Steenalized Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Just to be clear, defamation per se doesn't shift the burden of proof on any of the other elements. It just means that Amann doesn't have to show that he was damaged by Punk's statements. He does have to show that Punk either knew his statements were false or, if he believed them to be true, didn't have reasonable grounds for that belief. Correct, but proving actual damage in defamation is often the biggest hurdle. If he raises defamation per se then he won't have to show a loss of business or some other damages. He still has to show at least negligence on Punk's part. The publication element is pretty obvious, so it comes down to whether the statements were false and whether Punk was at least negligent. Unless he has documentation that counters what Punk said, I don't think he has a chance of winning. But he had to do this regardless, this will destroy any practice he has. He won't need 'documentation,' testimony could be sufficient particularly if it goes to court. Which, playing the odds, it likely won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm not a legal eagle....but doesn't "defamation of character" just equate to "a guy shit on me and it hurt my reputation" Like, I seriously don't doubt that Punk had a nasty staph infection and has the medical records to prove it. And I doubt WWE has medical records to prove or disprove his claims. And then it becomes he said he said hearsay Knowing WWE, I highly doubt Punk was getting CTE checks on their dime......I'm reminded of a recent lapsed fan podcast I listened to where Meltzer was taking about how Lashley had a bad shoulder injury during the middle of his big push and they wanted him to keep working and he was like "fuck this, I need to fix my shoulder" and went and did it without their "blessing" and the company was super pissed about it, and he left the company afterwards. I'm sure if it ever got to that point Punk would have dozens of character witnesses on his side and the "Vince talked me into working when I was really hurting" stories jive with pretty much every story from every wrestler ever. And note that Punk didn't try to sue WWE over this shit, because it's wrestling, and he knows the deal. He called Ammon an incompetent dumbshit, which he may or may not be, but this just feels like a cash grab "you hurt my feelings" frivolous law suit to me that Judge Judy would toss out of court Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Another sticking point is that Amman is not a public figure, so "actual malice" is not a burden he has to meet (i.e., Punk doesn't have to have knowingly lied to be found liable). That's a huge separation between him and MLB players and other athletes. That said, Punk got away with not having to sign a non-disclosure agreement, so he must be pretty confident that he had the WWE at large over a barrel. Dr. Chris Amann performs on WWE programming as a character named Dr. Chris Amann. Wouldn't that make him a public figure? It would make him a public figure. There's different levels of public figures. He would fall in a lesser category. Although, I'm pretty sure any public figure, no matter what level, has to prove actual malice. EDIT: Someone above made a pretty good post about the different kinds of public figures. I still think there's an argument to be made that he's a public figure. I think Amman certainly rides the line. It's crucial to determine that in court. Amann's lawlers will surely argue he's a private figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I just read the lawsuit info. Amann ain't winning 1 million bucks as a private figure for compensation. Good luck with that. And obviously truth is a big deal in this instance. If Punk was in fact not treated by Amann at all, then that's good for Amann. If what Punk said is true, then this is a fucking waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fando Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 welp http://www.wwe.com/inside/wwe-addresses-cm-punk-allegations-27130843 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yeah this is going to blow up in WWE's face so badly. If Amman wants to sue that's his prerogative, but this comes off like WWE can't resist their usual petty bullshit towards someone who didn't play their game (no pun intended). Why stir up that hornet nest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Back and to the left... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 welp http://www.wwe.com/inside/wwe-addresses-cm-punk-allegations-27130843 Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I have a feeling WWE will get Amman to drop it as Punk could open a MUCH bigger can of worms on backstage medical stuff and how wrestlers are treated by doctors and how WWE does or doesnt do what's best for each medical issue... I know its a personal lawsuit, but Punk could make WWE look really bad here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Unless his WWE role is a very insignificant part of his income, I can't imagine Amman didn't seek and receive WWE's blessing before proceeding on this basis or had the idea brought to him directly by WWE. No way for us to speak to the merits of anyone's claims here as those won't be only be fleshed out until this proceeds unless its settled out of court (which I have to imagine is likely). Call me crazy, but I feel bad for AJ here. I'm sure she's a a very happy newlywed but by all accounts she was a lifelong fan who fell into her dream job. Now its at best an uncomfortable work environment even if she'd still be happy performing. Plus she probably hadn't been there long enough to get burned out on the business the way Punk had after many years so its doubtful she's satisfied her desire to be part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Wouldn't his WWE role be a fairly large part of his income? I don't know if he goes to house shows, but he's at every Raw/Smackdown/NXT/PPV so you would think that doesn't leave a lot of extra time for non WWE patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Subsequently, WWE has no medical records documenting this alleged condition. To be fair, I believe this much. I mean, they didn't have records of Chris Benoit's nine billion concussions. Why bother keeping records of anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Subsequently, WWE has no medical records documenting this alleged condition. To be fair, I believe this much. I mean, they didn't have records of Chris Benoit's nine billion concussions. Why bother keeping records of anything else? Pretty much, yeah. There are so many skeletons in WWE's closet that are already out there. I cant imagine them backing Ammon on this and putting out this press release and thinking this is going to end well for them And think about all the 'boys in the back'. How do they feel about this? And yeah, there is no way AJ is going back any time soon. Nor should she. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Also, if Ammon went and did this on his own it just proves he's a dumbass, and if WWE put him up to it.....why? why would WWE want all their dirty laundry aired in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Also, if Ammon went and did this on his own it just proves he's a dumbass, and if WWE put him up to it.....why? why would WWE want all their dirty laundry aired in public. Listening to the latest WO breaking NEWZ update, Dave seems to have the impression that WWE felt they settled too quickly with Punk and now feel they have a case against him using the doctor as a proxy. Also there's the added benefit of possibly fucking with his UFC training and putting a strain on his friendship with Colt since Punk would feel an obligation to cover for him financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 I think Colt could lawyer up pretty easily. In fact, I don't think there is a case against Colt and should be dismissed outright. Some lawyer type who has a background in law should explain to me the grounds on which Colt can be sued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Without going back and listening to the podcasts, I can't imagine there's much of a case against Colt unless he strongly affirmed any of Punk's direct assertions against Amman/WWE. Otherwise, he's just a participant in a conversation and in no way liable for Punk's statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Defamation requires publication, and Colt is the publisher. Without commenting on the merits of this case in particular, that's what WWE is going for. It's the same reason the National Enquirer was liable when Carol Burnett successfully sued them for libel, even though they had a separate source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Also, if Ammon went and did this on his own it just proves he's a dumbass, and if WWE put him up to it.....why? why would WWE want all their dirty laundry aired in public. Listening to the latest WO breaking NEWZ update, Dave seems to have the impression that WWE felt they settled too quickly with Punk and now feel they have a case against him using the doctor as a proxy. Also there's the added benefit of possibly fucking with his UFC training and putting a strain on his friendship with Colt since Punk would feel an obligation to cover for him financially. It's worth stressing that Meltzer mentioned revenge as a possible motivating factor. I'm sure WWE regrets settling so quickly with Punk when he immediately badmouthed them on his friend's podcast and then signed with the UFC, but the end result probably would have been the same, as there were plenty of health concerns Punk raised that to the best of our knowledge haven't been disputed in the lawsuit, they still withheld royalty checks from him, they still fired him on his wedding day and he didn't have much time left on his contract anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Without going back and listening to the podcasts, I can't imagine there's much of a case against Colt unless he strongly affirmed any of Punk's direct assertions against Amman/WWE. Otherwise, he's just a participant in a conversation and in no way liable for Punk's statements. I listened this at work the other night, as background noise. The only time Amman gets mentioned by name is the very beginning, when he refers to him as "Dr. Amman" He just calls him "the doctor" or "doc" the rest of the time. Colt actually did try to stick up for him at one point; when Punk tells the story of the concussion during the Rumble and how Amman asked Punk what he wanted him to do, and Punk just replied that he was a worthless POS. Colt asks Punk what WAS he actually supposed to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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