Jmare007 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I've been watching a lot of Lucha lately for the GWE project and it's amazing how fucking atrocious the commentary is for at least 90% of matches I've seen (80's project and yearbook stuff, mostly). I can't seem to really enjoy most of the matches even though I appreciate the work that is being done and I can see how great the wrestlers are. The more I watch, the more it feels like a chore to sit through the same boring and unfocused play by play Luchas has, it kinda makes me want to not know Spanish when watching it. Although I've never seen a Lucha match called with the excitement good puro matches normally have. I wonder if knowing Japanese would affect my enjoyment of that style. Anyone else has troubles to really enjoy something when commentary is bad? I know a lot of us have had a hard time sitting through RAW when all we hear from the announcers is constant bickering and almost no real play by play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm too biased towards commentary because I always see potential and always want it to be better and because of my own background, but there's very few commentators in history who knew how to get things over to the point where it added to the product that wasn't overbearing, grating or over the top. The best guys from a pure standpoint are normally the color guys who can get over characters. Brain and Regal are the two that come to mind immediately. Ross, Solie and Russell are the best ever from a PBP standpoint, but we're talking about a small number of guys that knew what should be done when they were behind the microphone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I only know half a dozen Spanish words, but Alfonso Morales and Arturo Rivera always seem excited to me. I usually listen to music while watching wrestling. The only commentator I make a point of listening to is Walton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Great wrestling doesn't always need commentary to help out, but sometimes so-so wrestling can be made way better by good commentary. Also it helps when your commentators get feuds and angles over to help get everyone over to the people watching at home. There's nothing worse than commentators (in any language) that spend all their time getting themselves over or just fucking around instead of trying to sell the audience on what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Alfonso Morales ruled. Fukuzawa ruled. Only foreign announcers I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 It's very easy for me to zone in and out commentary. I like Dr. Alfonso Morales a lot, although he has some really odd moments at times, like sometimes claiming Lex Luger invented the small package (probably because of the "Total Package" nickname) and can be repetitious (but who isn't really?). I need to listen to more, but Javier Llanes is good too. Modern WWE and UFC is really poor, but it's really easy for me to just concentrate on the match and crowd. I guess I don't put much importance on commentary since I just don't expect much from it. When it's actually good, it's a nice surprise. But if it's not, I just ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I like Dr. Alfonso Morales a lot, although he has some really odd moments at times, like sometimes claiming Lex Luger invented the small package Thank you! Whenever I heard him say this I just figured that my terrible knowledge of Spanish was causing me to misunderstand him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Great wrestling I think for the most part can get by, but whoever said so-so wrestling can be greatly enhanced by good commentary is dead-on. I have been slowly working my way through the complete run on WWF Superstars 87. Most matches are jobber squashes and super predictable, but I have no desire to fast forward because Vince and Jesse were so great themselves at keeping me enthralled in the current storylines of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm a massive commentary guy and can never understand it when people say they watch with the sound down or whatever. To me it's absolutely part and parcel of what makes wrestling enjoyable, and it's one of the major barriers for me watching modern WWE for any period of time, or shit like 00s indie stuff. Kal Rudman has made many a boring Philly card about 100% more watchable. I'm also the world's biggest Ventura mark. Perhaps my strong investment in the presentational and "wider world" aspects of wrestling beyond just the match has been a contributing factor for my apparent inability to get into Lucha, where the wrestling has been good or even excellent but I'm still like "I just don't give a shit". That said I plan on finishing the 80s set before WM 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I also can't understand why someone would watch wrestling with the sound turned off but that's because I love the sound of bumping and the strikes. The commentary isn't really a factor for me unless it's especially good or bad. Japanese commentary is generally amazing. Lucha commentary amuses me though I understand nothing. American commentary is shitty. My favourite commentators would be the guys who call BJW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I can only imagine how much more epic some of those WCCW matches in the mid-80's would have been had anyone but Mark Lowrance been the commentator...or the ring announcer, for that matter. Only Lowrance could make the ring introductions for a blood feud sound like the combatants were there to participate in a colouring contest. EDIT: There used to be a way on the big dish back in the 80's to tune out commentators during hockey games and other sports and just enjoy the game with crowd noise. If only that was a feature with some wrestling shows....wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 My thing with commentary is that, although I MUCH prefer good commentary on matches (and I did like Lowrance Kevin and thought he had his own flare to those matches), the thing with me is there almost has to be SOME commentary.. Even if in Spanish or Japanese, having someone there calling the matches and getting emotional during moments is VITAL for me to watch a match...I have a really hard time watching matches with no commentary, which is why I have a hard time with hand helds or house shows with no commentary, I just cant get into them.. That being said, good commentary makes it way better...but to me as long as the commentary fits what is going on for that show (territory) I am fine with it... In the end, anything is better than nothing... Ross in the 80's and 90's was the peak of PBP for me...he had so many amazing calls Solie great for older matches Russell was really good in anything he did Lowrance fit for some reason in Texas Mercer just to hear him miss call moves all the time Schiavone / Crockett cause its hilarious to watch Tony try to call it seriously while Crockett busts his nut and yells over him ("He's got him, ok, here he goes...Come on Dusty!") Crockett always reminded me of a guy that goes to a convention, goes to a "Call your own match" booth to make a tape to take home... Ventura for color with the rest lagging behind... If I understood Japanese I think those guys would be nesr the top for me as they have so much passion and enthusiam for what they are watching... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Hoard Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Anyone else has troubles to really enjoy something when commentary is bad? This is one reason I could never get into WCW after the mid 90's. The first hour of Nitro may have had these amazing matches, but hearing Schiavone, Zybsko and Heenan rattle on ad nauseam about the NWO instead of calling the match turned me off. JR and Lawler were much better at calling the in ring action and at the same time getting over whatever dastardly plan McMahon had in store for Austin each week. I've always been like if the announcers don't care about what they're watching, why should I? On the other hand, guys Like Monsoon and Rudman could make a 20 minute Sal Bellomo vs Tiger Chung Lee match interesting, which is quite the accomplishment. Same for David Crockett...how can you not get excited and invested, when he was losing his shit calling Magnum TA vs Thunderfoot #1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Good commentary, or commentary at all, isn't necessary for me if I'm just watching matches for something like the 80s project. If I'm trying to watch a run of TV from something, THEN it's pretty important. It's one of the reasons I've never really gotten into WCCW actually, I don't like Mercer at all and Lowrance isn't much better (except for the small period of time he was with Terrance Garvin) Late 80s AWA was always going to struggle but having Trongard and James Blears constantly blathering didn't give you any reason to watch their rapidly diminishing talent pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think I am only one of a few that LOVE Rod Troungard's calls in the AWA.... Just fit it in the 80's....Bockwinkel / Hennig 60 Min Draw (my #1 match of all time) wouldnt be the same without it to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigelow34 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have been rewatching all the WCW PPVs/COTCs on and off over the last six months and am into mid-94. I will say I much prefer Jesse & Tony to Jesse & JR. In fact, Jesse & Tony has quickly become one of my favorite pairings of all time after going through 1993. Really on point in getting the storylines and matches over while also having some fun while doing it.Tony was a good sport and Jesse talked to him more like his kid brother than anything else. As much as I love Bobby, there is a noticeable dropoff when he is swapped into the booth in 94. Tony even seems to perk up more when Jesse pops in for a match here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Totally agree with that Justin on Tony and Jesse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Tony and Jesse are very underrated and as soon as you mentioned that Justin I remembered their 93 shows that were really good Jesse was amazing as a psychology guy during that run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think I am only one of a few that LOVE Rod Troungard's calls in the AWA.... Just fit it in the 80's....Bockwinkel / Hennig 60 Min Draw (my #1 match of all time) wouldnt be the same without it to me.... Yeah, it would be a helluva lot better. Those two clowns basically projected it would be a draw ten minutes in IIRC. Trongaard I liked in his JIP commentary bits from St. Paul, the arena matches they used to show on the regular TV. His Vegas call was not horrible on it's own, but trying to keep up with Blears and his "Tally Ho! Bobby-Dazzler!" drivel drove him to a place that made his commentary way worse than he could be in the right environment. Also LOL at Lowrance having any flare to his commentary. He would have sounded the same calling Flair vs. Brody as doing play by play at a funeral. Mercer wasn't much better. The idea of Texas, as a whole, having the philosophy of "Everything's Bigger!" made their pro wrestling announcer choices very curious, to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Also, because I've been watching some discs of Pro Wrestling Plus over the last few days, I'll add to my wish list of someone other than Ed Whalen doing commentary on all that glorious old Stampede footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 EDIT: There used to be a way on the big dish back in the 80's to tune out commentators during hockey games and other sports and just enjoy the game with crowd noise. If only that was a feature with some wrestling shows....wow. MLB.TV has this feature. Actually you can put either video feed with any of the radio or TV teams, or ambient noise. Great for eliminating Hawk Harrelson and a few others. As for wrestling, great commentary is a nice but not necessary bonus, but truly bad commentary can go a long way towards killing a mood for me and I'd rather have none than bad. It takes some pretty bad announcing to reach that level, though. Unfortunately I've probably let it bias me against some scenes, like some modern indy seems to have that combination of smark talk and douchey voices. I don't think I notice bad commentary in languages I don't speak. And it took until the Mid-South set for me to get really used to commentary-free matches. I definitely agree about Schiavone and Ventura being great together, in WWF as well as WCW. One of my favorite bits was when Jesse would push Tony just a bit too far, get him to snap back, and have to apologize in-character. At SuperBrawl III, Jesse made a joke about Tony beating his kids--"Now you stop that, Jesse!" This would be a good place to mention that it occurred to me the other day WCW in 1990 had probably the most talented and almost certainly the biggest announcing cast of all time. Jim Ross, Gordon Solie, Lance Russell, Tony Schiavone, Bob Caudle, Chris Cruise, Paul E, Jim Cornette, Teddy Long, Missy Hyatt, Terry Funk, Dutch Mantel, Michael Hayes, and Jimmy Garvin all worked regularly at some point during the year, if I'm even remembering everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Commentary's very important in all its forms, but the comment on how wrestling feels without it is interesting. I remember seeing WCW house show footage from the late 80s and early 90s: something as good as Dustin vs. Windham actually seemed less exciting without the commentary. Conversely, present-day WWE house show footage is amazing, in that you can see how good the workers are in a single-camera still frame, and hear what's working with the crowd (which is often more than I'd expect). It's perhaps the most telling indicator that WWE is overproduced, and how much better it would be without bad camera work/scripting/commentary. If you were judging the company on what someone shot on their phone and posted to Youtube, you'd think this was a hot product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Commentary isn't a necessity by any means: wrestling is fucking simple and requires no real translation, hence a Maria Menounos (sp?) gravitating towards it on TV as a kid who spoke little/no English. The best comparison I can think of is surtitles in opera: they're useful if you've never seen the opera before as they make the plot more comprehensible and explain what's going on line-by-line, breaking the plot down for you... but if you've read the synopsis in the program then you don't really get much out of them, the music sells itself, and you quickly realise how terrible most librettos are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I only know half a dozen Spanish words, but Alfonso Morales and Arturo Rivera always seem excited to me. I usually listen to music while watching wrestling. The only commentator I make a point of listening to is Walton. Morales is so damn frustrating. He gives some awesome bits of backround from the wrestlers but then he'll switch his focus and talk about El Gran Davis ad nauseam (and it's always the same cliches and phrases, there's nothing fresh about it) or talk about stuff that adds nothing to the match, most of the time he'll call a move and then move on to talk about whatever. Showing real excitement is the most annoying though. Because when they do sound hyped or surprised, most of the time it comes off as phony or as if they are reading lines from a script - which I know it's not the case, but that's how they sound - there are exceptions, but man it's hard to find them. I'll love to zone out and just enjoy the work but unless it's a Casas match, I have a really hard time getting into matches and really investing emotionally because of commentary. edit: Another thing that adds to my frustration of lucha commentary is that it's completely different from other sports (in a bad way). Latino play by play guys are amazing when calling sports. Mexico specially is great at having outstanding people calling futbol, basketball and boxing (only argentinians are better at it). So watching such a watered down version when it comes to wrestling really puts me off the product. Hell, put Carlos Cabrera and Hugo Savinovich on commentary and things would be unquestionably better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm so glad I don't speak Japanese or Spanish. That way the commentators don't distract me from the wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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