Where the Big Boys Play #65 - Great American Bash 91

[Loss]

That said, we can talk about that elsewhere.

[Dylan Waco]

Vince was absolutely not in the right and the argument advanced above is horribly wrong

[thebrainfollower]

It is indeed an awful argument Parv. Bret didn't ask for more money he asked for what he was owed, the contract he negotiated and signed. Vince told him, "sorry I'm breaching your contract and not paying you" and Bret did something wrong in that how?

 

Flair refused to drop the strap for Luger in 88 at Starrcade and again at 90 so please don't tell me Herd wasn't justified in being concerned that Flair would absolutely refuse to job to him again here. He was completely correct in that concern.

 

Bret by contrast laid down for Shawn willingly in 96 and he hated him nearly as bad then. I'm not suggesting Bret was justified in refusing to drop the strap at SS 97 but IMO he WAS more justified than Flair taking the belt and leaving with it for another company. A security deposit does NOT make an item "yours" in this country, that's one reason that the courts demanded he stop showing the WCW belt on WWF TV, among others.

 

Flair is justified because he's the GOAT? Even if I agreed with that, that's total nonsense. It's borderline fascist in its ideology, saying because someone is the best they are above the law.

[JerryvonKramer]

Sign me up for my black shirt!

 

Here's a thread for this discussion: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28262-montreal-screwjob-who-do-you-side-with/

[Sidebottom]

Really enjoyed the podcast as usual Jerry!

[thebrainfollower]

Back to the podcast, I thought Will was the perfect guest for this. A friend of mine recently sat me down and asked what the worst PPV of all time is considered to be. We watched both KOTR 95 and this. And neither is really THAT bad in retrospect.

 

If any show makes me question Meltzer having zero objectivity as a reviewer it's this one. That Morton-Gibson match is great, makes sense and feels like how the R and R wrestling each other would.

 

Will was a great addition to the team, I found myself a little sad hearing his "will I be back next time" being answered with a no. I feel like you guys did an excellent job at rehabilitating this show and making me like it more (For the record I don't think it's good but it's rather like someone accusing Millard Filmore of being the worst President of all time and you learn they were Zachary Taylor's biggest fan)

[goodhelmet]

I'll be back on the show next year whether that evil bastard Chad wants me on the show or not. We'll probably be doing something like Great American Bash 1992 so I can bitch about Bill Watts and his obsession with Gordy & Doc.

 

Pretty sure Loss can file a copyright infringement report on Will for totally stealing his wardrobe shtick on this pod. STAY IN YOUR LANE PAL.

 

 

Hold up here head honcho... you need to recognize that this was clearly a tribute performance. Plus, did you see what the fuck DDP was wearing????

[bradhindsight]

Yes - tongue in cheek my friend, it was a good tribute and then (after posting) I got to the part in the show where Chad finally called it out. I thought you were a great guest!

[thebrainfollower]

Hahahahha I can't wait to bury Bill Watts about a few things myself if I get the chance.

[The Chief]

So Bret/Flair, yeah...

 

Anyways, what I wanna know is what the fuck was the point of PN News? I don't see a problem with the gimmick, but why HIM of all people? They couldn't get somebody who looked cool to play the character? He looked like a food cart vendor trying to fit into his grade school Halloween costume. How did this guy get a job with the second biggest US wrestling company?

[goodhelmet]

It's WCW... they have almost NEVER been aware of what is cool or current or hip.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Fuck you all for not liking the Yellow Dog!

Seriously though, Yellow Dog is one of those things that it is easy on the surface to shit on, but could have been a huge boon to Brian Pillman. Pillman is coming off his hot feud with Windham, which is the best thing about WCW 1991, but curiously loses a loser leaves town match. Only for the Yellow Dog to arrive on the scene shortly afterwards. The crux of the gimmick is that everyone knows it is Pillman. The fans, the faces, the heels and the announcers, but everyone plays along except the heels, who are infuriated he is back. So the Horsemen put a bounty on his head. Instantly, this gives the midcard direction. Now all these middling heels like Badd, Studd et al. have something to do. They explain away the same moveset by stating Yellow Dog is Pillman's biggest fan and wants to carry on his legacy.

 

What drives me bonkers is that the angle was never properly finished. If they finished this angle, I would contend nobody would remember this as Wrestlecrap. External forces killed this angle though. Windham was hastily turned face to fill the void of Luger turning heel and served as a mentor to Dustin and Simmons. But still they could have salvaged this with Arn and Larry Z, but in the most boneheaded move Pillman was chosen to be the centerpiece of the DOA Light Heayweight Division.

I originally envisioned the climax of the angle being a hair vs mask reinstatement match between Yellow Dog and Barry Windham with Pillman going over. Then on the next episode of Saturday Night, Pillman thanks the Yellow Dog for all the help while the Horsemen just seethe with rage. If you have to turn Windham face, then Yellow Dog & Partner (Simmons, perhaps) going over Enforcers.

Just bridge off Parv's excellent idea for Sting/Luger that allows you to do Rick Steiner/Yellow Dog/Missy vs Arn/Windham/Paul E, which with time could have been really good and further the angle towards a blowoff.

 

Anyone who is interested about the 1991 Yellow Dog matches here is my blog on it: http://ridingspacemountain.blogspot.com/2014/02/wargames-taped-fists-yellow-dogs-brian.html

Here is my review of the Flair/Studd match mentioned (I say ***1/2 is generous, I would probably go closer to ***)

 

WCW World Heavyweight Champion Ric Flair & Diamond Studd w/DDP vs.

Yellow Dog/Bobby Eaton - WCW 6/91

I believe this Flair's last televised performance with WCW until his '93 return as GAB starts that week according to JR and I know he is gone before the Meadowlands show. I actually liked this match even more than the Flair/AA vs Eaton/Pillman as this match seemed more heated and had more of a focus. The focus was getting the Yellow Dog over like rover. JR aggravates Paul E. with obtuse references to Pillman while the Yellow Dog does moves and Paul E. flips his shit each time. Studd is a little clunky, but hell if he does not sell and bump for Pillman. Pillman does not give an all-time great offensive performance but they way Flair and Studd treat him makes you feel like Pillman is a star. I love the ending where the heels just jump Pillman and try to remove his mask. It puts over the mask and the angle over so much before Eaton makes the save. I would be remiss not to mention that Flair/Eaton segments are so fucking good even better than the last tag. Those strike exchanges are everything you would want out of Flair/Eaton. I would not say a must see match as Flair/Eaton had a better match in 01/90 and Pillman has had better performances. However, it did a really good job getting the bounty angle and making me a believer in the angle even if they ended up botching the end game.

[PeteF3]

There were other things working against the Dog angle.

 

- They took a sex symbol with female fan appeal and covered him in a mask and a bodysuit, which was stupid and counterproductive regardless of what the planned endgame was.

 

- There was absolutely NO weight given at all to the loser-leaves-town stip. It was matter-of-factly announced for the Clash and in that rushed, overbooked show was given about 4 minutes of ring time with no lip service given to the consequences of the result. With the way Ross had called Pillman's matches over the past 2 years, gushing about what a gutsy underdog he was as both a football player and a wrestler, Ross should have been wailing and gnashing his teeth over what a tragic and premature ending it was for the promising career of Flyin' Brian. Instead, the ostensible end of Pillman's career is nothing more than a segue to a Great American Bash report. It was so, so obvious that the LLT stip was nothing more than a blatant plot device to set up this mask angle--and since WCW had nothing left at this point but the hardcore fanbase who knew where this was going, they had to be less obvious than that. (Of course, if you go too far in the other direction, everyone's probably expecting Pillman to turn up in the WWF).

 

- Keeping the same music for the Dog was dumb as well. Again, it was a clear broadcast by WCW that "This is just an angle, no need to get too emotionally involved here."

 

- If you think the music is nitpicking, fine. But please explain how anyone can take the Dog seriously when he comes with Gary Cappetta enthusiastically introducing him as being "from the KENNEL CLUB!"

 

- Windham had made a comment calling Pillman a "dirty yellow dog" in an earlier promo, but the name was still nonsensical. When Windham donned the mask in Florida, it was a response to his humiliation at the hands of Ron Bass, who had repeatedly labeled him with the epithet and then after a match put a saddle on him and "rode" him around the ring. Windham felt he had to don the mask and take on a new attitude as a way to redeem his shame--the mask took on a powerful figurative as well as literal disguise. Pillman, again, donned the mask because The Booking Said So, something that WCW's hamfisted presentation made obvious.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I think the females could wait three months to see their beloved Flyin Brian. After all, absence makes the heart grow fonder. My timeline would have the blowoff be in September or October anyways, so that long after the loser leaves town.

The music I am fine with it is the same as having the same moveset to Flyin Brian. It is an homage. The hometown, I agree, is stupid.

 

I actually knew nothing about the original Yellow Dog angle and that actually sounds really cool. Pillman perhaps was throwing that back in the face of Windham. I agree that poor booking sort of made seem like it was shoehorned in there. He would have been better off with a different name.

 

I think the strongest point and a problem I failed to mention was the Loser Leaves Town match being so poorly set up and presented that does take some of the starch out of the angle. The fact it was 4 minutes and JR barely bats an idea would seemingly kill it. I thought the bounty and the way the matches were worked salvaged the angle enough that an actual conclusion would have still been meaningful.

WCW booking in 1991 was the shits. I still feel this was Pillman's best shot at the main event. He was working a strong program with the Horsemen and this could have been a great extension of it, but they botched from the get go. It still felt like the hottest thing they had in the summer of '91, which does not say much. If Pillman goes over the Horsemen/Enforcers, it could have led to matches against Luger, but Watts was coming in anyways so it was probably moot. Regardless, the Yellow Dog was a fun angle, but had more potential than it did in the way of execution.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I forgot my favorite part was when Parv or Chad ever commented on a match almost immediately Will would say but yeah missed the part that was actually was good and it was always a fun hidden gem. I actually looked up DDP's outfit just based on this podcast and it was indeed bitchin' as all hell.

[goodhelmet]

I forgot my favorite part was when Parv or Chad ever commented on a match almost immediately Will would say but yeah missed the part that was actually was good and it was always a fun hidden gem. I actually looked up DDP's outfit just based on this podcast and it was indeed bitchin' as all hell.

 

Give me some examples.

[BigBadMick]

Great show lads. Epic 1st hour on the 1991 Flair situation. Couple of points -

 

Will, although you kind of drown out Ross and Schiavone on commentary nowadays, how do you rate them both?

 

Parv, I'm not sure what you meant by WWF being in the steriod scandal equates to Flair's value going up? It was well into 92 before the muscleheads really starting disappearing, and apart from that I think Flair was physically impressive enough to be of value to WWF throughout the 80s and on into the 90s, regardless of the steriod controversy. Just wondering what you meant?

 

Will, do you think Windham was old and washed-up in 91, or just that he could be considered a relic of the past compared to Luger and Sting?

[goodhelmet]

Schiavone- I admit Tony was washed up at the end of the Monday Night Wars but he is the voice from my youth. All of my favorite NWA moments as a kid had Tony announcing and Dave Crockett yelling. I will always have a soft spot for Tony but I have been listening to him for nearly 30 years.

 

Jim Ross - Man, I have never ranked Ross as the greatest. It may have something to do with him being a dick to me when I was 12.

 

Windham - I don't think Barry was washed up by 91 but he wasn't a main event player. His WWF run and midcard feuding hurt him. If he won the belt in 1987 or 1988, I would not have blinked an eye. By 91, he was not strong enough to be at the world champion level.

[DR Ackermann]

What happened with 12 year old Will & Jim Ross?

[Johnny Sorrow]

What happened with 12 year old Will & Jim Ross?

Will needs to show you on the doll.

[goodhelmet]

I was at a UWF show and had 3rd row tickets. The UWF Belt was sitting on a table so I asked Ross if I could take a picture of the belt. He was not kind.

[JazeUSA]

I challenge Will to make it thru a single podcast w/o mentioning Jerry Lawler lol

[bradhindsight]

I was at a UWF show and had 3rd row tickets. The UWF Belt was sitting on a table so I asked Ross if I could take a picture of the belt. He was not kind.

 

The correct answer is "Listen to the show where I tell the story"

[goodhelmet]

I challenge Will to make it thru a single podcast w/o mentioning Jerry Lawler lol

 

It is my personal challenge to myself to drop Jerry Lawler into every single podcast I do from here on out.

[JazeUSA]

 

I challenge Will to make it thru a single podcast w/o mentioning Jerry Lawler lol

 

It is my personal challenge to myself to drop Jerry Lawler into every single podcast I do from here on out.

 

LMAO! Love it