Current New Japan

[Jmare007]

Okada vs Tanahashi is gonna be the big main event for Dontaku, Naito vs Suzuki for the IC will be the other big match.

 

I wonder if Gedo will book a "IWGP vs IC champion match" for Dominion. Naito going for the title again and beating Okada in a town he has so much history with like Osaka, two years after he lost the big belt to him and started this whole reign.

[SmartMark15]

I thought that ZSJ-Okada was about as disappointing as the WK main event. Just so stretched out, padded, and heatless. Really, really disappointed in that match.

[Sean Liska]

By God I've turned into a Cody Rhodes fan.

[Kadaveri]

I'm starting to get jaded with NJPW's "every main event goes 30+ minutes" trope, it's just the same thing at every show now and it feels so mechanical. Even a junior highspots match is 30 minutes now. Why would anyone want to see Will Ospreay in such a slow-paced match.

[Jmare007]

I stopped watching Sabre matches last year because I just grew tired of the guy. Decided to watch the Okada match after all the praise he was getting for his New Japan Cup performances.

 

I was surprised at how entertained I was with it, specially the first half which I normally struggle to get through in Okada's title defenses because they are too fucking long and hold very little meaning to the overall story of his defenses. Still, the match wasn't great and once again I came out of a ZSJ match thinking he was more interested in showing off his skills than winning the match (and the main fucking belt in the company), but hey, it was better than I thought it was going to be, specially for it being 34 minutes long.

[oldbirds]

By God I've turned into a Cody Rhodes fan.

 

It happened to me as well. People forget Cody isn't the same as the guy in the WWE low-card anymore. He gets *it* now. I was so impressed by his match with Flip, he did something I miss so much in pro-wrestling. Delaying the start of the match to play with the crowd, or mess with the referee. It really adds a layer to the match.

[World's Worst Man]

Okada-ZSJ was a bit slow early on but was pretty awesome down the stretch. Ospreay-Scurrl was the opposite. I thought early on it was a pretty amazing match from those two. Selling was good, pacing was good, they weren't getting out of control. And then it went about 10 minutes past its peak and lost a ton of steam and got silly. Still a really good match overall but it really lost a lot in that last 10.

[superkix]

Suzuki/Goto has been the only NJ match this year that left some kind of impression on me. I feel like I need to rewatch Suzuki/Tanahashi but otherwise, Suzukis been the best thing about NJ in 2018.

[FMKK]

Suzuki vs Goto is my favourite New Japan match of the year so far as well. And by a distance probably. I just can't abide these super overlong main events. They never fully hold me for the entire time and they probably would if they cut out some of the excess and kept it to 15-25 minutes instead of 40.

[El-P]

Remember Choshu and Hashimoto having great matches that lasted 15 minutes ?

 

I wanted to watch Genesis, but the idea of yet another 40 minutes main event doesn't appeal to me, especially one week before Mania.

[joeg]

Question. Is part of the build to Okada eventually dropping the title that he's struggling to put away Sanada, ZSJ, EVIL, etc, which makes for longer matches and makes him seem more vulnerable ?

[FMKK]

Question. Is part of the build to Okada eventually dropping the title that he's struggling to put away Sanada, ZSJ, EVIL, etc, which makes for longer matches and makes him seem more vulnerable ?

 

I mean, they could touch on that but Ospreay and Scurll went 30 minutes and the Bucks vs Lovers tag went 40 so I think it's just the house style now

[El-P]

 

Question. Is part of the build to Okada eventually dropping the title that he's struggling to put away Sanada, ZSJ, EVIL, etc, which makes for longer matches and makes him seem more vulnerable ?

I mean, they could touch on that but Ospreay and Scurll went 30 minutes and the Bucks vs Lovers tag went 40 so I think it's just the house style now

 

Agreed. It's all about excess now. Too many dangerous spot, too many moves, too many finisher kick-outs, too many minutes.

 

It's the Pornhub generation of pro-wrestling, they can't just have fun sex for 15 minutes, they need a giant gang-bang that lasts an hour with a hundred money shots and double anals and whatnot to be able to come, or so they seem to think.

[fxnj]

The problem with the NJ style is no one really good at going long and there is far too much emphasis placed on cramming things in the stretch run at the expense of the rest of the match. The result is uneven matches that often seem more interesting when reading about them than when actually watching them. I thought Tanahashi was overrated during his prime, but now I find myself missing him as he at least understood how to use his leg work as a hook to build a match around, whereas with Okada you just get blatant time killing until the call to go home.

[El-P]

I dunno, I really loved the last two Okada vs Omega matches and the Naito one at the Dome, but you don't need Okada going more than 20 minutes against EVIL, Ospreay, etc... And you especially don't need *everyone* going more than 20 minutes. I mean, I'm not watching fucking Jay White go ten minutes.

[WingedEagle]

 

 

Question. Is part of the build to Okada eventually dropping the title that he's struggling to put away Sanada, ZSJ, EVIL, etc, which makes for longer matches and makes him seem more vulnerable ?

I mean, they could touch on that but Ospreay and Scurll went 30 minutes and the Bucks vs Lovers tag went 40 so I think it's just the house style now

 

Agreed. It's all about excess now. Too many dangerous spot, too many moves, too many finisher kick-outs, too many minutes.

 

It's the Pornhub generation of pro-wrestling, they can't just have fun sex for 15 minutes, they need a giant gang-bang that lasts an hour with a hundred money shots and double anals and whatnot to be able to come, or so they seem to think.

 

 

As much as that cracks me up, I don't think Okada/ZSJ fits that profile other than length. I don't recall any particularly dangerous spots. There was certainly some work down the stretch around countering finishers, given Sabre's run in the NJ Cup getting so many submissions via arm work that was exactly the right direction. I'm unabashedly a fan of the style at the top of the card so while I don't necessarily agree with some of the criticisms of the main event picture, I can certainly understand where its coming from as they're now routinely 30+ minute affairs and often do feature a plethora of double anal spots along the way. Just not on this night.

 

This match seemed very logical and compact in that you had an opening segment with Sabre using his work on the mat against the champ to seek out an opening, a middle portion that focused on arm work to raise doubt about the Rainmaker, and a finishing stretch with ZSJ looking for the kill while answering the question about whether Okada could still end things with the Rainmaker.

 

Other thoughts on the show:

 

I'm usually a fan of the Bucks when they work Japan and almost never a fan when they work domestically. That was the case here, as even against Yujiro (who may not be awful, but brings absolutely nothing to the table) and Chase Owens they worked a solid tag to continue establishing them as heavyweights.

 

What a horrific waste of Tomohiro Ishii. I know any kind of meaningful push is unlikely and I'm not clamoring for it. But unless you tell me these outings are necessary to preserve his body its just a tease.

 

The Tanahashi and Naito/Suzuki 6 man tags were solid and brisk, even if I thought both iterations of these multi-man matches from Korakuen were better. But they did good job furthering feuds building for the upcoming round of shows, and Tana winning should've been a sign that his match was coming sooner than Dominion.

 

Junior tag titles was a waste. It seems like all 3 teams could be put to better use. It looks like these feuds will be more focused on the April/May shows, so hopefully that's borne out in the ring.

 

I'm not a Will Ospreay guy. At all. Its also not clear if I care less for him or Marty Scurll. But this match was fantastic. Marty's work on the neck was vicious and focused, while Will's selling was consistent and meaningful. He even seemed to curb down the screaming and cursing that are usually staples of his act. There was also less flying to reflect how they were working and as a result the big spots meant even more. The Spanish Fly off the apron was absolutely bonkers and the botch & resulting blood made the finish that much stronger.

 

Golden Lovers vs. Cody & Page was solid. Its amazing to see how effective a heel Cody has become on this run, as well as how NJPW big matches are booked to further an ROH PPV main event. Strong booking here with the Bucks showing up but keeping a slow burn and saving big angles to play out down the road. I'm curious where this eventually leads. It seems like they're subtly teasing a Bucks split, and while I could see that happening for purposes of a short term angle or match, there's no way that's a result of this feud. Presumably Omega/Ibushi in a big singles outing is an eventual destination, but I'm not sure what other matches are interim goals.

 

I loved Ospreay/Scurll and Okada/Sabre and had both at ****1/2. No complaints about a show that top heavy.

 

The lineups for end of April/early May look pretty great. I thought they'd load up the Naito/Suzuki and Okada/Tana shows, but are putting NEVER and US Title matches on Korakuens. Should be fun.

[El-P]

Damn, you kinda sold me on watching that show after all.

[superkix]

I can't stomach the idea of watching Ospreay or Scurll for half an hour.

[Boss Rock]

 

 

 

Question. Is part of the build to Okada eventually dropping the title that he's struggling to put away Sanada, ZSJ, EVIL, etc, which makes for longer matches and makes him seem more vulnerable ?

I mean, they could touch on that but Ospreay and Scurll went 30 minutes and the Bucks vs Lovers tag went 40 so I think it's just the house style now

 

Agreed. It's all about excess now. Too many dangerous spot, too many moves, too many finisher kick-outs, too many minutes.

 

It's the Pornhub generation of pro-wrestling, they can't just have fun sex for 15 minutes, they need a giant gang-bang that lasts an hour with a hundred money shots and double anals and whatnot to be able to come, or so they seem to think.

 

 

As much as that cracks me up, I don't think Okada/ZSJ fits that profile other than length. I don't recall any particularly dangerous spots. There was certainly some work down the stretch around countering finishers, given Sabre's run in the NJ Cup getting so many submissions via arm work that was exactly the right direction. I'm unabashedly a fan of the style at the top of the card so while I don't necessarily agree with some of the criticisms of the main event picture, I can certainly understand where its coming from as they're now routinely 30+ minute affairs and often do feature a plethora of double anal spots along the way. Just not on this night.

 

This match seemed very logical and compact in that you had an opening segment with Sabre using his work on the mat against the champ to seek out an opening, a middle portion that focused on arm work to raise doubt about the Rainmaker, and a finishing stretch with ZSJ looking for the kill while answering the question about whether Okada could still end things with the Rainmaker.

 

Other thoughts on the show:

 

I'm usually a fan of the Bucks when they work Japan and almost never a fan when they work domestically. That was the case here, as even against Yujiro (who may not be awful, but brings absolutely nothing to the table) and Chase Owens they worked a solid tag to continue establishing them as heavyweights.

 

What a horrific waste of Tomohiro Ishii. I know any kind of meaningful push is unlikely and I'm not clamoring for it. But unless you tell me these outings are necessary to preserve his body its just a tease.

 

The Tanahashi and Naito/Suzuki 6 man tags were solid and brisk, even if I thought both iterations of these multi-man matches from Korakuen were better. But they did good job furthering feuds building for the upcoming round of shows, and Tana winning should've been a sign that his match was coming sooner than Dominion.

 

Junior tag titles was a waste. It seems like all 3 teams could be put to better use. It looks like these feuds will be more focused on the April/May shows, so hopefully that's borne out in the ring.

 

I'm not a Will Ospreay guy. At all. Its also not clear if I care less for him or Marty Scurll. But this match was fantastic. Marty's work on the neck was vicious and focused, while Will's selling was consistent and meaningful. He even seemed to curb down the screaming and cursing that are usually staples of his act. There was also less flying to reflect how they were working and as a result the big spots meant even more. The Spanish Fly off the apron was absolutely bonkers and the botch & resulting blood made the finish that much stronger.

 

Golden Lovers vs. Cody & Page was solid. Its amazing to see how effective a heel Cody has become on this run, as well as how NJPW big matches are booked to further an ROH PPV main event. Strong booking here with the Bucks showing up but keeping a slow burn and saving big angles to play out down the road. I'm curious where this eventually leads. It seems like they're subtly teasing a Bucks split, and while I could see that happening for purposes of a short term angle or match, there's no way that's a result of this feud. Presumably Omega/Ibushi in a big singles outing is an eventual destination, but I'm not sure what other matches are interim goals.

 

I loved Ospreay/Scurll and Okada/Sabre and had both at ****1/2. No complaints about a show that top heavy.

 

The lineups for end of April/early May look pretty great. I thought they'd load up the Naito/Suzuki and Okada/Tana shows, but are putting NEVER and US Title matches on Korakuens. Should be fun.

 

 

You described this better than I could. Really liked Sakura Genesis. I know the 30 minute main event style isn't everyone's cup of tea and with good reason (as much as I love the style a lot of times the first 5-10 minutes are pointless), but Okada and ZSJ did a great job with it. Same with Ospreay-Scurll. Normally these two tend to bring out the worst in each other with million miles an hour action where almost everything becomes meaningless. Instead, it was an extremely violent affair with excellent selling from Will and Scurll exchanging the wing flapping hamminess for a mean streak and nasty killer instinct. This version of Marty Scurll is a good wrestler. Cody/Page vs. Lovers was also really good. Will probably never love Cody as an in-ring worker but his character work and heeling is phenomenal.

[FMKK]

I don't mind long matches per se, but they become a chore if it's the norm rather than something out of the ordinary. Especially if it seems clear that the wrestlers are just filling time because they've been mandated to go longer than 30 minutes.

 

As much as people complained about Brock Lesnar last year, there was something refreshing about WWE booking all his matches to be monster sprints that didn't break 10 minutes. Variety is important to me.

[Boss Rock]

The 30-minute rule is indeed a bit of a double-edged sword. Some guys can pull it off really well, others just fill time until the 10 minute mark. I really liked the SANADA and Ospreay matches against Okada, but both would have been even better with a 5-10 minute shaving. You also know not to expect a finish too soon. And a lot of the great NJPW matches from the last few years were under the 30 minute mark. Styles-Suzuki, Ibushi-Nakamura, heck I watched a Naito-Ishii match from 2014 that was under 20 and was an absolute banger.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I can't stomach the idea of watching Ospreay or Scurll for half an hour.

 

Yeah that sounds horrific even though I have enjoyed them together a couple times previously.

[joeg]

I didn't get the Golden Lovers vs BC match. So this feud has been building since like November. The big angle was a month ago, the big blow off grudge match is in a week, yet this match looked more like an unimportant flippy indy juniors match than it did build up to a big grudge match. Where was the hate? where was the aggression? There's just a disconnect for me between the violence, contempt and hatred shown in the angles and the graceful, aerobatic displaces of athleticism that have been the matches on this feud.

[WingedEagle]

I didn't get the Golden Lovers vs BC match. So this feud has been building since like November. The big angle was a month ago, the big blow off grudge match is in a week, yet this match looked more like an unimportant flippy indy juniors match than it did build up to a big grudge match. Where was the hate? where was the aggression? There's just a disconnect for me between the violence, contempt and hatred shown in the angles and the graceful, aerobatic displaces of athleticism that have been the matches on this feud.

 

The hate you're looking for right now is between Omega and Cody. Lovers/Bucks was built entirely as an issue of respect and somewhat around who's the best tag team, with the Bucks making the jump to heavyweight. No strong personal issues between them and Omega at this point.

[superkix]

The whole Golden Lovers reunion feels like such blatant fan service, I haven't been able to get into any of it.