Harley Race

[JerryvonKramer]

Would people agree that he's way better once he loses the belt and stops giving 95% of his matches to his opponent?

 

That was my feeling.

[WingedEagle]

Would people agree that he's way better once he loses the belt and stops giving 95% of his matches to his opponent?

 

That was my feeling.

 

Haven't seen a ton of him domestically without the belt, but it didn't look to be quite that skewed when he worked Japan from what I recall.

 

Will certainly check out the thread.

[Grimmas]

Would people agree that he's way better once he loses the belt and stops giving 95% of his matches to his opponent?

 

That was my feeling.

If he stopped the bomb throwing with no selling, then yes.

 

I can't get over the piledriver on the floor as a normal spot in a match.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

Would people agree that he's way better once he loses the belt and stops giving 95% of his matches to his opponent?

 

That was my feeling.

If he stopped the bomb throwing with no selling, then yes.

 

I can't get over the piledriver on the floor as a normal spot in a match.

 

That spot basically never hit. It is Harley taking a backdrop 99% of the time.

 

I believe I've watched every match of Harley's on tape up to 1983.

[Grimmas]

 

 

Would people agree that he's way better once he loses the belt and stops giving 95% of his matches to his opponent?

 

That was my feeling.

If he stopped the bomb throwing with no selling, then yes.

 

I can't get over the piledriver on the floor as a normal spot in a match.

 

That spot basically never hit. It is Harley taking a backdrop 99% of the time.

 

I believe I've watched every match of Harley's on tape up to 1983.

 

He did it in the WWF against a JTTS.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

 

 

Would people agree that he's way better once he loses the belt and stops giving 95% of his matches to his opponent?

That was my feeling.

 

If he stopped the bomb throwing with no selling, then yes.

 

I can't get over the piledriver on the floor as a normal spot in a match.

That spot basically never hit. It is Harley taking a backdrop 99% of the time.

I believe I've watched every match of Harley's on tape up to 1983.

He did it in the WWF against a JTTS.

Seems like a good reason to disqualify him from your list.

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

 

Would people agree that he's way better once he loses the belt and stops giving 95% of his matches to his opponent?

That was my feeling.

If he stopped the bomb throwing with no selling, then yes.

 

I can't get over the piledriver on the floor as a normal spot in a match.

That spot basically never hit. It is Harley taking a backdrop 99% of the time.

I believe I've watched every match of Harley's on tape up to 1983.

He did it in the WWF against a JTTS.

Seems like a good reason to disqualify him from your list.

 

If any wrestler thinks a piledriver on the floor should be treated like a bodyslam in the ring than they are wrestling morons.

 

That's not the only reason though. Harley wrestles matches in ways that make me always ask questions. When I am constantly thinking to myself that "this made no sense" or "why would you do that" then I don't see how you are a great wrestler.

[JerryvonKramer]

I kinda want to see this piledriver cos it sounds awesome.

 

Who was the JTTS?

[WingedEagle]

Not sure I understand the hate for the piledriver on the floor. Let's say he did it in every match in the 70s. If it never finished anyone, why the uproar? Seems like if it had been established as a move of death and regarded as such consistently, then presenting it as a random high spot makes all the sense in the world. But otherwise why are we choosing how he should finish a match?

[Grimmas]

I feel like it was Poffo or SD Jones or someone like that. Can't recall now. Like I said above, it's not purely that. All of his matches are filled with things that make no sense to me.

[JerryvonKramer]

If it was SD Jones taking it, you must remember that all 80s black men had heads harder than concrete.

 

If it was Jones giving it, I need to see that just to witness Jones actually doing a move that isn't a forearm smash!

[shoe]

 

 

Would people agree that he's way better once he loses the belt and stops giving 95% of his matches to his opponent?

 

That was my feeling.

If he stopped the bomb throwing with no selling, then yes.

 

I can't get over the piledriver on the floor as a normal spot in a match.

Are you holding that spot against Terry Funk? At the clash match against Steamer that happened . Against Martel and Windham in Puerto Rico. Terry has used that spot in Japan too.

[Grimmas]

It bumps Terry down from 1 to somewhere in top 5.

[Grimmas]

To clarify that spot us just a sign of Harley's problems. Every time I see him, there are issues with him.

[Manatee]

I've been listening to all of the GWE list podcasts and find it disturbing that so many people are leaving Harley off of their lists. That is despite the fact that, when justifying the guys that are on their list and naming off all of their great matches, the podcasters will often cite matches those guys had against Harley as being great. I understand that he is not a sexy pick but I think the hate has gone too far.

[JerryvonKramer]

I've been listening to all of the GWE list podcasts and find it disturbing that so many people are leaving Harley off of their lists. That is despite the fact that, when justifying the guys that are on their list and naming off all of their great matches, the podcasters will often cite matches those guys had against Harley as being great. I understand that he is not a sexy pick but I think the hate has gone too far.

Chad and I both had Harley ranked. I was #48, pretty sure Chad was something like #54. Pete had him ranked too. Not sure on timothy, I thought I heard that he did. So only Steven and Tim that didn't rank him.

[Manatee]

 

I've been listening to all of the GWE list podcasts and find it disturbing that so many people are leaving Harley off of their lists. That is despite the fact that, when justifying the guys that are on their list and naming off all of their great matches, the podcasters will often cite matches those guys had against Harley as being great. I understand that he is not a sexy pick but I think the hate has gone too far.

Chad and I both had Harley ranked. I was #48, pretty sure Chad was something like #54. Pete had him ranked too. Not sure on timothy, I thought I heard that he did. So only Steven and Tim that didn't rank him.

 

So far Pete and Timothy have not mentioned him. I imagine Pete will get to him judging by his list so far.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

 

I've been listening to all of the GWE list podcasts and find it disturbing that so many people are leaving Harley off of their lists. That is despite the fact that, when justifying the guys that are on their list and naming off all of their great matches, the podcasters will often cite matches those guys had against Harley as being great. I understand that he is not a sexy pick but I think the hate has gone too far.

Chad and I both had Harley ranked. I was #48, pretty sure Chad was something like #54. Pete had him ranked too. Not sure on timothy, I thought I heard that he did. So only Steven and Tim that didn't rank him.

 

So far Pete and Timothy have not mentioned him. I imagine Pete will get to him judging by his list so far.

 

I listened back to WTBBP part 1 yesterday when I was picking my dad up from the airport, and then listened to Pete and Timothy's show, so I might have this scrambled.

 

I'll be very shocked if Pete at least doesn't list him.

 

And given some of the guys Timothy has listed, I'll expect to see him on his list too.

 

I thought Steven and Tim took well-worn party lines on a lot of their picks, and one such party line is that Harley is overrated.

[elliott]

I was sorta down on Harley and looked at him as a "fun" but ultimately disappointing wrestler, but the Houston footage really started to make me rethink that and now he's one of the bigger names I want to think about this time around and possibly dive into. It seems like his case is juicier now than it was going into the 2016 project.  

[strobogo]

When I was a youngster, god damn did Harley bore me. Thought this dude could not have been more boring and ancient as a manager in WCW and anytime I'd see old matches I couldn't believe how slow and boring he was at everything. Of course I was a dumb kid. Harley rules. There are so many small things he did so perfectly. Like his knee drops. Those things look fucking brutal every time. Much, much more violent and brutal but also simpler than the Flair/HHH roll through type. Also the classic 70s style punch through/off your chest that looks like a million bucks every time. But the thing that has really stood out to me over the past few years is that dude took the flattest back bumps possible damn near every time, for every bump, for every opponent, on every move. It's almost like magic. It's almost cat like, except for landing completely flat on your back. It's really just fascinating to me for whatever reason. 

I also see now that he was basically the Kurt Angle of his time in terms of GO GO GO borderline spotfests, and also Flair took most of his spots for himself. I've seen a lot of good-great Harley matches in the past 4-5 years. Really enjoy his work now and he'll definitely get a spot somewhere on my list.

[Matt D]

Harley Race is Japanese for “guy you expect to be a badass but actually just gives way too much.”

[strobogo]

I feel like pretty much all NWA champs that I've seen from Thesz/Dory/Harley/Terry/Flair all probably gave too much to their opponents. Brisco, too, in the few NWA Championship matches I've seen with him. I suppose that's because they're almost always in the role of a heel or heelish going up against whatever territory's top face. 

[KB8]

I'd like to give Harley another shot for this as well. Most of the All Japan stuff bored me to tears last time so I'll probably skip that, but the last handful of matches from America that I watched were much more interesting. Could do with a reevaluation. 

[Shrike02]

I feel that Race should rank somewhere in the middle of my list and there are a couple of Houston matches that really show him in his prime which weren't readily available in 2016. The real classic is the match vs. Terry Funk from 1977 if I recall correctly. That's a legit NWA classic which some might view as a 5* match; if not it's really close to a masterpiece. There's also a great match vs. Andre.

[elliott]

I ranked Harley Race 84th in 2016 and I feel good about that. I understand the criticisms, but there's too much stuff that I really like to not at least consider him. The Houston footage is a great help to his candidacy and there's a match against Billy Jack in Portland that is shockingly great. I like him against the Von Erich boys and while the Starrcade match with Flair is a disappointment, there are others that I like. The WWF run is fun from what I've seen considering he's at the end of his run. Not a lock for me but not someone I can dismiss outright.