Routines/Signature Exchanges

[Gregor]

There's probably a better way to phrase it, but what do you think of routines between two opponents?

 

When I first started thinking about match quality, I would try to rationalize Michaels and Bulldog doing the eyepoke-hurracanrana and short-arm scissors spots in a lot of their matches together. They were fun sequences, but Michaels pretty much never used the short-arm scissors, except for when he was wrestling a guy who reversed it every single time it was put on him - you'd think he'd realize that it wasn't an effective strategy.

 

I don't know why this kind of thing doesn't bother me anymore. I remember watching an Atlantis-Emilio Charles Jr. match a year or so ago, and Charles was trying to force a bridging Atlantis' shoulders to the mat with a knucklelock. I knew what was going to happen next - I imagine every person in Arena Mexico but one knew what was going to happen next - and it just cracked me up that Emilio thought that this would be the one time that he wouldn't end up soaring across the ring off a monkey flip. It's actually disappointing when those two match up and Charles doesn't take the monkey flip and then charge into a backbreaker. It isn't really logical that this would happen every time they face off; at the very least it makes Charles look stupid or unrealistically self-assured. I just don't care, though, because it's a great routine. They zip around the ring, Atlantis' technique is perfect, Charles takes each bump beautifully, and he sells the backbreaker at the end as if he's been set on fire. I absolutely appreciate guys who can figure out new things to do every time they're in the ring together, but I'm also impressed by two guys who have a series of spots so good that they can bust it out at any time and never fail to get the crowd going.

 

So do you like stuff like that? If so, what are your favorite routines? If not, what are some specific repeat exchanges that have taken you out of a match or hurt a wrestler's standing in your eyes?

[JerryvonKramer]

- Ric Flair shoves Tommy Young who shoves Flair back, sometimes with a Ric taking a bump.

 

- Ted DiBiase goes for an Irish Whip into the turnbuckle, but it gets reversed sending Ted into the corner. He comes charging out of it only to take a shot to the stomach which sends him over 360 into a forward roll. I think you can see this in the infamous "reverse / charge" audible during his exchanges with Bret at Survivor Series 90. Variation on this is when the opponent is prone but standing and he goes for the second turnbuckle move that never connects and takes the stomach shot there instead going over 360 -- Arn Anderson also does that spot. Another variation has him doing that insane 360 "over the head / neck" bump, but this is more common on an Irish whip reversal to the ropes.

 

- Harley Race did the failed bodyslam / crossbody spot quite often where he'd catch the babyface, go for a slam, but the babyface ends up falling on top of him for a near fall. He'd also very often get his gut-wrench suplex or side salto reversed, which is a spot that comes up in Race matches more than anywhere else I've ever seen. It's almost like he'd use the gut-wrench reversal as a transitional move, or sometimes even as a hope spot.

[fakeplastictrees]

I've never been into the Lynn/RVD series from the late 90's and I remember them going out there and pretty much having the same match. In fact everytime they touched you could expect certain spots. The worse was the RVD/Lynn Mexican standoffs.

 

If we use kayfabe logic- a wrestler might try something again if it failed the first time and that wrestler is determined to make it work i.e. the HBK/Bulldog match(es) you mentioned. I don't mind a fun sequences that is repeated over a span of matches as long as its not souless. My biggest problem with 'repeats', I guess moreso applies to American pro wrestling. Wrestlers in WWE, TNA, ROH, and PWG (that's all I really watch from America- a little CHIKARA here-and-there) tend to hit his/her signature moves in EVERY match and its kinda lame.

 

The American companies, I think, would benefit greatly from doing a 21st century Southern Style. Tone down on the finishing moves and signature moves. Instead of a wrestler breaking out his/her 5 signature moves in EVERY MATCH, the wrestler should spread them out.

 

-Monday's match has move 1 and 2 only.

-Tuesday's match has moves 4 and 5.

-Wednesday's match has 2 and 3.

-Thursday's match only has move 1 and the wrestler's finisher.

-Friday's match has no moves or finisher and is won by the wrestler doing something completely different that wasn't seen on any of the previous days.

 

I think variety is important and is lacking.

[cheapshot]

- Ric Flair shoves Tommy Young who shoves Flair back sometimes, with a Ric taking a bump.

 

I never liked this spot. It made Flair look weak in my eyes, especially when he was the world champion.

[dawho5]

You could look at something like Misawa/Kawada and the ever-evolving nature of their signature spots/reversals over time as a good example of how these kinds of things ought to be worked. It seemed like they would add layers to them as the years passed where it took longer for anything to really connect of note during their exchanges. Between those two, Akiyama, Kobashi when he didn't have to chop everyone and everything down, and Taue with his choke tosses and varying ways of cutting off strike exchanges (he tended to try to make them shorter due to his weaker strikes than the other 4), not many wrestlers really vary up how they counter off of signature spots.

 

I also like watching an older American style match and seeing spots where multiple escapes of something as simple as a side headlock or a leg scissors are attempted and failed before the victim finally gets out, usually to be put in the same hold again and have to work on escaping a second time. I thought that put over basic holds as effective ways of wearing somebody down that were difficult to counter, as well as adding a sense of variety to the way things were done.

[Matt D]

Wrestling is magic.

 

But I sure wish Negro Casas would strip falling for Rush's direction change clothesline.

 

One of the reasons I'm so high on Christian is that he would constantly evolve his stuff in rematches and what not.

[tim]

But I sure wish Negro Casas would strip

 

Feudian slip, Matt? I'm sure we all feel that way sometimes.

 

As much criticism as there is for Okada's Rainmaker schtick with the extended reversals, I usually like it. I think it actually gives a layer of meaning to the move: it's very easy to counter/avoid, but a killshot when it does hit. Compared to, just to keep it in the same promotion, Nakamura's Boma Ye which he hits from all angles with relative ease but takes several shots to keep someone down. I also do appreciate how against a big rival like Tanahashi they will tweak the sequence each time and have Okada eventually connecting out of different angles. The only thing I wish is that he would actually make his opponents duck rather than often aiming over their heads.

 

I don't mind routine sequences at all, if they're good. I do think a really great wrestler would find ways to tweak them and counter them now and again, but not too often so that the deviations from the norm feel like big deals when they do happen.

[KrisZ]

How in the hell has Sting pressslamming Flair numerous times not made this list yet

[Loss]

I'm a big fan of headlock > headscissors > jump over > bridge up > backslide, no matter who is doing it.

[WingedEagle]

I'm a big fan of headlock > headscissors > jump over > bridge up > backslide, no matter who is doing it.

 

I'm cracking up on the couch here. SF/Dallas is a blowout, so I put on wrestling -- Jannetty vs 123 Kid from September 1993. Couple minutes into the match what do we have? BOOM. And it was was great, with the wrinkle here that the backslide was blocked.

[Graham Crackers]

I always get ridiculously excited when somebody deadlifts out of an arm scissors.

[fxnj]

Guys reusing sequences verbatim is one of my least favorite things. Seeing guys go through the exact sequences just to pop the crowd is not only repetitive to watch but it's basically just a step down from grabbing a mic and telling the fans that they're watching something predetermined.