Haku/Meng

[El-P]

Yeah. Bob Backlund, basically. AH !

[JerryvonKramer]

stuff

The reason it's just in-ring and not total package, is because if it was total package, Flair curbstomps all as the only guy who is in both the GOAT in-ring and GOAT promo conversations.

 

I don't think there is any peer when it comes to everything. Flair's a better in-ring worker than Dusty, Rock, Austin, Piper, Foley etc. and a better talker than any US-based worker with a big rep you care to name (Steamboat, Benoit, Angle, HBK, Eddie, Bryan, Rey, etc. etc.), and the Japanese guys we don't know about as promos. I think Flair is so far and away in front the number 1 in terms of total package, that it would seriously detract from there being any point in running the thing.

[JerryvonKramer]

Yeah. Bob Backlund, basically. AH !

Actually, Bob is not purely "technical" in that sense. He was working in the house that Bruno built and the WWF style was more punchy-kicky always. Even if Backlund was a lot more technical than what WWF fans were used to, he still has a lot of brawl-y elements in his game. He's kind of scrappy in a way.

[Grimmas]

 

stuff

The reason it's just in-ring and not total package, is because if it was total package, Flair curbstomps all as the only guy who is in both the GOAT in-ring and GOAT promo conversations.

 

I don't think there is any peer when it comes to everything. Flair's a better in-ring worker than Dusty, Rock, Austin, Piper, Foley etc. and a better talker than any US-based worker with a big rep you care to name (Steamboat, Benoit, Angle, HBK, Eddie, Bryan, Rey, etc. etc.), and the Japanese guys we don't know about as promos. I think Flair is so far and away in front the number 1 in terms of total package, that it would seriously detract from there being any point in running the thing.

 

I don't include promos for this reason, but in ring charisma certainly helps a candidate.

[JerryvonKramer]

I guess the conversation for #2 spot might be interesting.

 

Arn would likely be top 10 (phenomenal promo).

[JerryvonKramer]

Oh hold on, Funk of course. Terry Funk is #2. Or Lawler.

[Grimmas]

Including promos and in ring work I take Funk and Lawler over Flair still

[GOTNW]

Flair is probably going to end up #1 anyway so I really don't see Parv's point. The idea he is so far and above everyone else is ridiculous and simply untrue. Do you not think Terry Funk, Bockwinkel, Hansen etc. were great wrestlers and talkers? Can't you see why someone else would think they were better than Flair? Come on. This poll being concentrated on in ring work makes the criteria much clearer and gives a fair shake to japanese and mexican workers who may not have gotten one simply due to the participants' ignorance.

[JerryvonKramer]

Including promos and in ring work I take Funk and Lawler over Flair still

Leaving this thread now.

 

Love Funk though.

[El-P]

More Ric Flair talk in an Haku thread. ZZZZzzzz….. (and really, more Ric Flair talk = ZZZZzzzzzz at this point. If he ends up N°1, it will be both hilarious and kinda sad. Flair will probably make my top 20 this time around though)

[Parties]

This is an old, old, old argument, but: you can't separate "in-ring" from "presence/character/promos". Each guides the other. You can appreciate great wrestling without knowing the personas working, but no match occurs in a bubble. Santo-Casas is better when you know who Santo and Casas are. We're all more influenced than we care to admit by what we know (or think we know) about workers' personalities when judging their skill in-ring. Being a great wrestler was a key aspect of Flair's "character" and the storytelling that followed. Likewise, the lens through which we look at Flair bell-to-bell is inexorably colored by Space Mountain.

[shoe]

I just can't see Haku making my list . A guy who had a lot of spurts that were fun.Just not consistent enough between the ropes for me

[NotJayTabb]

I watched a handful of Haku matches over the weekend, after JvK asked if I'd be voting for him in the Barbarian thread, and I realised he was a guy I'd not even considered. After watching 6-7 matches, I think it's unlikely he'll make the cut, though I'll try a few Meng bouts tonight just to make sure.

 

I think Haku was a much better tag wrestler than singles, and I thought some of the Islanders stuff was really fun. Loved the match where they turned heel on the Can-Am Connection, as Tama and Haku just up the intensity the moment they stab the Can-Am's in the back. The Faces of Fear were a super-enjoyable tag team too, their match against Wrath & Mortis at Fall Brawl 97 was a really fun "big lads" match, probably the best bout of Bryan Clarke's career.

 

What I did find was that, for a guy who often played the role of gatekeeper, he wasn't particularly intimidating (though I remember him being more so as Meng). There's a tag match I watched where him and Barbie took on Kato and Mr Fuji(!) and Haku ends up as face-in-peril to one of the least intimidating combos possible at that time. I also watched him (co-managed by Ted DiBiase) taking on Virgil and though he takes most of the match, I never thought "Oh, Virgil's in trouble here". His offence doesn't look particularly interesting, though his thrust/superkick looks more deadly than the Usos or Ziggler would do. Considering I was asked if I'd pick him in response to my selecting Barbarian, he's less imposing, has worse offence and is a less-interesting seller than his FoF partner. In the end, I left the Haku path on YouTube and let it take me to more Barb matches, including a really fun WCW match vs Vader.

[elliott]

I basically always like Haku/Meng. There's good stuff as King Tonga, The Islanders are one of the best WWF tag teams of the 80, I am as big a Faces of Fear fan as anyone. I enjoy his singles work too. I don't really see him as a candidate for the top 100, but maybe a top 100 wrestlers I'd want on my dream roster.