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TravJ1979

Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

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Question -

I was rewatching Survivor Series 91' this morning while I was exercising, and wanted to know, is Tunney's announcement that Roberts and Savage are off the card something that was announced before the show - like on Superstars - or was it really a true bait-and-switch where fans who ordered the pay-per-vew the night of the show or purchased tickets the day of the event were expecting Roberts and Savage to appear?

I mean, yes, pulling them from the show even a week before the show itself is still a weaselly, bullshit move in an era when people would presumably buy tickets based on what had been advertised for months prior (for example, the Ultimate Warrior was featured in the local promotion for SummerSlam 96'), but I was just curious what the timeline was.

Was Tunney's announcement aired on the Superstars (or whatever show) before Survivor Series? Or was it aired for the first time that night?

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It was on the Survivor Series Showdown show I believe which was a special USA ran before the PPV.

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Ahh. Do you remember if that was like the "day of" or the previous night?

I vaguely remember they did a show before WrestleMania VIII that featured a sitdown with Hogan but I swear it aired the night before (or maybe even a week before). 

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11/24/91 so 3 days before the show, run in lieu of Prime Time Wrestling.  I feel like it might have been a bit sooner on a superstars but I'm not sure.

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No, Tunney's announcement did not air on TV prior to Survivor Series--not on USA and not in syndication. The Showdown episode just teases that Savage will be there without stating outright that he'd be wrestling or not wrestling.

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With all of the hype Nick Gage is getting right now, I was wondering if there are any recommended matches I should check out. I've probably seen a half dozen of his matches in the last 20 years and can't think of anything that stands out as good. 

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VS Matthew Justice in AIW or any of his AIW stuff if you want non-deathmatch, his trilogy of matches VS Matt Tremont in GCW, and both the H8 Club matches VS Necro/Klein. Although I generally don't think he was very good otherwise pre incarceration, those two teams just had great chemistry.

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Oh god in my memory Hogan just disappeared with no explanation immediately after the Doomsday Cage match, but instead for some reason Hogan continues the feud with Arn and Sullivan (despite both beating both the DoD and Horsemen in the Doomsday Cage and also Arn/Sullivan having a spat and apparently breaking up their alliance), but now with The BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY Man instead of Macho, who is completely moved on along with Flair into their own angle that is entirely separated from this shit. Then Booty Man gets hurt I guess and so Hogan gets to demolish Arn/Sullivan in a handicap match, almost beat up Woman and Liz, then beat up Jimmy Hart, and THEN, after having decisively defeated The Giant in a cagematch at SuperBrawl and Giant since having been built back up with matches against Flair and Sting in recent weeks, completely no sells the chokeslam and slams Giant in a little skirmish that was a set up for a promo. 

 

This shit is just off the charts. Everything Hogan has done in 1996 has been just fucking terrible, but in the 2-3 weeks before and after Uncensored, it's like he's entirely in his own universe that is not connected to the rest of the show or promotion in any way. And it is so, so, so out of touch and stale. I believe after this, he doesn't show up again until the NWO SWERVE. Why on earth was he so intent to bury The Giant even when there was no reason to even have them interacting? It's even more blatant pandering to Hogan's ego because Giant is in the main event later in the show (in a team with Flair that makes no sense also but that's a different story) and the Hogan deal was completely ignored. 

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YMMV with these types of match obviously but the Necro/Klein vs. H8 Club match that was on the same day as Joe/Necro (anniversary of that was yesterday I think, to boot) is the best CZW match I can remember seeing.

My comment that doesn't warrant it's own thread is I hate we've felt the need to divide every five year span or so in WWF/E into "eras." It's not enough we just have this one point in history we call the Attitude Era, there has to be the "ruthless aggression" era, the "PG" era, the *barf* """"Reality"""" era. I was gonna put it this in the pet peeve thread but like I truly hate it even if I can't make some formal argument against it. 

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I think the last time an "era" really ended was what, Cena winning the US title? It signalled the end of Cena's run as the ace and shifted him to the midcard. Since then, it's basically been the same era. Hell, even the "PG Era" and "Reality Era" were basically the same. 

I totally understand the frustration about naming every 5-year period an era. It's basically working backwards: we decide that a certain time period will be a new era, and then find reasons to justify it, as well as to name the actual era. For me, eras should be called such only if it represents a complete break from the past. "Rock and Wrestling Era", "Attitude Era" and "Uber-corporate PG Era" are the only three proper WWF/WWE eras I can think of using that definition 

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I just think it's funny that the entire pre-VKM era of the WWWF gets lumped into one 20 year era.

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I actually find it interesting that there are basically no WWE biopics or features on Vince Sr. I get that he ran things a long time ago and most current fans were not even born then, but still. Surely they can do that instead of like the 50th DVD about Montreal or Austin v. McMahon?

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VKM has daddy issues. He didn't get to meet Sr. until he was like 13 and it seems like his goal was to erase any traces of what his dad created. I don't think it's a coincidence that the only person who was star when Sr was in charge that ever held in high esteem was Andre and even that was probably because he helped draw the biggest house the WWF ever had until Dallas Mania. Even Pat Patterson's legacy got recast as "Vince's right hand man who was the first IC champ but we'll never talk about anything else he did as a wrestler".  

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2 hours ago, sek69 said:

I just think it's funny that the entire pre-VKM era of the WWWF gets lumped into one 20 year era.

And on top of that I've more than a couple times just seen it referred to as "the pre-Hulkamania era" or something else lame. Which, as a way to refer to that large period of time in a vacuum is fine, but it's like some want it to stick as the official name for the time period. I just went to the History of WWE wikipedia article and it has the Reality Era as 2014-2016 (I think most have it around when Punk got hot in 2011?), while 2016-present is "the New Era." What the hell like really. NEW Era? New as in, post-Cena?

WWE's own website has these in a poll:

The Golden Age (‘80s to early ‘90s)
New Generation Era (Early to mid ‘90s)
Attitude Era (mid ‘90s to early 2000s)
Ruthless Aggression Era (2002 to 2008)
PG Era (2008 to 2013)
Reality Era (2014-2016)
The New Era (2016 to present)

I dunno. This doesn't weigh on me constantly or anything but like they took what I'm pretty sure were mostly fan nicknames for a group of years and made it some weird canon.

--

I sometimes wonder if it's exaggerated that Vince makes sure none of his talent are called "__ Jr." (Rey Mysterio, Chavo Guerrero, Ted DiBiase, Bob Orton, etc) because he doesn't like technically being a "Jr" but yeah no it really does seem to line up.

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Most of Sr's associates, most notably Lou Albano, would call VKM "Junior" specifically because they knew he hated it which is why no one is allowed to be a Jr. in WWE. 

to be fair though  they did push the "New Generation" and "Attitude" names pretty hard at the time, and they did their best to make "Ruthless Aggression" a thing even if it didn't really stick as much as they obviously hoped it would. Plus the "Golden Age" thing seems like them trying to not have to reference You Know Who since anyone who was even somewhat aware of wrestling during that time would call it the Hulkamania Era.

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VKM isn't a junior, though. His father's name was Vincent James McMahon. I think most people who aren't juniors wouldn't appreciate being referred to as such. In fact, even if I was one, I'd despise the idea of being seen as mainly an extension of my father with no real identity of my own.

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I'm watching some old ECW from 94, it really doesn't age well. Between the cool music being replaced with elevator music by WWE, unprotected headshots, guys legitimately getting hurt, and babyfaces sexually harrassing heel valets to get a pop, it just doesn't look good. The things that as a middle schooler seemed so edgy and cool now seem reckless and juvenile. 

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Tommy Dreamer getting huge babyface reactions for not just piledriving valets, but deliberately showing off their underwear while doing it is like watching footage from an alien world these days. 

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Gotta say, I have enjoyed strobogo's dive into 1995 and 1996 WCW Babyface Hulk Hogan. I remembered it being dull and boring, but I had forgotten just how self-indulgent and insecure that run was. If Steve Austin had cut the Austin 3:16 promo in WCW in that environment, Hogan would have been on TV the very next day, saying 'ass' 50 times in 5 minutes and making zingers about every Bible phrase he could think of

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Hogan burning an actual copy of the Wrestling Observer on national TV has to be the most "gotten to" moment in the history of professional wrestling.

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