Hiroshi Tanahashi

[Matt D]

That still doesn't explain Robert Gibson.

[Exposer]

When I think of J-Rock I think of that ridiculous character from the Canadian television series Trailer Park Boys.

[Grimmas]

When I think of J-Rock I think of that ridiculous character from the Canadian television series Trailer Park Boys.

know what i'm sayin'

[concrete1992]

I'm starting to consider Joe and Alan lazy for lack of Stomper Lists (Kidding on Alan since he said he'll try once work slows down. NO EXCUSE FOR JOE!)

 

In all honesty I wouldn't be opposed to voting for Tanahashi if he has some stuff earlier that comes off well. There is definitely stuff of his I've enjoyed.I won't go watching blind at this point though so hopefully someone drops down matches to watch and not just 3-5 but something that helps me understand the breadth of their career.

[W2BTD]

Stomper is a machine and I am fully incapable of putting together anything resembling a competent "Stomper List", at least off the top of my head. I'd have to go look some things up, otherwise you're going to get crappy directionless recs like "That six man from Korakuen in 2011 where he took the crazy bump over the rail. I think one of the guys he teamed with was Makabe."

 

In other words, i'm procrastinating until Alan does it.

[dawho5]

Fujita vs. Tanahashi 6/5/04

 

Probably my favorite Tanahashi match as he plays a wonderful underdog against the big amateur wrestler/shootstyle Fujita. Tanahashi gets stomped, but shows a great ability to time hope spots and get the crowd behind him.

 

Tanahashi vs. Nakamura 1/4/05

 

A chance to watch an early version of what would become a staple rivalry.

 

Tanahashi vs. Nakamura 12/10/06

 

Improvement over the previous year's match. I had some quibbles with it, but it's still really good.

 

Tanahashi vs. Kanemoto 2/18/07

 

Oddball match with Kanemoto somehow being equal or on top for most of it.

 

Tanahashi vs. Nagata 4/13/07

 

This is where you really start to see Tanahashi start to develop into what he would. Nagata massacres him and he has to try and weather the storm and come up with a way to defeat an opponent with more weapons than he has (sounds vaguely familiar to most big Tanahashi matches).

 

Tanahashi vs. Nagata 10/8/07

 

They tack on the standard nearfall-filled ending to a match that didn't support it here. Would have been an improvement with the right finish over the April bout if you ask me. Instead it's a what-if match, but worth watching for the first part.

 

Tanahashi vs. Suwama 4/9/08

 

I really liked this match. Great matchup between rising stars in their respective promotions.

 

Tanahashi vs. Nakamura 2/15/09

 

Nakamura's continued no-selling of the leg bothers me. The rest is pretty damn good.

 

Tanahashi vs. Nakanishi 5/6/09

 

Nakanishi no-sells the leg also. That aside, surprisingly good match.

 

Tanahashi vs. Nakanishi 6/20/09

 

Tanahashi is better in a worse match.

 

Tanahashi vs. Masato Tanaka 8/15/09

 

Worst match on this list by far. Fuck Masato Tanaka.

 

 

 

That's all from the Best of 2000s stuff I went through earlier this year. I thought Tanahashi was really well represented from early uber-underdog in 04 all the way to being ace in 09. His work with Nagata during the transition was a lot of fun. He even carries a stiff like Nakanishi to a watchable match in 2009, so that says something.

[BillThompson]

I've been catching up with some Tanahashi, specifically for this project. I keep hoping he'll wow me like he does Alan, Joe, and others, but I don't see it. He's a competent wrestler, sometimes very good, but nowhere near great. I haven't seen a match yet where his selling or match structure has impressed me, but he's not actively bad in those categories.

 

What I can't get over is his weak as all get out offense and terrible strikes. It doesn't matter if he's throwing a Chop, Punch, or Forearm; his strikes look like they wouldn't hurt a fly. It's laughably bad when he engages in the NJPW "I give, you give" Forearm exchanges. His opponent is usually really cracking him and then you have Tanahashi throwing these light as a feather Forearm shots that somehow hurt his opponent just as much as the stiff shots Tanhashi is being drilled with. The rest of his offense suffers from the HBK effect of looking pretty, but lacking impact. When he hits a Straightjacket German it looks beautiful, but carries little to no impact. In the wrestling aesthetic of NJPW his weak offense sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

A great example of this is his 2013 G1 Climax match versus Tomohiro Ishii. Tanahashi's strikes are awful and his offense isn't high impact enough to knock out a ten year old boy. Being in the ring against a heavy hitter like Ishii just makes Tanahashi's offense look even worse. I believe Alan and Joe when they say they love the guy, but I don't see any of the reasons they list and it's especially hard when the physicality argument is brought up and Tanahashi is the exact opposite of a believably physical wrestler.

[NintendoLogic]

I think being the only guy who knows how to pull his punches in a promotion full of dumbasses who like to concuss each other is a strong point in his favor.

[BillThompson]

He doesn't know how to pull them though. If he did they would still look good, his just look awful, and that's bad in a promotion that relies so heavily on believable physicality.

[Alan4L]

Bill, curious what you think. With all the points you raised above, why do you think crowds react to Tanahashi and his matches like they do?

 

That Ishii match I thought was the second best match of last year, and it wasn't just because Ishii was incredible in it (he was). Tanahashi was the perfect foil for what Ishii is, and all of Ishii's stuff meant so much more because of how Tanahashi reacted, and sold. The drama and the way the crowd were biting on the nearfalls and the switches in momentum was a joy to watch.

[BillThompson]

Bill, curious what you think. With all the points you raised above, why do you think crowds react to Tanahashi and his matches like they do?

 

That Ishii match I thought was the second best match of last year, and it wasn't just because Ishii was incredible in it (he was). Tanahashi was the perfect foil for what Ishii is, and all of Ishii's stuff meant so much more because of how Tanahashi reacted, and sold. The drama and the way the crowd were biting on the nearfalls and the switches in momentum was a joy to watch.

 

He has a connection with the crowd, but I'm not sure why. He does have a lot of natural charisma, so again it may be similar to an HBK situation where his flaws really don't matter as what he does entertains the crowds who come to see him.

 

I had trouble with the nearfalls in the Ishii match because I didn't buy Tanahashi's low impact moves stunning the physically more impressive Ishii as much as they did. I don't mind Tanahashi's selling in low bursts, and he's a good bumper. But his long term selling is never really there, or at least not consistently and not in that match. That being said, they really weren't going for a long term selling match that night so I certainly don't hold that against them. My main beef, and the reason I think that match is about 95% Ishii, is that Ishii is so physical and Tanahashi is trying to match that, but failing. That would be okay, but Ishii sells and bumps for Tanahashi's low impact offense because Tanahashi is the man in the company and his offense has to be sold for. It's not believable to me though, because Ishii selling for Tanahashi's terribly weak Forearm strikes doesn't make much sense in the grand scheme of the match and the NJPW style.

[ohtani's jacket]

Tanahashi's decision to work light is a conscious and deliberate thing. His forearm strikes are awful (except for in that recent Shibata match), but I think too much is made of his offensive struggles. Someone mentioned his dragon screw leg whip once, but he executes the move more effectively than Daniel Bryan as an example. He has his formula and it produces decent match after decent match and sometimes something great. He's a much better worker than Ishii. I don't expect to get much agreement on that, but Ishii is a fun albeit uber limited worker and can't produce matches of the scope of Tanahashi's broadways.

[BillThompson]

I think Ishii is far and away better than Tanahashi. More believable, more variety, better bumper, better intensity, and I buy him as a legit wrestler, something I can't say for Tanahashi. But, I'm still delving into Tanahashi's work and am hoping that at some point he sways me.

[ohtani's jacket]

Tanahashi is a performer not a wrestler's wrestler. To me that's a key difference. If you look it from his perspective, if he can't really work the mat or work holds then he might as well excel at something else ala Michaels. My (limited) take on him is that he is anti-MMA influence in wrestling and loves the pro-style so he's all flash and stretch runs. Ishii to me is a poor man's Otsuka.

[dawho5]

One of the reasons I enjoy Tanahashi is how much he stands out from the rest of the NJPW guys. He brings something completely different to the table that creates a different feel to his matches than most of your Japanese wrestling. I think the lack of impact is usually worked into the way the match plays out with Tanahashi having to make up for his lack of overt physicality in other ways. That's where I find the enjoyable parts of the matches anyway.

[Dylan Waco]

I basically agree with Bill, but I would note that I do think he is clearly charismatic even if that charisma doesn't personally connect for me. Also to Alans question, I understand why he asks it, but I'm wary of where that takes us. I love Rufus R. Jones, and most guys from my hometown will tell you he was the most over live act in the history of live events at County Hall, but even I would hesitate to call him a good worker let alone a great one.

[KrisZ]

Regarding the New Japan fans that were around 10 years ago....Tanahashi was the total antithesis of what Inoki-ISM was so he was the guy that the New Japan fans got behind because he represented what guys like Muto brought to the table. He can be seen as the hero of the revival of a regular pro wrestling style to the promotion after the shoot style craze. He has stayed on top since then and he is definitely the New Japan version of John Cena or even Shawn Michaels because when it comes to the big matches he delivers high level performances.

[pol]

I don't have much to add here but I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm really enjoying the discussion. I've started to come around on Tanahashi quite a bit and a lot of that is thanks to the work of guys like OJ. I'm definitely still someone who would rank Ishii above him overall, but I'd much rather see a Tanahashi style match than the kind of match Ishii had with Hirooki Goto on Saturday's show - which is being called MOTY in many places around the internet.

[fxnj]

I've never understood how most of the folks who slam Tanahashi for not being stiff enough seem to have no problem praising even more loosely worked US matches.

[pol]

I've never understood how most of the folks who slam Tanahashi for not being stiff enough seem to have no problem praising even more loosely worked US matches.

 

I think Bill covered that pretty well above. It's not that he works light, it's that he works light in a company where the house style is stiff.

[Alan4L]

 

I've never understood how most of the folks who slam Tanahashi for not being stiff enough seem to have no problem praising even more loosely worked US matches.

I think Bill covered that pretty well above. It's not that he works light, it's that he works light in a company where the house style is stiff.

 

I wouldn't agree with the house style being stiff. I'd argue that the house style is more leaning towards the Tanahashi/Okada style. You typically get the one crazy stiff war on every big show and it usually involes Ishii, Goto or Shibata but the top guys deploy a more measured style. Shinsuke, despite the King Of Strong Style monikor has become a very "careful" wrestler. Younger guys like KUSHIDA, Naito and Ibushi are following more in the Tanahashi style than the Ishii style.

[dawho5]

My favorite Tanahashi match is his great 2004 bout with Kazayuki Fujita. He works underdog (by a long ways) throughout and plays the plucky-but-outgunned young lion so well. The thing that struck me about the match in general was the hit Inoki-ism took despite Fujita winning. The crowd is 100% behind Tanahashi even after he loses. That match also struck me as Tanahashi playing the role he was born to play with constant movement away from that as his career progressed.

[GOTNW]

 

Shinsuke, despite the King Of Strong Style monikor has become a very "careful" wrestler.

But is that really relevant? It doesn't matter how hard he hits, it only matters how hard it looks like he hits. Kanemoto and Steve Williams are always put over as guys that were really good at protecting their opponents and their strikes looked amazing. I'd say there's a much bigger gap in how good Nakamura's and Tanahashi's strikes look than how hard they hit.

[Grimmas]

I still am not sure in what way Tanahashi is better than Nakamura? Nakamura smokes him in every category of wrestling.

[Childs]

I still am not sure in what way Tanahashi is better than Nakamura? Nakamura smokes him in every category of wrestling.

 

Tanahashi's a more dramatic bumper and better high flyer. They're on par in connecting with a crowd. Tanahashi found his identity as a top performer well before Nakamura did.

 

I like Nakamura better, but I wouldn't say he smokes Tanahashi and certainly not in every category.