Zack Sabre Jr.

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Jetlag]

Can't stand this dude at all. Awful faux WoS/shootstyle spots, sub-WWE Diva strikes, no sense of menace or legitimacy at all from this toothpick. Only looks good when up against a total superworker.

[Timbo Slice]

I get he's supposedly on a hot streak right now, but he had all those years in NOAH and didn't really look good at all. He still doesn't. Not even close on my ballot.

[Grimmas]

I really have an issue with anyone currently in their prime or before it. I'm going to have a hard time voting for anybody that wrestled this year. I just feel we might need some more time on certain guys to get a better picture.

 

There will be some like Cena, Bryan, Negro Casas, but they are past their prime. The only person currently in their prime that may make my list is Cesaro.

[stomperspc]

I think he is pretty good right now when placed in the right environment. I agree with the quality of his strikes (his uppercuts are terrible). In NOAH and a lot of times when working European promotions , he seems compelled to strike for some reason. He would be much better off trying to be the “British style guy” (even if his style is a facsimile of WOS style) then a hybrid Japanese style junior. Having said that, when he sticks to the to the British-influenced chain wrestling stuff, works submissions, and largely stays on the mat he is good. I have liked him in EVOLVE this year as much as anyone other than T.J. Perkins.

 

He was not very good or memorable in NOAH for a long time (I’m not sure he is even now) and will be way out of my top 100, but I think he’s a pretty good wrestler right now when he sticks to the things he is best at.

[NotJayTabb]

ZSJ was my nomination, and he's a guy who might get the final spot on my list, mainly for personal reasons. For the last two years in a row, he's been in my favourite match I've seen live that year, and in fact his match with Pete Dunne last January was actually the best match I've been present for. It really was a case of every move, every little detail meaning something and, whilst I think Pete is great, this was very much a Sabre-led match. Even though he's really blossomed in the past three years, he was still good early on in his career - the LDRS were a really good tag team, the Danielson match in 08 was really fun and he's the one name guaranteed to make me want to see a card nowadays. I'm sure he wont be appearing on any other lists, but he's probably going to appear on mine.

[InYourCase]

Very good wrestler but not enough volume to make my list. Could make the cut 10 years from now.

[BillThompson]

Of the current crop of great indie wrestlers he's below guys like Thatcher, Gulak, Busick, Perkins, Hero, Kong, and a few others. Of all those guys really only Hero and Thatcher have a shot of making my list. The problem with Sabre is that while he's been pretty great in 2014-15, he was fairly mediocre in the years previous. He had the bad habit of working matches so that they felt like exhibitions as opposed to actual wrestling contests. That resulted in a lot of bad and overly choreographed matches, but an even larger number of decent but disappointing affairs and always due to the lackluster effort from Sabre.

[concrete1992]

As a positive post, I can totally see Sabre being a guy who could make a ballot based on a more personal pick. Not sure how many people have been as good and somewhat consistently present than ZSJ over in the UK.

[Jetlag]

As a positive post, I can totally see Sabre being a guy who could make a ballot based on a more personal pick. Not sure how many people have been as good and somewhat consistently present than ZSJ over in the UK.

 

How about a dozen or so WoS workers?

[concrete1992]

 

As a positive post, I can totally see Sabre being a guy who could make a ballot based on a more personal pick. Not sure how many people have been as good and somewhat consistently present than ZSJ over in the UK.

 

How about a dozen or so WoS workers?

 

Consistently present RIGHT NOW. I mean, you could put James Mason or a Dean Allmark on the list but if you value high peaks or the style ZSJ is bringing, a modern take on some older stuff, there you go.

 

EDIT: Or replace "RIGHT NOW" with "within the past 5-10 years".

[Timbo Slice]

Thatcher does everything that Zack Sabre does way better. Flashy doesn't always mean better.

[Childs]

I watched BOLA this week and also Sabre's PWG match with Strong from earlier in the year. The Strong match was terrific, but I got the sense Roddy was the one who brought the structure to it, with Sabre providing lots of spirit and bursts of cool offense. His BOLA stuff was more hit and miss. In his long match against Marty Scurll, I had no idea what they were going for, and that's a feeling I often get from Sabre's matches.

 

It's interesting, the PWG commentators consistently push him as the best technician in the world, and I don't see that. He seems neither crisp (always difficult when you're a tall, lanky guy) nor fluid to me, if that makes any sense. He still comes off coltish--a guy with a big bag of tools who's throwing shit against the wall as he casts about for an identity. That's not necessarily bad; I just don't see this polished package they're touting.

 

I don't want to be too negative. As I said, I liked the Strong match a lot and have also dug several of his Evolve matches this year. There's an excellent wrestler in there, and I'm rooting for him. He just needs to keep streamlining.

[pol]

I haven't seen that much of him, but from what I have seen, I think he has gotten much better lately at working in his WoS-inspired stuff in a way that seems organic and less like a cutesy tribute act. Would be interested to know if anyone else feels the same or if I'm just imagining it.

 

I find his team with Ogawa to be one of the more entertaining junior tag teams of the moment, although that's not exactly a super high bar to clear.

[BillThompson]

You're not just imagining it, I've said the same thing for the past year or so. I still think Sabre is well below the likes of Thatcher, Gulak, and Gresham when it comes to the new wave of grappling based guys. But, he's up there now as I feel his work finally has more focus and tightness to it and he doesn't do shit just to do it as often anymore.

[InYourCase]

ZSJ certainly comes across as more of a "technical wizard" in NOAH than he does in PWG or EVOLVE. I love his work in all three companies, but his NOAH work is my favorite. He's sneaky great on these undercards. He's getting over with the crowds and I hope one day, if he's not with WWE, he can fulfil a prominant role in the NOAH juniors division.

 

I stand by what I said about ZSJ in July. He's very good, if not great, but doesn't have the volume to make my list.

[JRGoldman]

This is going to come across as more insulting than I want it to, but I think voting for ZSJ would be like putting a Grateful Dead cover band on a Greatest Band Ever ballot. Sure, he brings his own flair to what he does, but he is seemingly so indebted to a style and a few workers in particular that I always feel like his matches are too referential to stand on their own.

[GOTNW]

Love Zack, I jumped on his bandwagon while he was working undercard matches in NOAH and I'm glad he's gained such a big following, I don't think he's has enough hyped matches over a long enough period of time that were great enough for me to rank him right now but if we redo this in 5/10 years he should make my list unless something terrible happens.

[WingedEagle]

Every single one of his matches feels like I'm watching a 15 year old kid fight an adult. Its not fair, its not right but it is exactly what I think when watching them. There's little basis to justify him reading a list of the greatest professional wrestlers of all time, much less placing on one, given that. I'm someone who couldn't care less about whether a strike looks like a shoot, but his offense is more reminiscent of our middle school Gilbert & Sullivan renditions than rasslin.

[Jaivl]

Yeah, he's truly terrible.

[Ma Stump Puller]

I definitely think this thread needs a update. At the time this was posted, Zack was still in his Indie-riffic tendencies, submission spamming, incredibly goofy matchups and a tendency to just sorta stick to a one-note style that while he was definitely fairly solid at, he just kinda....didn't do a lot that felt rational, if that makes any sense. Yes, his NOAH work was definitely a low spot for him for the most part outside of some fairly good Ogawa tags (and I side that more with Ogawa being, well, really solid than anything else) but for what it's worth, I think he's stepped up a lot since then. He's proven he can be a shit-eating heel and a surprisingly effective tweener in the Tekkers, had some incredible G1 performances, as well as a very underrated indie run of tip-top matches in the mid 2010's along with a fun stint in EVOLVE. Despite how objectively trash the NJPW tag team scene is at the moment, he's been a consistent high spot with whomever is against him, even getting the dreadful SANADA to something presentable.

There's a huge case for him being a top 100 at the moment, let alone if he keeps his level of quality up for a few more years afterwards. 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah his NJPW run has made him amazing. He always brings so much fresh air to the New Japan formula, both in singles and tags, against elite level workers like Tana, Naito, Ibushi and Ishii, but also carrying less talented workers like SANADA, EVIL, Fale or YOSHI HASHI. Also, his promos are hilarious.