbow was working in the office at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Is it possible Strongbow was working in the office at this point? I did look this up and basically Strongbow didn't have enough matches anywhere to make the lists. In the first quarter of 81 he was working WWC (Puerto Rico) and then spent the rest of the year in Mid-Atlantic. He doesn't look like he was working a full schedule though and was most likely winding down. He brings his sorry ass back to WWF in 82 where I'm sure he became part of the office. just listened to roster analysis -part 3 and I'd like to make a point or two.. rating the wwf roster in comparison to the others is unfair.The promotion didnt need a stacked roster to fill arenas.The Northeast arena circuit ( msg, boston garden, philly spectrum) were a once a month deal,.. and they were usually packed each month, ,The draw was the wwf championship match, the intercontinental, and the tag title match. you also had a fourth match featuring a strong babyface (tony atlas) versus a strong heel( Khan). After that - you had four of five filler matches with the same guys that were in the promotion all year long..( the denucci's, rodz, jobbers, etc, ) it should be noted that the monster heels brought in to feed backlund ,stayed as long as it took to squash jobbers on tv and have a relatively short program with the champion (consisting of two or three arena matches in the circuit). The champion was rarely on tv so the title matches felt important- drawing fans to the arenas ( once a month in each major market). If anything, Vince Sr. plucked a few guys from each promotion for relatively brief programs. Parv did hit on this a bit., In conclusion., Only a few guys and the titles were needed to carry the wwf promotion. Challengers were brought in from the other territories for programs with the champion,,, and then would leave. At least half if not three quarters of the roster was irrelevant. By the way... love the podcast. Oh and for the Backlund haters, Backlund did draw! Nobody left the arena during those wwwf title matches! We're going to touch on this in a discussion at the start of the next regular Titans show (#32). My take actually is that the draw wasn't so much the belt for most of Vince Sr's reign but basically just Bruno who was so over that he could carry an entire card and roster. Almost didn't even matter who he was against. But this didn't mean that (W)WWF could take their crowds for granted in the North East -- as you can see with Buddy Rogers before Bruno and late-reign Backlund and then, interestingly, Hogan after him. This will be the crux of the conversation. I don't believe the tag titles were a draw. They always stick them in the curfew slot in 30-minute matches, usually featuring the Samoans, that seem designed to send you to sleep. I've sometimes wondered if it's a deliberate thing "alright, you've had your night's entertainment, move along nothing to see here ... it's time to go home". We'll also be talking about the way Vince Sr constructed his cards with the main event in the middle on the next show, cos sometimes it is hard to fathom the direness of the last 2-3 matches on an MSG card. Headline a show with any of those tag matches with no Bruno or Andre on the card and I wonder if they'd get even 8,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I actually think the tag titles probably were a draw at times. The thing with mid-70s era MSG seems to be that they ran a lot of non-title tag matches month after month. I don't have numbers to back me up, but I'm guessing when the titles were actually defended, after months of non-title matches, they drew because a tag title match was a rare thing and something special. That said, I'm not sure how much one can credit a belt for drawing. It was definitely a factor, and I think much more so, for example, with Backlund than with Bruno or Hogan. At the end of the day, I think hot angles and charismatic stars are still the main factors in drawing, at least when it comes to the difference between 15,000 and a 20,000 + sellout at a place like MSG. And even Bruno and Hogan couldn't automatically sell MSG out. At times it seemed like they could, but with a lesser opponent and without a hot angle, the place wasn't going to be packed. For example, during his second reign between 1974-77, Bruno headlined a ridiculous amount of sellouts at MSG--the hottest run of his career. During this time he was involved in hot programs with a who's who of big stars--Jonathon, Kowalski, the Valiants, Arion, Koloff, Graham, Ladd, Hansen, Patera, etc. In the middle of this run (9/6/75) he was scheduled to face Bugsy McGraw at MSG. McGraw had wrestled all over the place in the previous decade and had headlined in San Fran as the Brute just before coming to New York. However, the fans didn't see him as anything special, and two weeks before the show the advance was so poor that McGraw's manager, Lou Albano, was added to the match in an attempt to stimulate sales. Even then, the show didn't sell out, one of the few that didn't during Sammartino's second reign. One thing is certain,Vince Sr (and Jr at first) protected his belts so well, especially the main title. The booking of the WWWF/WWF title from 1963-1988 is actually a thing of beauty to look at. 9 men (not counting Inoki's secret reign) held the belt in 25 years. Throwing out the short reigns (Rogers, Koloff, Stasiak, Sheik), 5 men dominated, and if you throw out Graham's 10 month reign, 4 men monopolized the belt for essentially 24 of those 25 years. And it wasn't until late-91, when the title began to bounce around beginning with Hogan-Undertaker at Survivor Series, that the Era of Great Reigns came to a close. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 And WWF wasn't an independent they were a territory in standing in the NWA in 1981. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I knew someone would bust us on that point eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingPower Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Random aside when reading this thread. Dory as booker in Crockett wasn't looked at as an extremely bright dude by the office. I heard Cornette tell a story that Dory once left a meeting and walked into a closet & closed the door behind him, only to emerge a couple minutes later & walked out as if nothing happened. Whoever else was in the office just looked at each other like what's up with this guy? Not sure if he was stoned or just "slow" but that story always comes to mind in regards to Dory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Dory booked JCP was not good business wise that's for sure but he was better than Mosca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Didn't Dory theoretically book Final Conflict? I've heard he basically booked by committee and was very hands off.The WWF being in the NWA thing is a point we've discussed many times on Titans, and I'm still not clear on the key question: did the WWF recognise the NWA champ as THE champ? Was the WWF champ theoretically a world champ or just a regional champ like the Mid-Atlantic champ or the Florida champ? That is the crucial issue. I've argued before that it wasn't really a world title, but at different times it was treated as one. For example in the Graham vs. Race matches. Or when Backlund would go down to Florida or over to Japan to defend the title.I know technically WWF was an NWA member in 81, but for the purposes of this exercise it seemed to make more sense to treat them separately, because they had their own champ. Solie would mention the NWA all the time on GCW and Florida. They'd mention NWA all the time on JCP. You never hear Vince mention NWA unless Race is on the card, and even then it's like no one gives a shit. New York was its own thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Race showed up as NWA Champ on WWF TV in 1980, he was even wrestling squashes. They kind of alluded to a one world champion situation with him challenging Backlund. I haven't seen all of the TV so I'm not sure if they prioritized one belt over the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Yeah, we covered some of Race's squashes and the Race vs. Backlund match on the regular Titans show. That is one of my least favourite matches ever. They scarcely treated Race like a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Yeah in the arena programs...Race was recognized as the World Champion and Backlund as the WWF Champion. Dory was the booker for the Final Conflict era but he had help....when he got more control as the year went on the business went down but nowhere near as bad as it did the next year with Mosca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 More 81 roster analysis next week, but for now ... Titans Xtra - Three Wise Men Samplers In the 1970s, one of the secrets of Vince McMahon Sr's success in running a hot promotion was his utility of The Three Wise Men. We will be discussing managers in an upcoming show. Therefore, in order for listeners to appreciate what each "wise man" brought to the table, the Titans of Wrestling are happy to present these three "samplers" of their interviews and promos featuring rare and difficult-to-find audio from the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. Captain Lou Albano: https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/titans-xtra-albano The Grand Wizard of Wrestling: https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/titans-xtra-wizard Classy Freddie Blassie: https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/titans-xtra-blassie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Just read that Hayes & Roberts were supposed to enter JCP in July 1981 as a babyface tag team to presumably win the NWA World Tag Titles from Ole & Gene but Roberts flaked out and went AWOL killing those plans and pretty much keeping Hayes in Georgia. Now that scenario would've been something if it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 Titans Xtra - 1981 Roster Analysis Part 4: South West, South East, WWA https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/titans-xtra-1981-roster-analysis-part-4 Parv, Kelly and Dylan continue to trawl through the murky backwaters of US wrestling territories in 1981 and where the hell have they ended up this time? Joe Blanchard's South West Championship Wrestling (SWCW), Ron Fuller's South East Championship Wrestling (SECW), and Dick the Bruiser's sorry sorry WWA out of Indianapolis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Titans Xtra - 1981 Roster Analysis Part 5: ICW, LA https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/titans-xtra-1981-roster-analysis-part-5 When Parv, Kelly and Dylan said they'd leave no stone unturned, they meant it! They look at the two active US promotions from 1981 that they haven't looked at yet: Angelo Poffo's ICW, and Mike LaBell's LA promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.