Sami Zayn

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[W2BTD]

Was one of the best five wrestlers in the world (maybe number one at points) before he ever stepped in a WWE ring, which means if he has any kind of career in the biggest promotion around on the top stage, we're talking about an all timer from a workrate perspective.

 

Elite, top tier level as a sympathy garnering babyface. And to me he's actually lost some of that ability post mask, which tells you how great he was with the mask.

 

Can't imagine him outside my top 25 or so, maybe higher. Top 10 potential by the time his career is over. He's already added a coupe of classics to his resume before leaving NXT.

[Shining Wiz]

Along with Bryan and Cesaro, one the few 'modern' wrestlers likely to make my top 100. Had a run of fantastic performances running from at least 2007 until now, and in a variety of environments, in front of a variety of crowds, and performing a variety of styles. On top of all that, before making the change from Generico to Zayn, he became the most sympathetic babyface in wrestling without ever saying a word. I think the physical ability it takes to reach that point without ever cutting a promo would be impressive in ANY era, but when you consider the emphasis on talking out a story rather than wrestling out one over the past 25 years, it's all the more impressive.

[W2BTD]

The 2007 ROH Race to the Top tournament was the Generico coming out party as an elite talent. In typical Zayn fashion, he made a miracle run to the end, before falling to the man who has turned out to be his top career foe, in a final that turned out to be an amazing foreshadow, Claudio Castagnoli. Cesaro/Castagnoli is the Tiger Mask to Zayn's Dynamite, the Flair to his Steamboat, the Tanahashi to his Okada. Some pairings just create special results, and i'm sure they'll have a few more classics when they meet on the main roster.

 

As Shining Wiz alluded to, he can work any style. The Steen feud (the best long term "throwback" style feud in wrestling in ages) is a great example of this.

 

Zayn is one of the best I've ever seen at stringing together matches in a feud or series. Aside from Steen & Cesaro, you have the flat out amazing Kota Ibushi trilogy from DDT in 2012. The match to match storytelling there was incredible, and that despite one man winning all three bouts, which for one was refreshing & unpredictable, and also a little tricky to tell a compelling story when one dude never picks up a win. The Samuray Del Sol matches in DGUSA were another great example of this.

[concrete1992]

Wouldn't say that Generico is a shoe-in for my Top 100 but certainly one of the workers in contention for the back half of my list. Actually, no idea if he'll go higher but lets start there to be reasonable. He's a great babyface, had good tag team runs between ROH and PWG, and he had engaging feuds. That alone from his indie days is enough to at least be someone to give a look. Certainly have to go back and see what holds up but I've got a feeling that a good chunk will still hold value.

 

I feel he's adapted real well in NXT. I don't know how much stock I'll put into this as a point towards him but he seems to have been the best guy in WWE's development for awhile now and even on down episodes he manages to give something watchable. That might not be crazy praise but it is something when you have to go against guys like Corey Graves.

[Jmare007]

The best babyface in the business for like 5-6 years. He'll be in the top 100 for sure.

[BillThompson]

Perhaps he will have a shot in a year and a half, because I really do like him a lot. Right now though, nope, I simply haven't seen enough great work from him yet.

[Alan4L]

Was sure I was going to have to be the one to make this nomination - glad to see I was beaten to the punch. Nobody better steal the Sekimoto nomination from me though!!!

 

Anyway, Generico! To me, he's right there with Danielson for the best run on the indies of this era. So many matches that I would consider truly great. Singles against Steen, Cesaro, Bryan, CIMA, Shingo, Sekimoto, Ibushi, Richards, PAC, Del Sol, Ricochet and countless more. He knew how to put together a real worked singles "epic" which so many guys on the indies try and fail to do. Then what a great tag wrestler he was. He could be the ultimate face in peril or an explosive hot tag. Teaming with Steen he had amazing bouts against Age Of The Fall, The Bucks, Speed Muscle, New Hazard, Quack & Jigsaw and of course some of the best US indy matches ever against the Briscoes. He also had a bunch of great tags with other partners like Paul London and even Quicksilver!

 

He was the king of PWG and at times the most popular wrestler in ROH but he could also go anywhere in the world, be it Germany, England, Japan and even RUSSIA and get over instantly in front of any type of crowd. I saw him live for the first time in 2007 in a small little GAA hall in Ireland. Nobody in the crowd had a clue who he was, but even that soon into his career he was a smart enough worker that he knew exactly how to get over. It was amazing to watch.

 

He was a great babyface, a great seller, he could fly, he could base, he could brawl like a motherfucker (check out the Boston Street Fight with the Briscoes for what I feel is one of the best brawling performances I've ever seen), and he could even play aggressive quasi-heel on rare occasions like the first PWG Ricochet match.

 

As far as carrying storylines and feuds, the Briscoes feud in 2007 and the Steen feud in 2010 are his peaks but I also really liked the subtle storytelling of the Cesaro rivalry (I wouldn't say feud) in NXT.

[BigBadMick]

'I saw him live for the first time in 2007 in a small little GAA hall in Ireland'

 

What?! Where?!!

 

Don't get that much in Armagh and Down clubs....

[MJH]

He's not a priority but the work I've seen in NXT (which I think has it's good points but I don't think is great) does make me want to give his indy work a look. I don't see him breaking the 90 range on my list but I will be using some of the lower picks as markers for "let's see in ten years" and, depending on how I find his PWG stuff, etc, there's a decent chance he'll slot in at the base. Recommendations are appreciated.

[Alan4L]

He's not a priority but the work I've seen in NXT (which I think has it's good points but I don't think is great) does make me want to give his indy work a look. I don't see him breaking the 90 range on my list but I will be using some of the lower picks as markers for "let's see in ten years" and, depending on how I find his PWG stuff, etc, there's a decent chance he'll slot in at the base. Recommendations are appreciated.

 

with Steen vs The Briscoes - ROH Death Before Dishonor 2007

vs. PAC - PWG All Star Weekend 2006

vs. Dick Togo - PWG "Fear"

vs. Ricochet PWG "The Curse Of Guerrilla Island 2010" and "Death To All But Metal 2012"

 

they are just a couple that come to mind

[Alan4L]

'I saw him live for the first time in 2007 in a small little GAA hall in Ireland'

 

What?! Where?!!

 

Don't get that much in Armagh and Down clubs....

 

haha, Stillorgan/Sandyford are in Dublin. IWW flew him in. Kenichiro Arai, Tracy Smothers and the sadly retired Lupin Matsutani were also randomly on the show. Arai got PISHED in the pub round the corner from me.

[Timbo Slice]

He's basically the Ricky Steamboat of this era, as even with an unlikable prick like Steen, he was getting cheered when presented as a heel team back in the team's early ROH days. He's someone I'm really hoping I can find room for just because he's at least enjoyable in his indy work, if not outright great at times (mainly in PWG) and has had one hell of an NXT run. Of the 2000 and beyond guys, he's one that I'm considering.

[Benbeeach]

Just glad he's finally getting his just due. He was getting clobbered in 04 CZW 4 ways and was special then

[Dylan Waco]

Has definitely grown on me a ton in WWE, which makes me want to go back and re-explore some of his indie work. I enjoyed a lot of what he did on that scene but also thought he was wildly overrated by some, and never saw him as an all time elite indie guy like many did and still do. At this point I'd be more inclined to vote for someone like Cesaro or AJ (who is pretty much a lock for me at this point) than him, but a part of me thinks that reflects more on my own habits as a fan (and in the case of AJ how they have evolved), than on the actual work of the parties involved.

[TannerT]

Generico is one of the only 2000 era wrestlers I am truly confident about with locking. Guy has been the best babyface in the business for going on 8 years now and is just building up his case to me. Has had legit great matches with just about everyone and has gotten some really good stuff out of some decent at best guys. Rather it be PWG, DDT, ROH, wXw or whatver the guy constantly brings it. As of right now would be a Top 10 pick for me and I can not see him falling out of the Top 20 by the time the deadline rolls around.

[concrete1992]

Bumping him because Tanner said he wanted to give a REAL case for. Don't want him to forget.

[Loss]

Did he ever work heel? Just curious since I've only seen one indy match from him. What I'm getting at with that question is asking if he has shown that can do something other than the Sami Zayn workrate special. It's not necessarily a negative if he can't, but an explanation of any variety he has would be cool too.

[Jetlag]

He worked heel in IWS (canadian indy) earlier in his career (IIRC it was in a feud against that goof Beef Wellington where they traded apron brainbusters and triple piledrivers, so may be not quite worth seeking out). I thiiink he works heel in a youtube match against Maxime Boyer but I can't check it right now. It's been forever but I recall him not doing any exaggerated heel stuff, just working like a pissed off dick punishing guys with Yakuza kicks.

[Dylan Waco]

Being cast as a heel and working heel are different things. Important to keep in mind when thinking about a lot of modern wrestlers.

[Goodear]

I tend to be a lot more forgiving of guys that can't or didn't work heel than of guys who didn't have the range to work face. To me, especially nowadays, it is much more difficult to portray an inherently likable character than to twirl the mustache. I think its extremely telling that the majority of great baby face acts in wrestling history tend to start with heel runs so the crowd can create buy in for the character. I find myself weighing guys like Steamboat and Zayn more strongly than I possibly should just on the strength of their more difficult role.

[Jingus]

Why should Generico have ever worked heel? Absolutely everything about that guy, his gimmick, his working style, his comedic tendencies, his look, his name, all of it says "lovable babyface-for-life". And his career unmasked hasn't lasted long enough to let him do anything other than his initial gimmick. Give the WWE time, they'll turn him eventually, and then we'll see if that ever should've happened.

[Loss]

It doesn't necessarily matter, but with a career babyface like Steamboat, you can point to lots of very different matches against a wide variety of opponents over a long period of time. I'm looking for some semblance of what variety means for Sami Zayn, which is why I was asking.

[InYourCase]

Did he ever work heel? Just curious since I've only seen one indy match from him. What I'm getting at with that question is asking if he has shown that can do something other than the Sami Zayn workrate special. It's not necessarily a negative if he can't, but an explanation of any variety he has would be cool too.

He worked heel in a handful of matches that I've seen, most notably the 10/9/10 PWG show against Ricochet. Ricochet was new to the company, Generico was the gatekeeper, and Generico didn't approve of Ricochet's flippy antics. It was very interesting to watch Generico take control and use some stiffer looking offense. He projected his anger and frustration really well, also.

[SomethingSavage]

^ Even better, you can seek out their rematch - with the roles reversed - and I think it plainly illustrates that Generico is simply so much better in a babyface capacity. Ricochet plays the more arrogant rising upstart routine, and Generico is the gatekeeper babyface looking to prove he's still the top dog - even if he's a half-step behind or a split-second slower. It's a fun freaking match.

 

And yeah. It goes into overdrive at the end and becomes the Generico workrate special or whatever, but it's a lot of fun and lets things breathe a bit. While it's not completely cohesive throughout - with Ricochet looking a little lost at times with too much stalling and gaga - you still get a great structure and story from the match.