Crowd Chants

[Grimmas]

I don't have a problem with the chants. They are just a symptom of people watching to be entertained as opposed to caring about who wins or loses.

 

Whether wrestling being viewed as a form of entertainment instead of a contest is good or bad is a different argument. Obviously I prefer it as a contest where it matters who wins and who loses, but is that better or worse?

 

This whole argument should be moved, I would think.

 

EDIT: So, I moved it. Continue arguing crowd chants here.

[FedEx227]

This all sounds a lot like, "I don't cheer like that, so it's stupid that other people do things in a way I don't like!".

 

Things change, maybe the standard that crowds are judged by shoul..........no. Forget I said that.

 

Right, this whole discussion is pretty ridiculous and short-sighted. The modern "BOO" / "YAY" is chants. I don't chant when I go to shows but it doesn't bother me. People are paying money to go to a wrestling event, you can do and say whatever the hell you want as long as it's not vulgar. If that's what makes fans enjoy modern wrestling and the modern wrestlers gear their matches towards it, again, who cares? I can enjoy a match just the same if people are saying "This is awesome!" during a spot or cheering.

[Grimmas]

I did really enjoy the "This is awesome" chants before the Wyatts-Shield match this year.

[Loss]

It's not about othering anyone. But I think most people posting in this thread see wrestling as more enjoyable to watch when crowds allow themselves to get wrapped up in the moment. Wrestling is best when fans get so into a match and so invested in the outcome that they care who wins and who loses and react accordingly. They are rooting for someone they like and against someone they don't. Lord knows I have no problem with people watching wrestling critically, and I'd be the last person qualified to say that if for some reason I did. It's not that people are more aware now than they used to be that wrestling is fake. It's that the people involved barely bother to pretend that they mean anything they say or do anymore, which makes it harder for fans to suspend disbelief. Yes, the chants are annoying, but I feel like most of the fingerpointing should go to the wrestlers working the match and the people presenting it, because the way wrestling is presented and worked encourages that kind of emotional detachment. If a strong babyface is presented against a strong heel and the match is worked in accordance with that, set aside the real-fake issue or times changing. Even now, people will still give it the same visceral response they always have.

[Grimmas]

I like that this stemmed out of the Daniel Bryan thread, because he was someone that the crowd actually cared whether he won or loss. Batista was booed out of the building for having the audacity to not be Bryan.

[BillThompson]

 

This all sounds a lot like, "I don't cheer like that, so it's stupid that other people do things in a way I don't like!".

 

Things change, maybe the standard that crowds are judged by shoul..........no. Forget I said that.

 

Right, this whole discussion is pretty ridiculous and short-sighted. The modern "BOO" / "YAY" is chants. I don't chant when I go to shows but it doesn't bother me. People are paying money to go to a wrestling event, you can do and say whatever the hell you want as long as it's not vulgar. If that's what makes fans enjoy modern wrestling and the modern wrestlers gear their matches towards it, again, who cares? I can enjoy a match just the same if people are saying "This is awesome!" during a spot or cheering.

 

 

Sure, you can go and chant/say whatever you want when you're paying money, but by the same token I can voice my displeasure for the distracting and self-serving chants taking place on an event I've paid to watch. Different people have different things that float their boat, grind their gears, etc. The chants are something that get to me because they have a clear beginning that can be traced and because of that I don't believe they are the modern equivalent of "boo/yay." They're attempts by fans to get themselves over instead of caring about the wrestling, and that can at times turn me off of a match the same way a dead crowd can, because they both are representative of fans not caring about what they're seeing.

[JerryvonKramer]

Joe did hit on something which was that IF fans were a bit more discerning with when they do those chants, it wouldn't be quite so risible and annoying.

I went to those two indie shows last year, one in Stevenage "Southside Wrestling" and the other in London at York Hall in Bethnal Green to see Liger, among others, for Revolution Pro.

The key difference between these two shows were the crowds. The Stevenage crowd had a lot of kids there, and families. The heels played up their villainy for boos, the faces were cheered. And this was just *so much fun*. I thought to myself, "well, if this was local, I could come to this every single week no problem". Having a crowd like that made the basic psychology of the work in the ring very solid. I was impressed with that show.

The London show had a much more "hardcore indie" crowd. They were busting out "This is Awesome" chants left, right and centre. They were driving me up the fucking wall with it. And it had a really adverse effect on the work in the ring, which was -- on the whole -- much spottier and lacking in basic psychology. Some guys were on both cards, and they all seemed better on the Southside one. Seems to me the dickhead crowd were entirely to blame. They were just *waiting* to get their shit in. "Holy shit!" "This is awesome" and all the rest of it. There was a guy from this board who went with me who would be able to attest my utter disdain for that crowd. They were ENCOURAGING bad work actively. It's one thing being a "smart" crowd, it's another to be a "smart" crowd that only seems to want to see cool spots. It's philistine chanting of the worst order. You can say what you want about old southern crowds, at least they understood good wrestling when they saw it.

If I could have my way, I'd literally ban crowds like that -- I reckon they've done as much damage to the business as Russo or Bischoff. I'd sooner have the old-school Japanese business guys in their suits on those 6pm shows in the 70s clapping politely than a crowd like that.

Interestingly, when I went to see Hogan at that TNA show, I did witness a *third* type of crowd at Wembley arena. That was your "soccer" style crowd who were going to chant and sing songs, and have their own fun, virtually regardless of what was going on in the ring. I had no idea who were faces or heels at that show, other than Hogan who was massively cheered, but THAT crowd was really good in its own way too.

But yeah, I don't really care if I hurt anyone's sensibilities, I flat out hate the style of indie crowd I witnessed at that Bethnal Green show and think they actively ruin wrestling. I'd prefer them to spend their money at home on their New Japan iPPV or whatever.

[Steenalized]

The only time I get annoyed by crowd chants are "you fucked up" and, depending on the situation, "this is awesome." The latter doesn't inherently bother me but I think some people are a wee bit trigger happy on busting it out. "This is wrestling" is kinda cringy, but it have never altered my enjoyment of a match. I'll be at an AAW show tonight. The crowd will chant, I'll probably chant at some point, it's part of the experience. Do I think intense crowd reactions are more enjoyable? Yes, I suppose, when you get real, legitimate heat on a match, then I'd rather have booing and cheering than a "this is awesome" chant. I personally boo heels and cheer faces the majority of the time anyways.

[FedEx227]

I disagree that "THIS IS AWESOME!" is a way to get the fans over to...themselves I guess. There are instances of "WE ARE AWESOME!" which, yeah, that's beyond grating and as Joe mentioned earlier, "YOU FUCKED UP!" which I've always hated.

 

I've gone to probably 150 indie shows over the last 10 years and I've never thought that "This is Awesome" was anything more than "Thank you wrestlers in the ring for putting on an entertaining match that we in this crowd enjoy" It has little to do with the crowd putting themselves over.

[FedEx227]

The only time I get annoyed by crowd chants are "you fucked up" and, depending on the situation, "this is awesome." The latter doesn't inherently bother me but I think some people are a wee bit trigger happy on busting it out. "This is wrestling" is kinda cringy, but it have never altered my enjoyment of a match. I'll be at an AAW show tonight. The crowd will chant, I'll probably chant at some point, it's part of the experience. Do I think intense crowd reactions are more enjoyable? Yes, I suppose, when you get real, legitimate heat on a match, then I'd rather have booing and cheering than a "this is awesome" chant. I personally boo heels and cheer faces the majority of the time anyways.

 

I'm going to be watching you like a hawk tonight and tattling if you chant.

[JerryvonKramer]

"Thank you wrestlers in the ring for putting on an entertaining match that we in this crowd enjoy"

This isn't much better though is it? It's creepy. Why are the crowd sucking up to the wrestlers? Wet. Why not bust out the "We are not worthy" chant too?

 

I do agree with Loss though that the workers and promoters should be stronger in working whatever style they want and stop pandering to these crowds. It's a vicious cycle that ends up making workers actively worse.

[Jesse Ewiak]

Sorry, this is another "kids get off my lawn" thread that is basically implying fans who don't act like it's still 1987 aren't real fans. Give me a PWG show where there are silly chants, but the fans are actually into almost every one of the wrestlers over a RAW show where only four guys are over, but nobody else gets a reaction, but hey, at least the 20% of the crowd that actually is paying attention is "reacting correctly."

 

Anybody who ever cheered or booed The Ultimate Warrior was in a way, incentivizing bad work. We don't call those people bad fans, simply because they cheered a style of wrestling you didn't personally like.

[JerryvonKramer]

Actually I've called 1980 MSG crowds "idiots" on many occasions. I have no problem criticizing crowds from different eras. None at all.

[anotherspammer]

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with chanting "this is awesome" but it just so happens that most of the time I seem to have a markedly different opinion than the crowd over what makes a match "awesome."

[Jesse Ewiak]

Actually I've called 1980 MSG crowds "idiots" on many occasions. I have no problem criticizing crowds from different eras. None at all.

Don't worry, Parv. I'm well aware you have low opinions of all types of wrestling crowds of all shapes, sizes, nationalities, and time periods. It's a part of your charm.

[Steenalized]

 

The only time I get annoyed by crowd chants are "you fucked up" and, depending on the situation, "this is awesome." The latter doesn't inherently bother me but I think some people are a wee bit trigger happy on busting it out. "This is wrestling" is kinda cringy, but it have never altered my enjoyment of a match. I'll be at an AAW show tonight. The crowd will chant, I'll probably chant at some point, it's part of the experience. Do I think intense crowd reactions are more enjoyable? Yes, I suppose, when you get real, legitimate heat on a match, then I'd rather have booing and cheering than a "this is awesome" chant. I personally boo heels and cheer faces the majority of the time anyways.

 

I'm going to be watching you like a hawk tonight and tattling if you chant.

 

I'll chant something at some point, but it better be a mind blowing match to get "this is awesome." I'm a regular for "Let's go [wrestler name]"

 

 

"Thank you wrestlers in the ring for putting on an entertaining match that we in this crowd enjoy"

This isn't much better though is it? It's creepy. Why are the crowd sucking up to the wrestlers? Wet. Why not bust out the "We are not worthy" chant too?

 

I do agree with Loss though that the workers and promoters should be stronger in working whatever style they want and stop pandering to these crowds. It's a vicious cycle that ends up making workers actively worse.

 

 

Wrestler's are (minor) celebrities to basically everyone in the audience, whether at a WWE show or an indy show, so there's some idolizing. And it's a lot more personal/intimate setting at an indy show with 200-300 people than at an arena show with thousands, maybe even tens of thousands for the biggest ones.

[BillThompson]

Sorry, this is another "kids get off my lawn" thread that is basically implying fans who don't act like it's still 1987 aren't real fans. Give me a PWG show where there are silly chants, but the fans are actually into almost every one of the wrestlers over a RAW show where only four guys are over, but nobody else gets a reaction, but hey, at least the 20% of the crowd that actually is paying attention is "reacting correctly."

 

It's not a get off my lawn situation, because era or age has nothing to do with it from my end. They're also still fans, just not fans I really want to associate with because they would ruin my enjoyment of the wrestling we're watching. It's no different than the idiots at baseball games who hurl personal insults at the players, they're still fans, but my hubris comes over the fact that they are only interested in making the event all about them.

[Dooley]

This does seem like a really petty thing to be upset about. People chant at events, it's a thing. Someone mentioned rock concerts, are they seriously implying that they've never heard anyone chant the name of the band or the singer/guitarist/whatever during a song break or before the encore?

 

Another mentioned boxing matches, there's tons of examples of fans chanting a fighter's name. People chant for the hosts of TV shows when they're in the live audience. Is the argument that these people aren't enjoying Stephen Colbert appropriately by choosing to chant his name rather than just applaud?

 

"Let's go Red Sox" or [insert team name here] is heard at almost every sporting event. A couple of years ago, during the NHL playoff series between the Rangers and Caps, the fans in each building even had a chant war going. Caps coach Bruce Boudreau said the fans at MSG weren't as loud as the Caps fans. So the next game, the MSG faithful showered the Caps with chants of "can you hear us?". Not to be outdone, when the series went back to Washington, the Caps fans responded with "we are louder!" chants. So were these fans not enjoying playoff hockey correctly and not involved in the atmosphere?

 

Anywhere you've got a crowd organized, there's a risk of a chant breaking out. Get over it.

[El-P]

"Please don't stop" is a little too kinky for a wrestling show. You kind of expect "Fuck me harder" to be the next chant in that progression.

 

You got a legit laugh out of me.

[El-P]

Really, "What ?" is the most annoying chant ever at this point. Not the stupidest one (plenty have been mentionned already, "We want tables" during the Attitude era was also unbearably stupid), but the most annoying.

[Timbo Slice]

The main problem with me is that crowd chants, more than anything else, have become more about getting the crowd over than it is about reacting to something that the wrestlers do. It's about people hearing them and thinking, "Wow, those guys know what's going on. That's funny/smart/good." That doesn't sit well with me and it really hasn't ever since it started. Even with me being a big ECW fan, I was never a big fan of the chants they'd come up with. Rooting for the face or booing the heel is just how I like wrestling. I don't need affirmation from a bunch of fans trying to get over to tell me how I should feel about something they see.

[Loss]

Again, my problem isn't the chants, it's working and catering to the chants. If that stopped, the chanting may still happen, but it wouldn't be as prevalent.

[Jesse Ewiak]

 

Sorry, this is another "kids get off my lawn" thread that is basically implying fans who don't act like it's still 1987 aren't real fans. Give me a PWG show where there are silly chants, but the fans are actually into almost every one of the wrestlers over a RAW show where only four guys are over, but nobody else gets a reaction, but hey, at least the 20% of the crowd that actually is paying attention is "reacting correctly."

 

It's not a get off my lawn situation, because era or age has nothing to do with it from my end. They're also still fans, just not fans I really want to associate with because they would ruin my enjoyment of the wrestling we're watching. It's no different than the idiots at baseball games who hurl personal insults at the players, they're still fans, but my hubris comes over the fact that they are only interested in making the event all about them.

 

But, this is the exact opposite of "hurling insults." This is showering praise on the wrestlers. I bet you every football, basketball, and baseball player in the world would love it if the crowds would chant "This is Awesome" after a home run, amazing catch, or whatever.

 

Again, my problem isn't the chants, it's working and catering to the chants. If that stopped, the chanting may still happen, but it wouldn't be as prevalent.

But, if that's your audience, why not react to it? I mean, for all the talking about "bad crowd," I've never seen a crowd at a PWG show that's been less than pretty hot while I've seen plenty of supposedly great Southern indy matches from wrestlers who can supposedly really work as opposed to those spot monkeys over at PWG, that are indeed, pretty good, being done in front of a dead crowd that doesn't seem to care all that much.

 

I mean, should Adrian Adonis not worked to various anti-gay chants just because anti-gay chants aren't the best thing in the world? Again, yeah, if it's a dead crowd aside from the chants, I can see the issue, but as other people have noted, the hottest crowds even in recent WWE history have been chant heavy. Maybe the sad truth is that the only wrestling fans who actually care are the chant-heavy smarks, since at least they're reacting to people who aren't named Cena, Orton, or Lesnar.

[Grimmas]

 

 

Sorry, this is another "kids get off my lawn" thread that is basically implying fans who don't act like it's still 1987 aren't real fans. Give me a PWG show where there are silly chants, but the fans are actually into almost every one of the wrestlers over a RAW show where only four guys are over, but nobody else gets a reaction, but hey, at least the 20% of the crowd that actually is paying attention is "reacting correctly."

 

It's not a get off my lawn situation, because era or age has nothing to do with it from my end. They're also still fans, just not fans I really want to associate with because they would ruin my enjoyment of the wrestling we're watching. It's no different than the idiots at baseball games who hurl personal insults at the players, they're still fans, but my hubris comes over the fact that they are only interested in making the event all about them.

 

But, this is the exact opposite of "hurling insults." This is showering praise on the wrestlers. I bet you every football, basketball, and baseball player in the world would love it if the crowds would chant "This is Awesome" after a home run, amazing catch, or whatever.

 

However if the home crowd chanted "This is awesome!" when the road team tied the game up in the last minute to send it to overtime, the players on the home team would be pissed. That's the difference.

 

"This is awesome" is a chant to say you like what is going on, it implies you don't care who wins.

 

That is a problem with the actually company and wrestlers, not the fans.

[Loss]

I suspect the Southern indy guys you are referencing, without knowing who they are, are doing derivative imitation old school wrestling like Adam Pearce instead of something that seems contemporary. I'm not advocating that indy workers start complaining about hair pulling and asking for time-outs, and I'm not even really advocating them making wrestling like it used to be. But I would like to see more of a premium on making people like and dislike wrestlers because of their personalities, and that can absolutely be done without sacrificing the level of action or athleticism. I also think it's the role of the wrestler to set the mood of the building, and if it's not to their liking, change it through their actions in the ring. That's the mark of a great worker. Great wrestlers are usually able to dictate the atmosphere instead of having it dictated to them. Predisposition plays a role, but it's not everything by any means.

 

I realize fans won't be jumping the rails to get at the bad guys anytime soon, but I still think fans will boo assholes no matter how good they are in the ring, just like they will be sympathetic to great selling performances.