Cesaro

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[concrete1992]

I would love to find a place for him on my ballet between his WWE run and the later Kings of Wrestling stuff but I'm not gonna fool myself, it'll be a tough sell. Unless his other indie stuff holds up really well then I don't know how he'll make my ballot off a couple really good years with last year being great.

[Phil Schneider]

When we redo this in 10 years, he will hopefully have a spot. Can't justify putting him on for his output so far. Sort of how I feel about Ambrose too

[Grimmas]

What happens if he is the best wrestler in the world, again, in 2015? Is that enough?

[Matt D]

I think we have enough output over the last couple of years to really understand his strength and weaknesses (of which he certainly does not have many). I suppose I'd have to dig back into his indy work a bit. I think he's had a better WWE run than Bryan, personally, more apt to implement consistent and meaningful selling into his ringwork and try to tell a total story, including building between his WWE matches which not a lot of guys do. If anything, the lack of babyface matches in WWE is what's going to hurt him for me, because I'd like to see that range. I'd like to see some arguments for Bryan over him when it comes to what they do in ring during that WWE runs.

[Timbo Slice]

He was my WOTY for 2013 and it was by quite a wide margin so I'm as big on him as anyone. Definitely interested to see where he'll land a few years from now, but his work on the indies wasn't as god as Bryan's and while I think he's better right now, I'm not sure he's gonna get the chances we hope he'll get for a while.

[Phil Schneider]

What happens if he is the best wrestler in the world, again, in 2015? Is that enough?

He wasn't the best wrestler in the world in 2013 or 2014 so I don't see the again.

[goodhelmet]

He needed a stronger Indy run to pop my list. I am one of the biggest Cesaro supporters but his run is incomplete.

[Shining Wiz]

A definite contender for me on pure talent, though I think his career on the indies was better than some give him credit for.

 

He grew from decent lower carder in ROH to the best part of their tag scene by the time he was done. He was also by far the best part of Chikara during their biggest angle. Put that in the mix with probably being the best wrestler in WWE over the past two years and it's hard not to consider him.

[Dylan Waco]

I want to go back and watch more of his indie stuff. Unlike Phil I did think he was the best guy in the World last year so that is something to build on, especially because he was also the best wrestler in the world for the first four months of this year. I could see finding a spot for a guy like him on my ballot if a fair amount of his indie work stacks up.

[Shining Wiz]

he stood out in Chikara during the BDK story, as much for how he got his character across by his actions in the ring as much as his wrestling. Possibly because of some occasionally subpar competition, his wrestling really stands out as being far above everyone else he's in the ring with, and you can see what he would become as Cesaro starting to come through.

[W2BTD]

Loved all of his indie stuff. He was a guy who never had a bad match, but rarely had the best match on the card. I can now safely say his best stuff has been in WWE, something I wasn't comfortable saying a year ago.

 

His best indie match was vs El Generico in ROH, which is sort of fitting as his best WWE stuff has been against Zayn. They have unreal chemistry.

[GSR]

Indy wise I've only really seen his Chikara work but enjoyed that a lot. Could work singles, tags, played a pivotal role in the whole BDK storyline, was a fantastic base for the smaller wrestlers (there was a really good match he had with Ricochet) and could also do the intergender stuff be it in the tag against Quack & Toyota and the singles match with Sara Del Ray.

[BillThompson]

Not yet, he's in the same boat as Thatcher. In ten years he;ll probably be a lock, but right now there's just not enough great output for me to put him on the list.

[Shining Wiz]

Not yet, he's in the same boat as Thatcher. In ten years he;ll probably be a lock, but right now there's just not enough great output for me to put him on the list.

Same boat as Thatcher? His career is twice as long, probably 5 times the matches and was on a higher level 7 years ago than Thatcher is now.

[concrete1992]

Yeah, not seeing how he is in the same boat as Thatcher. Thatcher is young into his notable stuff while Cesaro has been around for awhile just depends on how much you enjoyed his indie stuff which either works for him or against him. Thatcher doesn't have a ton to work against him yet.

[BillThompson]

 

Not yet, he's in the same boat as Thatcher. In ten years he;ll probably be a lock, but right now there's just not enough great output for me to put him on the list.

Same boat as Thatcher? His career is twice as long, probably 5 times the matches and was on a higher level 7 years ago than Thatcher is now.

 

 

I wasn't that high on Cesaro during his indie run. He's only really become an elite wrestler the past two years, and in that regard he's had about the same output as Thatcher, only not as high quality.

[Shining Wiz]

 

 

Not yet, he's in the same boat as Thatcher. In ten years he;ll probably be a lock, but right now there's just not enough great output for me to put him on the list.

 

Same boat as Thatcher? His career is twice as long, probably 5 times the matches and was on a higher level 7 years ago than Thatcher is now.

I wasn't that high on Cesaro during his indie run. He's only really become an elite wrestler the past two years, and in that regard he's had about the same output as Thatcher, only not as high quality.

I suspect our opinions on most things wrestling will not be attuned.

[BillThompson]

If we're disagreeing about Thatcher being a great wrestler, or in my estimation easily the best wrestler in the world, then probably so.

[Stiva]

so, this ballot is due in 2016, right? I actually think that, in that time, Cesaro could be a lock for this list if, and it's a big if, he manages to transcend WWE's god-awful booking. Two years can be a long time in wrestling, especially in a company as impulsive as WWE and I think he has the ability to find himself back over enough to have a good main event run. This isn't the place for speculation so we'll take his career as a whole; my experience with him started with 05/06 ROH and him looking kind of bad in Pure title matches. The ROH/CZW feud allowed him to look better than that but it's a case of me being kind of unfamiliar with his most pimped indy work. Like, he was a guy who was signed, right when I had fell out of love with wrestling and when I tuned back into WWE, he was on the main roster, looking great. So, he's a guy that could definitely be helped by the next couple of years which could see him at the top of WWE's cards and having PPVs main events and also give me the time to check out his indy stuff from 09-11 and man, he might just make it.

[Matt D]

I think right now Cesaro is unquestionably better than Bryan. I have a lot of Bryan indy matches to watch, but as I go back I'll have to see if I think any of those matches are better than how good Cesaro is now. They could well be. People regard them highly after all.

[Shining Wiz]

I enjoy Cesaro right now more than Brian pre-injury, but I think I enjoy Brian pre-main event run and on the indies more than I enjoy Cesaro right now, if that makes sense. Mostly, I chalk that up to not enjoying main event WWE matches as much as other styles.

 

Cesaro has the extra angle of being able to be a monster based solely on his strength, which can add a fun flavour to matches.

[Big Rob]

Will be on my list, so far I've dug pretty much all the indy stuff of his that I've watched, and his standard of work in WWE is very high. Has given several people their best match, and the minor miracle of a match on Main Event with Khali will definitely earn him points. I'm yet to dip back in to his NOAH run with Hero but I remember enjoying much of it at the time.

[Benbeeach]

Awesome, almost homerun of a wrestler. Whether you get it the first time you watch him, or the 25th, you eventually end up walking away with the idea that this guy is, if not an overall phenomenal wrestler, at least phenomenal at tons of aspects of pro wrestling (is there a better, bigger base outside of mexico? In Mexico?)
Ceasaro is the real deal, and his indy work is/was top notch as well. There are growing pains, but seeing a worker improve match by match, year by year, I don't think hurts them in something like this. He actually has TONS of output, on tape, and is nearly 10 years deep into this thing. If the ballot is due in 2016, I'm not saying he's a mortal lock, but of guys who have debuted post 2000, he has to be super high.

Him being better than Danielson is hyperbole. The last two years, yeah, I could see that, but even then it's close. Have no problem saying he's someone who hopped over a guy like Samoa Joe or Chris Hero, easily, as time progressed.

[Shining Wiz]

So, if a great wrestler gets buried in a mediocre spot, is he still great?