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How important is being a company ace?


Grimmas

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Elliot sent me a bunch of topics to discuss for this project and I will be cherry picking some of them from time to time.

 

First up is how important being a company ace is to being the GWE? Do you need to be an ace to be a top guy? Is being an ace just a helper, because it means you are more focused?

Also, who is the best company ace? Does that make you automatic number 1 for this project?

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The way I see it is, being a really good ace is a huge huge plus, if you can be the focal point of a company and perform excellently at it then obviously you've got a really strong case.

 

Antonio Inoki like Will says is an example of an ace who doesn't perform consistently well in big matches/main events so the fact that he was an ace doesn't count for much at all.

 

Basically I wanna rank guys who just perform well and being an ace there's a high standard of wrestling required and if you can meet that standard then you're probably gonna make my list

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I guess, in terms of ranking guys for this project, I haven't thought much about if they were Aces or not.

 

There certainly will be plenty of various company aces scattered throughout my list, but it's by no means any kind of prerequisite for me in terms of placement. I'm not even close to being done with ranking my full list, but when I do finish I'm almost certain that there will be at least a few guys who were never company aces in my top 20.

 

Being a good ace can definitely help a guy's case for this project though. Cena comes to mind first for that. There's been plenty of questionable booking and groan worthy character stuff throughout his run, sure, but he's been pretty consistently great as the rock on which the WWE has built it's product on for the last 8 to 10 years. The fact that he's been in so many big matches, and almost always puts on a good or great performance in them, definitely puts a big feather in his cap for me.

 

On the opposite end of that spectrum though, is one of the biggest company aces ever, Hulk Hogan. Despite a huge, successful run on top, and the fact that he's one of the biggest pro wrestlers ever, I hate him and pretty much all of his work. No way he's making my list.

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Will's take on being the ace giving one a chance to be in more meaningful matches is spot on. At the same time I don't think it really matters to me if someone is an ace. I think the concept of the ace has been overstated to a large degree throughout the years. I mean, Shane Douglas was technically the ace for ECW for a few years, but I sure as shit never cared about what he was doing or thought his wrestling matches were worthwhile. For me it all comes back to the card mattering top to bottom, and the wrestlers and their performances mattering no matter their status in the company.

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So would there be the argument that a career midcard guy doing a bunch of good to very good TV matches could compare to a company ace that had some very good to great along with just as many worthless matches/angles? Does how well a wrestler performed in relation to their card position come into the equation at a certain point?

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A lot of my top 20 is going to be filled with aces. Lawler, Flair, Jumbo, Fujinami, Buddy Rose, Misawa, Bockwinkel, etc. Lucha is tough to call anyone an Ace but Santo always felt like an ace to me and he will definitely be top 20. Will is right that being an ace doesn't guarantee anything but the guys who were the best at it are all strong candidates for #1 overall. Really other than Hansen or Terry Funk, everyone I would consider for my top spot was the ace of a promotion.

 

Who is your (meaning everyone's) favorite ace and why?

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I don't think they necessarily have to be babyfaces. Buddy in Portland for example. I would also consider Ric Flair traveling NWA Champ an Ace. While each territory had their Ace, when Flair would come in he would be presented as the best in the buisness. But anyway, I can see not counting Bock due to Verne. That's fair.

 

But we have a bunch of other examples. Who is your favorite working Ace and why?

 

I'm trying to decide between Jumbo, Lawler, and Rose.

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I'd argue that aces have to be babyfaces and draws. In Flair's case, he was both in JCP. In Bock's, I'd argue the ace of that promotion was Verne.

 

I think in the Verne vs. Nick "Ace" case you have to break it down into eras. Verne was the man from 1960-75. Bock was the guy from 75-87. You can take away the Martel-Hansen era from Nick which ate up 2+ years in that span, but you can also take away 65-67 or so when Mad Dog was on the top of the heap, so ti kinda balances out.

 

In Bock's favour, the AWA was very much a tag-team territory and he and Stevens ruled the roost there for many years too, which has to count in his favour.

 

Verne became more of a special attraction after he didn't have the belt post-75, so he was still a draw, but moreso one that people went to see because they knew they couldn't see him all the time.

 

It's not wrong to look at both of them as Aces is what I'm saying. I don't think it hurts either in the realm of GOAT discussion to have their to-end time quantified.

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Who is your favorite working ace and why?

 

 

I'll oblige and answer your question. My favorite working ace is probably Bret Hart. It came down to aura for him, and why I like his so much as an ace. His best there ever was mentality may have made him a bit of a monster backstage but the way he carried himself at all times he came across to a young me as the epitome of what a pro wrestler should strive to be. Then he had the matches to back it up.

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I can't comment much on Verne, seeing as the majority of his time on top happened before I was around and watching wrestling. I have a few words at the end of this on him.

As far as a numeric comparison between Bock and Hogan, I can't really make one as I'd prefer to see the numbers to verify my own memories of them both at various points.

I would suggest that Hogan was a legit phenomena from his face turn forward and he drew big against everyone, and. in similar circumstances, would have done so in any company in North America in the years before his WWF run.

Put it this way: Super Sunday probably doesn't become a viable event to try and run if anyone but Hogan is in the challenger spot in that time period. You couldn't have positioned anyone else in wrestling at that time for that sort of challenge that I can think of, especially building to that program for an entire year before executing it.

 

Bock was a steadier draw over a longer period of time in the AWA. People hated Bock and Heenan so much that the idea that the latest challenger could beat him was always present and brought people into the arena. As much as the Wanz reign gets criticized, or even Jumbo winning it without any real AWA buildup, it did reinforce the idea that the title could change hands anytime and that certainly helped combined with the fan desire to see Bock and Bobby take one on the chin.

(You can't sleep on Heenan as being a big part of Bock's drawing power and I would be interested to see the numbers in terms of Bock alone after Heenan went to Georgia for an extended period vs. Bock with Heenan before and after that.)

 

The rebound factor after Verne retired with the title and Nick got it back I think speaks hugely for Nick's ability to draw in different ways, which one would have to do to stay relevant in a territory with limited bigger cities to work in.

His first challenger after being awarded the title in 1981 was Baron Von Raschke. Raschke was the hottest face in the AWA in June of 1981, in the role of Mad Dog's avenger vs. Blackwell and Studd, but as a title challenger he did not translate well. Nobody bought Baron being able to carry the title, especially a month after the title went back to Nick. Their one Minneapolis bout on 6/19 drew poorly and their series was a one-and-done. Had they drawn I believe they would have stuck with that program as per the usual AWA title programs of the time frame.

 

Kaissie had just come in and was getting over very nicely as a psycho heel (the sword angle vs. Tito on TV was intense), so matching him up vs. Nick heel vs. heel was programmed...risky to be sure, but Nick's ability to play the lesser of two evils in that scenario was good enough to draw for several months vs. Kaissie in the Twin Cities.

Not everyone could make that transition and then go right back to being the guy everyone paid to see get beaten, and Bockwinkel literally did a good enough job to re-elevate his status as Champ back to pre-Verne retirement angle status.

 

Hogan the Phenom drew great numbers. Bock was steadier and had to be programmed more creatively to maintain his levels.

As for Verne, I can tell you that his celebrity in Minnesota was enough to stay on top of his own promotion for decades and draw well enough for the AWA to be a big deal, and to stay a big deal for decades. There is no way that would have happened if he wasn't a draw and a money magnet in the little wrestling world he created.

 

Probably not exactly what you were looking for, but when I get rolling on AWA stuff I tend to babble. :)

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