JvK reviews pimped matches from late 90s-10s

[InYourCase]

I actually think the entire Kobashi GHC run is a worthwhile watch if you're trying to figure out where he lands historically. He worked a much more diverse group of opponents than he did in All Japan.

It's hands down the best title reign ever. I'm sure there's a Flair reign that compares to it, and I look at Mochizuki's 2011 run in a similar light, but nothing touches Kobashi from 2003-2005. Misawa, Honda, Bison, Owaga, Nagata, Rikio,, Akiyama, Takayama, Taue, ~MIKE AWESOME~, and MiSu, among others. There's nothing like it.

 

I have the Misawa win, and both the Akiyama and Takayama matches at five stars.

 

Then if you go a little past his loss to Rikio, he has an insane stretch with Sasaki and Tenryu. I'm repeating information everyone already knows, but i highly doubt there's a better three year stretch than Kobashi from 2003-2005.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Kobashi's GHC is what makes or breaks him. If you don't like it you tend to lowball Kobashi. I love it and to me it is what cemented him number one over Flair. Not only does he have transcendent underdog babyface charisma we see become fully realized in amazing seizing of torch match against Misawa, the Destruction of Rat Boy and the Battle of Bulls in Takayama. For a sport that is scripted, very few careers ever go according to script but you couldn't have written a better career for Kobashi. You get to grow up with Kobashi and see his development all along unlike any other wrestler. It is that fullness and attachment that fosters through charisma that sets him a part as the greatest.

[WingedEagle]

Kobashi's GHC is what makes or breaks him. If you don't like it you tend to lowball Kobashi. I love it and to me it is what cemented him number one over Flair. Not only does he have transcendent underdog babyface charisma we see become fully realized in amazing seizing of torch match against Misawa, the Destruction of Rat Boy and the Battle of Bulls in Takayama. For a sport that is scripted, very few careers ever go according to script but you couldn't have written a better career for Kobashi. You get to grow up with Kobashi and see his development all along unlike any other wrestler. It is that fullness and attachment that fosters through charisma that sets him a part as the greatest.

 

This is EXACTLY the point! Most of the classics come before this time with the four corners, as you're only talking 3/1/03 as part of the GHC reign. But the diversity of opponents and range of performances during this run and then even afterwards, from the Tenryu & Sasaki tags to the return tag in '07, his post-prime run is what will swing how you look at his overall career.

 

Much like Case, I've got the Misawa, Takayama and Akiyama matches as classics, and that's without even touching the Suzuki, Sasaki, Ogawa, KENTA and other singles matches making up this run. The comparison with Flair in '85-86 is interesting, although I'm not sure terribly fair to either because of where they were in their respective careers.

[JerryvonKramer]

Personally I can't wait to watch it.

 

I think I ranked Kobashi #5 for GWE based very heavily on AJPW work (I did watch some NOAH stuff here and there), so if I end up loving this whole run he may realistically have a shot at leap-frogging Misawa, Jumbo and maybe even Funk and Flair in my overall standings. Not saying he will, but it is possible. The advantage he has over virtually everyone is, as I've said, being the most talented guy ever to step in the ring.

[InYourCase]

Personally I can't wait to watch it.

 

I think I ranked Kobashi #5 for GWE based very heavily on AJPW work (I did watch some NOAH stuff here and there), so if I end up loving this whole run he may realistically have a shot at leap-frogging Misawa, Jumbo and maybe even Funk and Flair in my overall standings. Not saying he will, but it is possible. The advantage he has over virtually everyone is, as I've said, being the most talented guy ever to step in the ring.

I *think* you'll be all over his GHC run. It's heavy offense that you like, I'm just afraid you might think it's excess. If you get through it and you dig it, I think you'll have him lumped with Flair. The run is that good.

[Robert S]

Matt go back a few pages, people provided some good lists and they are the ones I'll be going off.

 

In time, I intend on watching all of them and in order. Next one is Misawa vs Kobashi from 03.

If that's the case (if I did not miss anything) you skipped the 12/23/00 Kobashi vs. Akiyama match which was actually the heavily hyped match, not the one from August.

[JerryvonKramer]

That's because I did review it earlier in the thread ... way back. See here:

 

Kenta Kobashi vs. Takao Omori (4/15/00)

 

I thought this was an awesome match with Omori targeting the leg with some pretty focused work early and then Kobashi letting him have a shit load of the bombs in his arsenal. The final lariat takes his head off. Just super duper fun and such a breezy watch.

 

****

 

Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (12/23/00)

 

The diving knee from the top rope onto Kobashi's arm onto the railing is an awesome awesome spot. Half Nelson suplex on the ramp onto Akiyama's head is also an awesome spot. However, the match is a good twenty minutes too long. And its basically twenty minutes of excessiveness. Kobashi has a massive shiner by the end though, and that visual is pretty awesome.

 

If this was like even 15 minutes shorter it would be the best spotfest of all time. As it is, it's just got too much bloat. Seems like 2000 AJPW gorges itself until it throws up.

 

****

 

Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (5/26/00)

 

It's remarkable how grizzled Kobashi looks by 2000. Takayama has somewhat of a fish face.

 

This is another really great match. More of your classic babyface getting beat down and then coming back with fire / fighting spirit. And by God Kobashi's comeback here might be my favourite one ever, even over Lawler vs. Bock in 10/25/82. The backfists were some real Guy from Final Fight shit. Incredibly hot finishing stretch.

 

****1/2

I realise me dropping the big 5 on 6/8/00 puts me in a minority.

[Luchaundead]

Nigel v KENTA is to me an all time story telling match and probably my favorite Nigel title defense. With that said everything you said about the match is correct it's just a case of being in the moment and enjoying the back story even more than the match.

[JerryvonKramer]

Posting these in here, because I'm trying to avoid any and all reviews.

 

Kushida vs. Hiromu Takahashi (1/4/17)

 

Two ridiculous high spots out of the gate. I have never been a fan of high flying style and that's one of the reasons why. Then they hit the mat. I've also never been much of a fan of NJ juniors and this is one of the reasons why.

 

Some bigger bombs now. Swank release German suplex in there. A lot of this stuff looks cool but there is no impact to anything. I mean how can we care about this senton when he did that huge somersault thing right out of the gate?

 

I've very much struggled to follow the structure of this match.

 

Arm hold applied from the dive from the top to the outside was pretty impressive.

 

They've gone into hard kick mode now. Submission sequence. Victory roll gets two.

 

I really could not get into this match at all. Just left me utterly cold. All flash and bluster. I did like some of the wow spots, and appreciated the intensity in the work, but I was never going to like something like this. Just no psychology there. Also Takahashi sauntering off with the belt with a smirk on his face totally buries the idea of this massive war they were meant to have just had. Sorry kids, not for me this one.

 

I did like seeing Liger sitting there.

 

**

 

My Mrs is about to come back, will finish up the card later on.

[Coffey]

My Mrs is about to come back, will finish up the card later on.

 

I can not wait until you finally get to review Okada/Omega.

 

Just from reading what you said about the KUSHIDA match, I know it's going to be glorious.

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Hirooki Goto vs. Katsuyori Shibata (1/4/17)

 

Chono sitting at ringside (contender for my least fave wrestler ever).

 

As this match started my girlfriend who was meant to have just gone to bed came in, sat down, and then ended up staying for the whole match. She'd never seen a wrestling match before so started out with all the usual "it's fake isn't it" talk, but that soon died down and she ended up getting really into the match and rooting for Goto. Her exact comment at one point was "the one in the black has been a real shit, I want the other one to come back and get him". By the end she was marking out for near falls. This was a very interesting experience in itself for me, because it's the first time I'd watched a match with a non-fan for years and years.

 

I thought this was a really excellent and fucking brutal match. I loved the sick arm section at the start with Shibata ramping up violence. He was working so stiff and sick, the level of roughness was breathtaking at times.

 

The hope spots from Goto were well timed, and each time Shibata took back control he ramped up the level of violence and dickishness some more. There was also a good level of cock-measuring stuff going on from him, I thought his character work was very effective.

 

Goto down his comeback stretch pulled out a number of pretty incredible spots I've never seen before which generally involved Shibata's neck landing on his knee. Some of those spots were "holy shit" incredible in my book.

 

This match had everything really, sound psychology, great storytelling, really next-level brutality, innovative (groundbreaking?) spots, and a gradual escalation of violence (it boils over when Shibata nails the ref). As good a match as I've ever seen in an NJPW ring. And it won over a non-fan in front of my eyes, which is something.

 

*****

[Dylan Waco]

I've seen lots of praise from people I wouldn't expect to see praise from for that Goto v. Shibata match. Maybe I've just been overexposed to that style, but live I thought it was a goodish match within a style that I've largely passed carrying about. They definitely played around with the no selling tropes a bit more than normal here as well, but I didn't see anything groundbreaking or uniquely impressive about the performance from either guy. It did work huge for the crowd and I thought Goto winning was a great moment and the right move. I've flirted with star ratings more in the last year than at anytime in over a decade, but this is the kind of match that makes them ultimately impossible for me as I can grant that it was effective, had big moments, and the impact was there, but none of the other things I look for in a match were readily present.

[Grimmas]

Getting really excited for Parv to drop 6 stars on Omega-Okada.

[JerryvonKramer]

Tetsuya Naito vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (1/4/17)

 

A lot of hair here. So much hair. Girl's hair. If this was a video game you'd have to go to the girl's hair bit on the "make a warrior" to create these guys.

 

For a Japanese chap Naito is remarkable for being such an out and out heel, the spitting was disgusting and an effective way to generate heat ... not just for the crowd but with me. First two thirds of the match is really good with the story being leg vs. leg. That culminates into a kick fest to the legs and everything up to that point in the match is very solid, logically worked, decent character stuff from Naito. The big splash from the top into the knees from Tanahashi was a pretty sick spot. Right onto the knees.

 

What I don't get is how the story didn't at all play into the finish. The match is won with a reverse tornado DDT thing. It's just weird they built all of that and it had nothing to do with the finish. This is solid work here, but I couldn't really get invested in Tanahashi as the face / ace, he just seemed to be there. Maybe this match was all about building Naito, but I wanted to see more from the hero really. Good without being great in my book.

 

****

[JerryvonKramer]

Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (1/4/17)

 

Okada takes a leaf out of the Richard O'Brien playbook to start and makes it rain gold leaves. "Start the fans please!"

 

There's no nice way to say this so I'm just going to come right out and say it: these workers just aren't good enough to have the match they were trying to have. They just aren't. There is a vague story running through the first half of Omega targeting the core area of the kidneys / lower back. But it all seems like table dressing for what they are really going for, which is the holy shit dazzle. And we did get some:

 

- dive from top over the guard rails!

- double stomp from top onto table

- super reverse butterfly suplex (I don't even understand how this was done)

- neckbreaker onto the knee (sick)

 

But between these moments these guys don't seem to know what to do to fill the time, it's just spot after spot, and after a while you start to wonder why on earth they are going to random hurricanranas or obvious setup charge the corner spots. It's because they don't know how to fill the time any other way.

 

One of jdw's standard criticisms of Ric Flair is that in his longer matches he has *stuff to do*. But in a way, that criticism is taking for granted the fact that Ric is a world-class wrestler who just knows how to fill that time. It takes someone of that level to go as long as this and keep a match interesting. I honestly don't think either of these guys are on the level of a Terry Taylor, let alone a Ric Flair or a Steamboat or a Jumbo or Funk or Bockwinkel. They just don't seem to have the ring savvy or the gravitas required to pull this off.

 

I mean god, try a stomp, a headlock, a bodyslam, a basic transitional move. Not every single damn thing has to be a tornado DDT or whatever the fuck. I just don't get it. Spots for just no rhyme or reason. It leads to a situation in which it seldom feels like anyone has any real control in the match. So much running, but why?

 

Kenny Omega is literally terrible in parts of this match. They've been going forty + minutes and he just can't get over the war or the struggle or the gravity of anything .... he's so ... fake. I hate to use the word but what else is there? He's worse than Shawn Michaels, he's a guy who has GROWN UP wanting to be Shawn Michaels. It's almost unbearable.

 

I did not enjoy this. Yes, some spots were very cool, but this isn't a classic not by a long shot. It wouldn't make a top 500 of mine. Why? Spotty, lack of coherent storytelling, Okada was completely anonymous and characterless (I suppose in the grand tradition of Chono), and Omega looked like a generic HBK-knock-off indy worker inexplicably elevated to headline the Tokyo Dome. Still, the knees looked good and I'm still wondering how you do a reverse butterfly suplex off the top.

 

***3/4

[Superstar Sleeze]

Parv (& others who liked Goto/Shibata) check out Goto vs Shibata from 6/22/13. A total man's man match!

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm thinking about the rating on the main and wondering if it deserves less.

 

I am fairly rare I guess in hating HBK vs Taker, both matches, and I can't remember the rating I gave them but it's less than 3.75.

 

Will have a think, but since Omega is an ersatz HBK and this felt like a homage to those matches complete with tombstone reversals, I'm thinking on principle it should be lower. Searching this thread now to see if I've reviewed either of those matches in the past couple of years.

[JKWebb]

These reviews make me want to fire this up again. I'm definitely going to check out Shibata/Goto 6/22/13, I haven't seen that.

[Coffey]

I can't wait until JvK and Meltz get into it 'cause Meltz thinks he's just being contrarian by not giving it six stars! This has been a great couple of days of wrestling banter.

[Coffey]

I'm still wondering how you do a reverse butterfly suplex off the top.

 

...for a 2-count.

[JKWebb]

I would have the HBK/Taker matches higher personally. I remember being in a room full of people watching the first one , and like your gf experience they fell completely silent and became totally sucked in. For that reason, I always held that match in a higher regard than some folks. For that style of match, I think I agree with your sentiments that Omega was trying to pull that off but didn't reach that level. I know you don't enjoy the style no matter the level, but I think HBK & Taker achieved a better match in that style.

[JerryvonKramer]

I seem to recall that WM25 is better than WM26.

 

Looking around and I don't think I've watched them since they happened. If I have I didn't review them.

[shoe]

The Dragon Suplex off the top should be a finish on a big show. Next year what are you going to do ? Go through a table? With that said I enjoyed the match . It could have been much shorter though.

[pol]

There's a funny thing in current NJPW where no matter what crazy shit you see in a match, a guy is always going to win in the middle with their standard finish.

[World's Worst Man]

That was my first thought after the match - where do you go from here? But I completely agree with JvK - use some smaller god damn spots to fill the time. A nice vertical suplex works just fine.