AJ Styles

[Badlittlekitten]

Anyone still on the fence about voting or even considering AJ (because TNA) should try and find a spare twenty minutes and give the Joe Turning Point match a look. Not only will you find an out of this world performance from Styles but a legit match of the century contender. Stick on an LP, watch the match on mute and get ready for a ride.

 

I've been critical of Styles. I find his early indie work to be fairly bland and emotionless, and until recent years his work would lose its focus in certain situations and environments. For example, his great 2005 run had blunders like the Daniels matches and the terrible three way. The guy who said he needed 'reigning in' might be right. But the good outings are too good to ignore.

 

While his facials and body language never became compelling Styles has found ways to express himself and his character through his in ring work. In the Turning Point match he jumps Joe at the bell and throws everything at the wall. You just know in his head he is thinking "I'm fucked anyway, nothing to loose, jump into the deep end!" It comes through in every strike and desperate flurry. He ends up surprised at his own success and briefly slips into cockiness as he takes on Joe toe to toe at his own game and it nearly costs him. His work against the Abyss is more calculated and rational - throw yourself at the giant but keep as much distance as possible. He pulls out perhaps the best cat and mouse performance of all time in their cage match.

 

The springboard DDT is a bit too cute for my tastes but otherwise his offence is brilliant. Fluid, smooth, often dazzling yet stiff and hurty. He could always brawl, fly and work the mat and he's stuck all them bits together to become one of the best in the world. He'll sell you a limb (vs Suzuki) and build a hot match in any setting (vs Rave, his recent WWE tags) . Bumps like a champ. He's a terrible promo and should probably clean up his look but he's no lower than top 75.

[InYourCase]

Parv reviewed that match and disliked it. I think it's a Match of the Century contender, also. It's one of the better matches I've ever seen. If for whatever reason anyone hasn't seen the Turning Point match, here it is

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL3FHvJPpls

[Matt D]

AJ is just making my list in the bottom quarter primarily on the last couple of years strengthening his case. Joe has a shot but I'm not sold. I'm not sure if I've ever seen that but I'll catch it later. Thanks for posting it.

[InYourCase]

AJ is just making my list in the bottom quarter primarily on the last couple of years strengthening his case. Joe has a shot but I'm not sold. I'm not sure if I've ever seen that but I'll catch it later. Thanks for posting it.

I'm higher on modern indie guys more than most, but Joe is someone that will rank very highly for me and if you're ranking AJ, you need to give Joe a look before ballots are due. I'll put more in his thread.

[Matt D]

I have some 2002-3 in-person nostalgia for Joe killing people, so I'm being hesitant on that.He's someone that might get slotted in somewhere.

[WingedEagle]

This thread is fascinating to read with the benefit of looking back at his work over the last few years.

[Benbeeach]

This thread is fascinating to read with the benefit of looking back at his work over the last few years.

people were just wrong

[Boss Rock]

I really think it's his 2014-present run that catapults him. If we only had the TNA stuff, I'd definitely put him top 100 but probably in the middle or latter half. I feel like his NJPW run to now has been an all-time great run. I have him at number 7 now.

[Benbeeach]

I really think it's his 2014-present run that catapults him. If we only had the TNA stuff, I'd definitely put him top 100 but probably in the middle or latter half. I feel like his NJPW run to now has been an all-time great run. I have him at number 7 now.

This run he's on is unassailable for sure and the cap on what has been a great career.

But the idea that he's some dramatically different wrestler now (not saying you're saying that) is wrong. All the things he's doing now he's been doing for a decade in a half plus. He hit hard in 2003. He could sell his ass off in '05. He could work the mic at the turn of the decade. He was an even more spectacular spot guy back then. He'd been the total package for quite some time. Call it the stink of TNA/better opponents or what have you, but I think alot people's preconceived notions about him were just flat out wrong. He didn't become "NJPW AJ Styles" or "WWE AJ Styles" he just brought AJ styles to those companies. He'd been dragging good matches out of sub shane mcmahon level workers for eons. Glad he's getting his just due finally.

[Boss Rock]

 

I really think it's his 2014-present run that catapults him. If we only had the TNA stuff, I'd definitely put him top 100 but probably in the middle or latter half. I feel like his NJPW run to now has been an all-time great run. I have him at number 7 now.

This run he's on is unassailable for sure and the cap on what has been a great career.

But the idea that he's some dramatically different wrestler now (not saying you're saying that) is wrong. All the things he's doing now he's been doing for a decade in a half plus. He hit hard in 2003. He could sell his ass off in '05. He could work the mic at the turn of the decade. He was an even more spectacular spot guy back then. He'd been the total package for quite some time. Call it the stink of TNA/better opponents or what have you, but I think alot people's preconceived notions about him were just flat out wrong. He didn't become "NJPW AJ Styles" or "WWE AJ Styles" he just brought AJ styles to those companies. He'd been dragging good matches out of sub shane mcmahon level workers for eons. Glad he's getting his just due finally.

 

 

That could very well be true. I haven't seen a ton of his later TNA stuff because I had fallen out of the company and wrestling in general around then, but he was always very good, especially 2005.

[BigBadMick]

Interesting to think back to April 2016 - he was off to a shaky start in WWE in matches with Jericho but that changed very drastically, very quickly. I'd argue the Owens feud in 207 was the first sign of him slipping, but he's kept a very high standard, pulling out really great performances when absolutely needed until now.

[El-P]

I haven't spent the last 6 years watching TNA for nothing. When you add the NJ stuff (which I really have seen only a little bit of), he's a lock for my top 15, at the very worst. The good WWE stuff is just post-prime icing on the cake. One of the most brillant pro-wrestler ever.

[Quentin]

Even without the WWE run, someone who was flirting with my top 10 the last time. Now with that run under his belt, there’s no doubt in my mind that he’s a top 10 guy.
 

The thing that may keep him from being a number 1 contender is the lack of emotion or heart to a lot of his best stuff that makes you either root for him or against him that may take a match to an all time level. But outside of this we’re talking an excellent TV worker in both WWE and TNA, one of the best gimmick match workers of all time, one of the most dazzling and innovative guys when it came to athletic spots but also in the vein of a Too Cold Scorpio, his stuff looked like it hurt too. And as he got older, took that athleticism and used it more selectively for bigger spots in the climax of matches. I would say he also has 2 years as WOTY in 2009, and maybe more controversially, 2005. I also wouldn’t bat an eye if anyone called him that for 2015 and 2016.
 

A guy where the only real knock against him is that his prime got spent in TNA, but if you do the work and can sit through 2006-2014 TNA, you’ll see a guy that never stopped busting his ass. No matter how bad the product got, no matter how much they deemphasized him in favor of older names, the bad gimmicks, etc, AJ never stopped being AJ. He never stopped being the heart and soul of that company until the day he left.

[El-P]

26 minutes ago, Quentin said:

A guy where the only real knock against him is that his prime got spent in TNA, but if you do the work and can sit through 2006-2014 TNA, you’ll see a guy that never stopped busting his ass. No matter how bad the product got, no matter how much they deemphasized him in favor of older names, the bad gimmicks, etc, AJ never stopped being AJ. He never stopped being the heart and soul of that company until the day he left.

He was already a great pro-wrestler by 2003, he had the best Raven match ever just there. And you can't scratch 2005 when it was one of the best year in the promotion's history, with the iconic Styles v Daniels (vs Joe) series and the insane carry job of Abyss.

Totally agree about the rest. Trying to think about the best TNA matches for @Superstar Sleeze podcast ended up basically listing great AJ Styles matches (many against Chris Daniels, whom is gonna have a great case too) and performances, no matter what he was being fed.

[Quentin]

11 minutes ago, El-P said:

He was already a great pro-wrestler by 2003, he had the best Raven match ever just there. And you can't scratch 2005 when it was one of the best year in the promotion's history, with the iconic Styles v Daniels (vs Joe) series and the insane carry job of Abyss.

Totally agree about the rest. Trying to think about the best TNA matches for @Superstar Sleeze podcast ended up basically listing great AJ Styles matches (many against Chris Daniels, whom is gonna have a great case too) and performances, no matter what he was being fed.

Oh yeah totally, in complete agreement on all of that, especially that he’s good before then. His ROH work for some reason gets left out because he was more associated with TNA. I just said 2006 because that’s the last good TNA year and after I think TNA starts to go on a downswing and you see AJ’s role getting diminished.

[El-P]

7 minutes ago, Quentin said:

I just said 2006 because that’s when I think TNA starts to go on a downswing and you see AJ’s role getting diminished.

Oh, ok, makes total sense then. Yeah, it's crazy, he could have totally decided to go into cruise control for years considering how bad the booking got (aka Samoa Joe, who got seemingly demoralized after they screwed him up). Instead, he piled up great matches after great matches, against all kind of different opponents, all kind of different dynamics, all kind of different gimmick matches year after year. Actually I still have the last two years of his stint to watch (but I did see the biggest matches from this period already).

[Boss Rock]

I want to revisit his later TNA career, but he's a top 15 candidate for me. His NJPW run was great, his current WWE run has been largely very good, and his 2005 was a BITW-level run. Terrific offensive wrestler who can do high-flying and spot-heavy matches or more story-driven stuff a la his first match with Cena. All-time great bumper and seller which I think has been a huge part of his success in WWE. Who else can say they've gotten to good to great matches out of Jinder Mahal, Shane McMahon, Baron Corbin, Tye Dillinger, Abyss, and Bully Ray? And as much as I love Jon Moxley, he wasn't very good as Dean Ambrose and A.J. put on great stuff with him too.

[simon]

I'd shorten that bad time frame to 2007-2014. 2006 AJ in TNA is also really worth looking at, as it's the only year we have of him in his prime in which he spends any significant length of time as a pure tag team wrestler between the AJ & Daniels vs. LAX and AJ & Daniels vs. AMW feuds that take up a solid six months of the title picture. 

[Microstatistics]

TNA Styles > NJPW Styles > WWE Styles. Great career. I should have taken him more seriously in 2016 but he should be easy Top 50 this time around.

[Makai Club #1]

I'm really down on his WWE run. AJ has had a few really good matches against the likes of Roman Reigns, Daniel Bryan and Brock Lesnar, but I have been consistently underwhelmed by him since he debuted at the Rumble. The Jericho feud was a bust. I dislike the Cena feud for reasons that aren't AJ's fault but they don't help his case. The Samoa Joe feud had some tediously dull matches by any standard. Same with the Kevin Owens series over the US title. There is more bad than good. 

I'd like to revist his TNA run more. I watched it as a kid growing up but I've not really went back and rewatched it in depth. 

[El-P]

FWIW, I believe Tanahashi said that Styles has been his favorite opponent. That's some praise.

[Boss Rock]

6 minutes ago, El-P said:

FWIW, I believe Tanahashi said that Styles has been his favorite opponent. That's some praise.

I think they both said the 2015 G1 match was their favorite match ever. Not either guy's best but still awesome and a low-key MOTYC for 2015.

[El-P]

Not seen this one. I have some great pro-wrestling to watch !  

[strobogo]

I think he suffers from the WWE style and booking/traveling style where he's working a whole lot more than he was in TNA/NJ and so he just can't go put on 5 star matches constantly. The pre-COVID WWE schedule was basically like going through the G1 every month, year round. And even during the G1, guys have a bunch of tags and breather matches built into their blocks. I think he's been about as consistently very good against everyone in all situations as anyone in WWE in the past 10+ years, basically being in the same consistency tier as only Bryan, Sasha, and New Day as a unit in the same time frame. I would agree that he doesn't have a big list of classics in WWE that he should, but neither do a lot of other top tier great workers like Joe/Nakamura/KENTA/Owens/Zayn etc so you have to take the WWE handicap into consideration in something like that, as well as realizing AJ didn't come to WWE until he was nearly 40 and Vince didn't even think people would know who he was. 

He's a dude who immediately fit into the WWE puzzle and it seemed like he'd been there for 10 years within a few months, a complete utility player who can be trusted to do ANYTHING with ANYONE and get it over, make the other guys involved look good, sell it on his promos (which was long the biggest knock against him, but he's probably a top 5 promo guy in WWE his whole run). I can't think of another guy they have besides Bryan that they can put in the headlining main events of huge shows, mid card title matches with young guys, working with legends, being a stoogy borderline comedy heel, being a sadistic heel, being a 100% white meat baby face both in an underdog role and best in the world role often at the same time. 

There's always the comparisons with HBK and you know, HBK also some feuds and matches that should have been much better than they were (like almost the entirety of his face run in 1996 for instance) that people don't seem to hold against him. 

[MoS]

3 hours ago, strobogo said:

There's always the comparisons with HBK and you know, HBK also some feuds and matches that should have been much better than they were (like almost the entirety of his face run in 1996 for instance) that people don't seem to hold against him. 

To be fair, I think people here at least very much hold it against him