Roderick Strong

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Dylan Waco]

Arguably the best wrestler in the world right now, and he's done it by having good-to-great matches against a very diverse group of people (Nakamura, Tanahashi, Galloway, Thatcher, Sabre Jr., Patron, et). I also liked his team with Aries a fair amount at the time. Beyond that he had years of being one of the most bland and stale guys on the indie landscape, had one of my least favorite Danielson ROH matches ever, and had the worst match I've ever seen on a PWG show v. Jay Lethal. He'd need about two more years at the level he's been at this year for me to even consider him at this point.

[Childs]

I'm way behind on 2015 stuff. What has Strong done to step up his game to that degree? He was a guy I actively disliked for a long time.

[SomethingSavage]

Arguably the best wrestler in the world right now, and he's done it by having good-to-great matches against a very diverse group of people (Nakamura, Tanahashi, Galloway, Thatcher, Sabre Jr., Patron, et). I also liked his team with Aries a fair amount at the time. Beyond that he had years of being one of the most bland and stale guys on the indie landscape, had one of my least favorite Danielson ROH matches ever, and had the worst match I've ever seen on a PWG show v. Jay Lethal. He'd need about two more years at the level he's been at this year for me to even consider him at this point.

 

I've been real high on Roddy for the past two years or so. I've made a few posts in the Modern Indie Wrestling thread over the last few weeks citing several reasons and instances why, but I really just wanted to ask what show that Lethal match is from.

[BillThompson]

I really like Roddy now, but for a long while he was the very definition of a decent wrestler. Won't make my list because of that, doubt he'd ever have a shot because of all those decent years.

[BigBadMick]

Arguably the best wrestler in the world right now, and he's done it by having good-to-great matches against a very diverse group of people (Nakamura, Tanahashi, Galloway, Thatcher, Sabre Jr., Patron, et). I also liked his team with Aries a fair amount at the time. Beyond that he had years of being one of the most bland and stale guys on the indie landscape, had one of my least favorite Danielson ROH matches ever, and had the worst match I've ever seen on a PWG show v. Jay Lethal. He'd need about two more years at the level he's been at this year for me to even consider him at this point.

Which Danielson match was that, Dylan?

[InYourCase]

Arguably the best wrestler in the world right now, and he's done it by having good-to-great matches against a very diverse group of people (Nakamura, Tanahashi, Galloway, Thatcher, Sabre Jr., Patron, et). I also liked his team with Aries a fair amount at the time. Beyond that he had years of being one of the most bland and stale guys on the indie landscape, had one of my least favorite Danielson ROH matches ever, and had the worst match I've ever seen on a PWG show v. Jay Lethal. He'd need about two more years at the level he's been at this year for me to even consider him at this point.

I think you're getting Roddy confused with Eddie Edwards. Lethal has worked two PWG shows, one against Eddie, the other against Willie Mack. Roddy was on those shows but he worked Trent and then tagged with Eddie on the next night and wrestled the Bucks.

 

Roddy's having a year that confirms he'll be on my list. He's had a decade of high-profile matches on the indies and always seems to deliver. Love the guy.

[Dylan Waco]

You are absolutely right that it was Edwards. There was a terrible Strong v Lethal match I saw at one point years ago I believe on a TNA show which the Edwards/Lerhal match always reminded me of.

 

As for the Danielson match I strongly disliked their hour long match from 06 the last time I watched it.

[SomethingSavage]

Yeah. Beat me to it, but that's why I asked. I knew Lethal had only made his PWG debut on an All Star Weekend, worked that weekend, and then never got brought back. Plus it was around that same point where I started to take notice of Roddy again & found him to be really hitting a new stride. So I wanted to see if maybe I missed something after that initial stretch where Roddy was "off" his game. Because I honestly haven't seen a case for it yet.

 

I kind of enjoyed the finishing stretch of Eddie/Lethal. I could certainly see the fact that he's doing strictly Black Machismo shtick for much of the match as a turn-off for some though. He does it well - extremely well, with the mannerisms, the jabs, the double sledge, the taunts, and the whole bit really - and I can't even fault him for wanting to bust that out in front of Reseda audience. In honesty, it was pretty fun to see in that atmosphere.

 

But I don't think it was all that wise to pull it out on his debut with the company. The match with Eddie could have been a solid straightforward match, I think, if they just would've went for it. Factor that in with him doing more of that style of match the next night with Willie Mack, but it just didn't carryover. I think his approach to the two matches should've been swapped, and both outings suffered for it.

 

Thought the match with Mack was mostly forgettable and lacking any real outstanding traits. The finish was... well, it was a thing. But the execution of it was so slow and contrived (and heel-ish on top of that) that it'd make you think the Lethal Injection would've been just as credible in that spot.

 

Not to derail this thread away from Strong entirely though... I would agree that the long "middle portion" of his career has felt very lackluster. It's not that he was terrible or anything, but he was really just another ROH guy for most of it. He blended in with the Edwards & Richards of the world during that whole tiresome, monotonous time period. His title reign particularly felt like a point where he was just spinning his wheels as a whole.

 

It's only been in these past few years that he truly feels like he's evolved as a performer, and I think that's key in him getting so much talk & hype lately. It's been an ongoing process for awhile, but it's reached a point where the work is clear and abundantly available enough for nearly everyone to notice it.

 

But yeah. That stretch in the middle is too long to ignore. I'm with Dylan on the thought that he'd need to produce a few more years of this high quality work to balance things more in his favor. Strong seemed exceptional enough & ripe with potential in the earlier days of ROH, then there was that VERY bland middle portion, and now he's kicked it into next gear again.

[Timbo Slice]

I liked FIP Strong as they basically let him use it as his playground since he was from Tampa and he became their main guy, and some of the ROH stuff took a bit to get used to, but in the last year, he figured something out and has blossomed. I'm really interested to see where he goes from here because there are few guys that could legitimately carry ROH right now and I think he's one of them. His best stuff to me is when he was in PWG, and him winning the title against O'Reilly last year was terrific. Really found some energy there. I don't think he'll make my list, but he's pretty underrated.

[W2BTD]

Since Eddie Edwards inadvertently got name dropped here, we might as well bring up the Dojo Bros tag team of Edwards & Strong. They had a great spotfest style match in 2CW that made my top ten matches of 2013, plus all of the great PWG stuff and some low profile matches in NOAH that nobody paid any attention to because it was post Misawa NOAH.

 

I run hot & cold on Roddy. When he's great, he's great. Great tag wrestler, both with Edwards and Austin Aries. Some really dull runs, too. He'd make a top 500 pretty easily, maybe even a 250. 100 might be pushing it.

[JRGoldman]

I remember really liking the Erick Stevens stuff in FIP and ROH. I should probably rewatch that. I think overall, Roddy has been uninteresting for long enough periods where I can't imagine giving him real consideration. Bizarrely, I think he has ended up as the best wrestler from Generation Next, which I wouldn't have though even a few years ago.

[Parties]

Definitely doesn't place in a top 100 of all-time. He's having a tremendous run right now, but even just when compared to "guys who were previously just OK but then suddenly had tremendous late career runs where they suddenly were among the best American workers of the moment", I'd still have him behind Mark Henry, Christian, DDP, Jamie Noble, Bull Pain. Plus overseas guys like Kanemoto, Tamon Honda, and like 900 luchadors.

[W2BTD]

Bull Pain?

[Dylan Waco]

I object to Bull Pain too, but for different reasons than Joe - Pain was always very good, and his peak was as a Texas Hangmen

[Parties]

I only saw much of him in that late indie IWA-MS/XCW run with Todd Morton, Chris Michaels, Lawler, etc. I didn't like him as a WCW jobber, but it's true that his earlier Memphis and PR stuff is said to be very good. Incidentally, Todd Morton is another guy I would definitely have ahead of Strong, but it's easy to play the game of "Indie heel was underrated".

[Mando]

He was in one of my favorite indy matches of the last decade vs. Erick Stevens - Last Man Standing match from FIP Dangerous Intentions '08 and I was there live for the bloodbath versus Jerry Lynn in ROH. He may slip into the last quarter of my ballot as I could see myself having him over some other indy mainstays like Styles and possibly Samoa Joe. He's been pretty damn consistent and one of the hardest working guys on the independents for a decade.

[SomethingSavage]

For those of you that are only familiar with Roderick Strong from the early ROH days or just the '05-'09 period, you really should give his recent stuff a chance. He might surprise you. The guy has been killing it in practically every performance since some point in 2013. And he's worked with a WIDE range of guys all across the country. He's essentially been doing the AJ Styles redemption tour, without the benefit of having as big a stage or as much notoriety attached.

 

If Styles' profile is elevated by way of his 2013-2015... and CERTAINLY if Roman Reigns is even being batted around as a candidate for his 2012-2015 alone... then Strong's stock will surely rise from his 2013-2015 contributions as well.

 

Again, if what you know of Roddy is only that earlier run, I'd wager that it's pretty much a guarantee that you'd value him higher after you've seen his recent work.

[WingedEagle]

Seconding Savage. Roddy in 2015 is top 2 on my Most Outstanding ballot with AJ, order TBD. Crushed it in ROH with Tanahashi & Nak as well as in multi-mans, in Evolve, as well as Europe and PWG. This is not the Roddy I remember from years back who was fine but didn't particularly stand out.

[El Dragon]

6 years since his name was brought up, but I think most would agree it was 6 years of quality, which is starting to really add up. With the Diamond Mine just forming, it feels he has potential to just keep adding quality work for years to come, and might be the last of the mid 2000’s Indy guys still adding significantly to his case. Sucks he’s been stuck with guys like Cole and Fish, but there really hasn’t been a drop off to what Roderick has brought.

[Cap]

Strong is interesting and I think his case is deceptively strong already. Around 2015 I thought he was legit one of the best in the world. I think he has been a bit stop-start since then, but I sort of suspect that has a lot to do with opportunity. He carries a lot of the load in those early UE matches in my book. His match with Riddle in 2019 is one of my favorite NXT matches of the past 3-4 years (ironically enough his 2016 match with Riddle is one of my favorites from that pre-nxt riddle period a lot of folks were high on).  I think his offense is good. He sells quite well. More than anything, when given time and the chance he has shown time and time again that he can put together a strong story in a modern setting. He reminds me a little bit of Hart in his commitment to reality in the little things, regardless of what others are doing around him. He, of course, has his indie-rific moments, but he has a long career and has aged really well in my book. I REALLY like the pieces in that Diamond Mine group, but have zero faith that they are going to get to make it something special. I hope I am wrong, I really really do. Strong is the kinda guy who could - given the chance - could really string together some genuine case building stretches, so I am just happy to see him back on my TV in a position with potential.

 

If I were making the list right now I doubt he would make it, but there is a chance he sneaks in.  I'd have to think long and hard about the earlier parts of his career. Tons of strong stuff (as I remember), but a lot of forgettable and excessive stuff for my taste.

[Clayton Jones]

For me his PWG heel run likely cements his spot on my list. Without it, as Cap said, there's still a case to be made. But that stretch where him, Hero, ZSJ, and KOR were all crushing it, Strong's title run was the catalyst for so much of that era. I am very curious to see how the Diamond Mine plays out as well but even if it flops he's been one of the most consistent performers in the history of NXT. Even his babyface work before the UE turn was excellent. I love his tag with Evans, his ROH career is a post into itself, and even stuff like the Erick Stevens feud in FIP that came up last time around is shockingly great. There's a lot of Strong worth dissecting.

[Clayton Jones]

I watched some Strong matches this time around that had some similarities but saw him thrive in a variety of roles.

Roderick Strong (c) VS PAC - ROH FIP Championship 3/3/2007

Will Ospreay VS Roderick Strong - Southside Wrestling 7/18/2015

These matches both saw Roddy going overseas and taking on the local bland as porridge up and coming high flyer. He is a tremendous base, one of the best of his generation, and he makes both of these current stars look like a million bucks at points in their career when I saw very little in them. Strong's growth over these 8 years is impressive too, with a confidence in the Ospreay match to totally take the crowd on a ride he hadn't mastered back in his earlier ROH days. He also gets more out of less VS Ospreay but the PAC match is hardly overkill and has one hell of Fuck You finish.

Dojo Bros VS Biff Busick/Drew Gulak - Beyond Wrestling 9/15/2013

Roderick Strong (c) VS Keith Lee VS Donovan Dijakovic - NXT North American Championship 10/23/2019

Both of these had Strong as a featured star while getting over a feud he wasn't the focus of. He was great in both, although once again you can see a lot of growth in those 6 years. In the Beyond tag he's a dream partner coming to aid his Dojo Bro against his arch rival Biff Busick (this Eddie/Biff feud is a really wonderful piece of booking). In the NXT title defense he has to look like a strong Champion literally wedged between two big big bad dudes trying to hash out their own rivalry. In both matches he carries himself with great presence while still building intrigue for the guys around him. His tag work has been well documented although his team with Edwards is probably the least covered and had a surprising amount of good output. The tag is more ambitious than the 3 way, it does lose its way a bit by the end, but is impressingly character driven and layered for a big indie tag. The NXT match is a breath of fresh air as 3 ways suck, WWE 3 ways suck even worse, and it'd be easy for Strong to look like an afterthought or to overcompensate. Instead as he usually does he strikes a nice balance and makes his opponents look great while keeping himself over big.

GWE viewing has been a lot of fun so far but I particularly enjoyed Strong's work in all four of these matches.

[Tetsujin]

Gotta say he was the last wrestler that made me enjoy ROH back in 2015 against Jay Lethal. His NXT stuff has obviously been a total blast. Excellent tag and midcard worker, and he improved a lot as a heel compared to his pre-WWE career. The Danielson match is amazing, but I need to watch much more of his indy stuff to see if it holds up, I'm specially interested in his PWG and ROH work, but any hidden gem like some of the matches Clayton spoke about will be well received as well.

[Reel]

His run in Evolve around 2015-2016 is maybe his best run. Great stuff with Drew that leads to a feud in maybe the most indie looking cage of all time, an all-time with Zack Sabre at Evolve 45, and some strong stuff with Thatcher. I remember thinking he was the maybe the best wrestler in the world around that time.