Johnny Sorrow Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 The new Table for 3 with Dolph, Ryback, and Bryan is hilarious. It's supposed to be them talking about the IC title but it ends up just being three friends busting balls, especially Ryback's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 If WWE Films ever made a Daniel Bryan and Ryback buddy comedy, they might actually turn a profit for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Also don't look now, but the latest batch of original programs on the Network (Table for 3, Legends with JBL, even the SuperStar Ink show) have all been pretty good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 All of this bullshit about football is just an excuse WWE uses, and I'm surprised any of you would buy into it. When WWE's ratings were at record highs during the Attitude Era, did football make a difference? Not really. The product was red hot then (even if many aspects of it can be criticized in retrospect or didn't age well), and it's stale now. Period. Â It didn't matter then, but that was an exceptional period and I'm not sure comparing a more "normal" business period to that is entirely fair. Â Even outside of WWE, whether there's anything to it or not, fall season not being a good time of year for wrestling has been a talking point for a long time. We'd have to look into it more to see if there's anything to it. Â And I do agree for the record that if the Creative was better, they'd have more viewers, regardless of the time of year. But I also think it's going to be harder at this time of year to pull people in even if they are doing lots of good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 There really isn't much they can do. The NFL is red hot and they got games on all three days that the WWE would have big shows (Sundays, Mondays and Thursdays). The best WWE need to do is readjust their mindset that it isn't about ratings anymore but whether they are still making money in other ways that matters. Â I disagree with this strongly. There are tons of people on this very board who have given up on RAW and we are the hardcore fans. It isn't that they should cater to us but that they don't even throw us a bone in thier lowest times. The product is stale and needs to be completely reinvented. Sadly, reinventing a wrestling show usually means Vince Russo style crash TV and hotshot booking. Â Â Â So if they are still going to do HHH vs Seth at some point, what good will it do when Seth has been booked as a bigger geek as champ than Rey was? Genuinely would not be surprised if Triple H beats Seth for the WWE Title around Royal Rumble time, so that Triple H Vs. The Rock (if it happens) will be for the title at Wrestlemania. I hope not. The Rock should be beating Triple H at Wrestlemania but he won't if the belt is on the line because he probably won't be there the following Monday. Or the special event after that. That's not even to get into the fact Triple H should not be wrestling anybody for any stakes other than to write his character off. Â Â I agree with this in general but it isn't reality. The best thing is to convince them to show ass as heels and let the full time talent actually get over on the authority. This may be harder than wishing them to actually go away. Â All of this bullshit about football is just an excuse WWE uses, and I'm surprised any of you would buy into it. When WWE's ratings were at record highs during the Attitude Era, did football make a difference? Not really. The product was red hot then (even if many aspects of it can be criticized in retrospect or didn't age well), and it's stale now. Period. Â Also, I think I'm the only one who likes the Kane-Rollins feud. It's the rare storyline they've actually bothered to build up - and for months on end too - and it's not even the main event anyway, so who cares? Â Agreed about football being a bullshit excuse. Also, if the numbers are going to be down anyway, this would be a great time to take chances and push new guys or do a cutting edge storyline. Â With Rollins-Kane, it doesn't matter if the build is good if nobody is looking forward to the payoff. Nobody actually wants to see the match. The same thing happened with Bryan-Kane. I think Johnny sorrow was the only one who actually wanted to watch that match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 So Tommaso Ciampa was on both NXT and TNA tonight. I know both were taped some time ago, but I have to wonder if that bites him in the ass as far as possibly getting a full time deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 1. I am not making a football excuse. I am saying the WWE and/or people need to stop comparing the WWE's ratings to the NFL because they are never going to be close. The NFL is way ahead of the WWE because it is a sport that is watched by far many more people than wrestling can honestly ever hope to get. I am saying they need to start changing their goalposts to something else than "Well MNF kicked our ass. We gotta get Brock on the show. That'll fix it." No. What they need to do is start figuring out how to change not just for the fall but for the spring when football isn't around. For the summer when football isn't around. Then if you have done well, you will have people still watching in the fall. It needs to have a sweeping change within the WWE. Trying to compete with the NFL now only gets them short term gains that eventually turns into long term losses and those short term gains won't even matter to begin with. Â 2. I agree the issue is that the product is uber stale and this is why they need to stop worrying about football and start worrying about themselves. Â 3. I don't care if Triple H is actually off tv or not. I am simply saying Triple H should never be wrestling for anything if not for his departure. The only times Triple H should wrestle are situations like the Shield where he just wrestles to put over his charges as the new top dogs or Daniel Bryan where the only stake is sending Daniel Bryan into the main event to put him over. If Triple H has to wrestle Rollins it should never involve the WWE title. It should just be that he wants to put Rollins in his place vs Rollins wanting to prove that he can be and is the man. Nothing more is required. Triple H is at the point of his career he is actually comfortable as the new Vince. He should be choosing his matches rather judiciously and it needs to carry some significance all in itself without needing to tie in any championships in the equation. I know Vince wrestled for belts a few times but Triple H doesn't need that shot of legitimacy in the promotion of his matches. He is already a "legend". Descending down from his throne in the WWE heavens to strap on his pads and don his tights should be an event in itself even if we don't care to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Â There really isn't much they can do. The NFL is red hot and they got games on all three days that the WWE would have big shows (Sundays, Mondays and Thursdays). The best WWE need to do is readjust their mindset that it isn't about ratings anymore but whether they are still making money in other ways that matters. I disagree with this strongly. There are tons of people on this very board who have given up on RAW and we are the hardcore fans. It isn't that they should cater to us but that they don't even throw us a bone in thier lowest times. The product is stale and needs to be completely reinvented. Sadly, reinventing a wrestling show usually means Vince Russo style crash TV and hotshot booking. Â Â So if they are still going to do HHH vs Seth at some point, what good will it do when Seth has been booked as a bigger geek as champ than Rey was? Genuinely would not be surprised if Triple H beats Seth for the WWE Title around Royal Rumble time, so that Triple H Vs. The Rock (if it happens) will be for the title at Wrestlemania. I hope not. The Rock should be beating Triple H at Wrestlemania but he won't if the belt is on the line because he probably won't be there the following Monday. Or the special event after that. That's not even to get into the fact Triple H should not be wrestling anybody for any stakes other than to write his character off. I agree with this in general but it isn't reality. The best thing is to convince them to show ass as heels and let the full time talent actually get over on the authority. This may be harder than wishing them to actually go away. All of this bullshit about football is just an excuse WWE uses, and I'm surprised any of you would buy into it. When WWE's ratings were at record highs during the Attitude Era, did football make a difference? Not really. The product was red hot then (even if many aspects of it can be criticized in retrospect or didn't age well), and it's stale now. Period. Â Also, I think I'm the only one who likes the Kane-Rollins feud. It's the rare storyline they've actually bothered to build up - and for months on end too - and it's not even the main event anyway, so who cares? Agreed about football being a bullshit excuse. Also, if the numbers are going to be down anyway, this would be a great time to take chances and push new guys or do a cutting edge storyline. Â With Rollins-Kane, it doesn't matter if the build is good if nobody is looking forward to the payoff. Nobody actually wants to see the match. The same thing happened with Bryan-Kane. I think Johnny sorrow was the only one who actually wanted to watch that match. That's Sorrow with a capital "S", Dum Dum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 It didn't matter then, but that was an exceptional period and I'm not sure comparing a more "normal" business period to that is entirely fair. Â Even outside of WWE, whether there's anything to it or not, fall season not being a good time of year for wrestling has been a talking point for a long time. We'd have to look into it more to see if there's anything to it. Â And I do agree for the record that if the Creative was better, they'd have more viewers, regardless of the time of year. But I also think it's going to be harder at this time of year to pull people in even if they are doing lots of good stuff. Â Yeah, Creative generally sucks during this Fall period. It has for years, and it's a known thing that it has. I find that inexcusable. Back in the Attitude Era, there was no "cooling off period" like there is now - there was no mentality that "it gets hotter when WrestleMania season approaches." For better or worse, Russo tried to keep things moving and hot every week. You can criticize a lot of what he did, but he was never complacent. We can't say the same for the WWE today. Â Agreed about football being a bullshit excuse. Also, if the numbers are going to be down anyway, this would be a great time to take chances and push new guys or do a cutting edge storyline. Â With Rollins-Kane, it doesn't matter if the build is good if nobody is looking forward to the payoff. Nobody actually wants to see the match. The same thing happened with Bryan-Kane. I think Johnny sorrow was the only one who actually wanted to watch that match. Â Yes and no. I am not really excited about the match, but I kind of want to see it because at least it's the rare example of a long-term story with a payoff of some sort. Why they're putting Kane in that spot instead of a younger talent who could benefit is another story entirely. Then again, they probably look at Seth as that younger talent benefiting from Kane's presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 NXT was pretty good last night. Especially as a go-home show for their PPV next week. My one complaint is that after Emma/Dana watched the Asuka video & slowly realized that Dana was in trouble, they should not have shown us the same video just a few minutes later. It killed the mystique, in my opinion. It felt like just leaving it to our imaginations would have been stronger. Instead, it was just Asuka kicking a heavy bag. I also like Tyler Breeze changing his finish. I never bought the Beauty Shot as a Flash KO move and too many people nowadays use a Superkick, so the switch to the Unprettier makes sense. Not like Christian is using it anymore. Â I really hope that the finals of the Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic is The Mechanics Vs. Jordan/Gable. I don't want to see Joe/Finn make the finals. They're just boring. Honestly, Samoe Joe has been awful in NXT. He looks like crap, he's wrestling like he's stuck in molasses... I don't think he has any of the things left that made him unique or stand out previous in ROH. He's older, slower & fatter. I don't even buy him as an ass-kicker anymore. Loved him in ROH in 2005. Not so much in NXT in 2015. Â I'm exciting for next Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I've been watching 1998 Raws, and it's really amazing the difference between Vince and HHH as heel authority figures. I couldn't imagine Hunter doing even 1/8th the things Vince did to get Austin over, and it really says a lot of why WWE is in the creative mess they are in. I know it's cliche to complain about Hunter and Steph cutting everyone's balls off, but it's more than that. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Bad guys on Raw, but then they show videos of them visiting sick kids. Then Hunter has to be Dad on NXT. And Steph has to be Mom to the divas division. Then they want to be the all powerful bad guys thwarting all that is good, all while reminding us the current world champ can't lace Hunter's boots. It was really stunning to be reminded of how well Vince played the role of evil owner, while still letting the good guy get over on him at every turn. Can you imagine a babyface today getting the best of HHH to the point he pisses his pants on TV? Of course not. Â Amazing how not stomping any potential babyface flat led to creating a group of stars that led them to their biggest boom period ever. Are they that much in the bubble/up their own asses that they can't see the reason their product is so stale is that they haven't let anyone get above midcard status since Cena? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 While you are right in just about everything, it needs to be pointed out there is one key difference between Vince and Triple H that probably plays into their mindset of booking the two characters- Vince was never a wrestler and Triple H is espoused to be one of their greatest wrestlers ever. It doesn't make sense for Triple H to piss his pants when he once got dropped in a vehicle from high above and returned a week later to get his revenge. Basically Triple H is probably everything Vince has always wished his own character to be but knew it wasn't possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Basically Triple H is probably everything Vince has always wished his own character to be but knew it wasn't possible. Nope, calling bullshit on this. Vince clearly understood his role was to get the babyfaces over at his expense I do not at all believe he had some secret wish to book himself as God mode HHH but just couldn't get away with it. Â Especially when Vince's philosophy has always been that the heels make the babyface look strong and his foundation has always been built on a strong babyface Ace of the company while HHH grew up idolizing Harley Race and Ric Flair the traveling heel champ who by hook or crook always retains his belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I get that, but Hunter can't seem to get past the wrestler mentality of never wanting to look bad for fear of losing their spot. He was so good at playing politics (the "game", if you weeeeeell) that he can't seem to turn the switch off. If he's going to be running things in the not too distant future, him not able/willing to get babyfaces over will be a bigger problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015   Basically Triple H is probably everything Vince has always wished his own character to be but knew it wasn't possible. Nope, calling bullshit on this. Vince clearly understood his role was to get the babyfaces over at his expense I do not at all believe he had some secret wish to book himself as God mode HHH but just couldn't get away with it. Especially when Vince's philosophy has always been that the heels make the babyface look strong and his foundation has always been built on a strong babyface Ace of the company while HHH grew up idolizing Harley Race and Ric Flair the traveling heel champ who by hook or crook always retains his belt. Vince has said many times that he is really the Stone Cold character. So in a way he has always played out his fantasies in reverse. Triple H's authority figure character is like a mix of the Stone Cold character in terms of how badass he was and the Vince character in terms of power. I am not trying to suggest that Vince wouldn't put over Stone Cold if he had Triple H's pedigree. But the fact remains, it is still his show and he is letting Triple H run all over the babyfaces so to say he would never have booked that shit is patently untrue because...well he is booking that shit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I get that, but Hunter can't seem to get past the wrestler mentality of never wanting to look bad for fear of losing their spot. He was so good at playing politics (the "game", if you weeeeeell) that he can't seem to turn the switch off. If he's going to be running things in the not too distant future, him not able/willing to get babyfaces over will be a bigger problem. The other issue is I don't think Triple H entirely gets the value of having a strong babyface. Especially as goc points out, he was really the NWA heel champion fan. He thinks that because Harley Race and Ric Flair made it work, he would rather build a company on that philosophy rather than the WWF philosophy of having the franchise babyface ace. Who has he even started building up to succeed John Cena as the next guy? He has been more invested in building up the next heel champion superstar than he has in that. I just don't think Triple H's WWE will be what Vince's WWE had always been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 It's stupid too because most of the territories were still built around babyface aces regardless of the fact that the NWA champ was a traveling heel. If the territories didn't have a strong babyface that the fans wanted to see win the World Title then the traveling heel champ model would have never worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Vince lost sight of his major purpose being to get others over as the years went on. He was still more giving than The Authority is now, but not as much as he was in 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 So I'm watching Smackdown for the first time in a long time and I gotta agree with whoever said the presentation needs to change cuz it is cringeworthy mostly. Just certain aspects are like Nickalodean.!just like th fonts and graphics; for instance, the SummerSlam logos now are super lame compared to the original blue and gold one...but that's out dated. The Green/yellow/silver one used at SS 00, 01... The on with Brock/Rock. It's a terrible example I know but art direction is important to *art*. If they're the longest episodic show(or whatever shit they say) then have it look cool? Another thing is the tacky MITB case that's good with big green letters to match the dumb logo for the show(I did like the brinks truck and ladder staying at the Chicago MITB PPV a couple years ago, so it's not all bad). Â But as soon as they push me away they pull me right back in. First off the Roman Reigns-Wyatt segment right now is tight. Â Reigns: "Hell in a Cell." Bray: "I hope you're willing to die! I hope you're willing to die! I hope you're willing to die!!" Â Fuck yeah that's professional wrestling how I know it. maybe Triple H the will nut up and let these two try and steal the show...unless Taker and Brock politic so they don't get shown up.( I watched the Triple H DVD documentary last night and there was a hilarious but where Trips and Orton were complaining about Shawn-Taker having a great match with false finishes and "nobody in history could follow it" had to turn off after that") Â Wow. Kane literally just laid out the entire tag division by himself(and ran off Rollins). Wow we're back to that shit again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Vince McMahon is a former Royal Rumble winner & World Heavyweight Champion, right? He certainly had his flaws too. Agreed early on he was a lot better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 WO.com just posted a report from WWE stating John Cena's taking time off for "personal reasons" after the HIAC PPV. He's been banged up for a while, but the cynic in me thinks this is just them trying to sell the "Dolph wants Nikki back" storyline from Total Divas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 McMahon won the Rumble after a bunch of crash course TV and bullshit. It was the equivalent of winning when the other guy slipped on a banana peel when Rock came down and distracted Austin. Also, Austin came down and beat the shit out of HHH to let Vince win the title. It's not the same as HHH's overindulgent, self serving bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yea he also didn't put himself in the main event of WrestleMania due to winning the Rumble. It was just part of the continuing "Austin gets screwed by Vince" story. Vince winning the title was also not that bad because it was when the crowd was molten for him to get revenge on HHH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 When's the last time Hun-Tor, The King Of Kings got showed up by anyone at all? (Or at least, anyone besides Sting?) Serious question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 When's the last time Hun-Tor, The King Of Kings got showed up by anyone at all? (Or at least, anyone besides Sting?) Serious question. Â Guessing when the Shield ran through Evolution last year, June 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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