TeeVenegas Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Does anybody else ever have a hard time distinguishing between a shoot and a work? The great shooters who had a ton of charisma and showmanship (ie Saku, Tamura, Aoki, Ogawa, etc) seem to almost be working during their shoots. Like they are trying carry their weaker opponents to make the fight more exciting. They understand the value of the fight being entertaining to the point where it seems like a work at times. At the same time those same guys who are truly exceptional have works where the work is so violent and realistic that its almost more realistic than their shoots. Anybody else ever feel this way? Hmm, I'll just say that a lot of the Pancrase I've watched seemed heavily worked. I understand MMA in 2017 and MMA in 1996 were totally different worlds but it always seemed to me that unless those guys never trained striking a day in their lives, they left far too many openings on the feet for me to buy that it was a real fight. Maybe I just need to rewatch but that's the vibe I always got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Shinya Aoki? I don't think he really fits with the others. If he gets a good grip of an arm or leg, he's going to try to rip it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornette's racket Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Joey Ryan is an embarrassment to pro wrestling. How the hell is using your dick in a match a good thing ? Jim cornette is right he's a waste of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Joey Ryan is an embarrassment to pro wrestling. How the hell is using your dick in a match a good thing ? Jim cornette is right he's a waste of talent. I agree completely. But the way things are now, if you don't praise every stupid gimmick an indy wrestler does, you're deemed "Out of touch." I can't believe Foley wasted a bump on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 He got himself over with a comedy spot, hurts no one, contributed to create a promotion that gives indy guys some work, proposed his girlfriend in the middle of a match... That makes Joey Ryan better than a whole lot of guys in pro-wrestling to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 The dick suplex doesn't bother me. I thought the Mick Foley one was hilarious though. I also laughed my ass off at the Young Bucks super kicking the 8 year old. I don't get this hate for it. Comedy has always been a part of wrestling. It adds variety and flavor. It's a single spot in a match that pops the crowd. It's no worse than the Worm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Jim Cornette is also great for letting me know when some memorable piece of comedy happens out there. I know if he's outraged by it that it's going to be funny. He's also out of touch. He booked RoH into the ground and he acts like Seth Rollins is the greatest thing ever when his title reign tanked Raw ratings to historic lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 What WWF Magazine had a article on every single Randy Savage attire photos? Was also wondering if there is a list of all the Stone Cold shirts made. I just noticed he wore a exclusive one on Sunday Night Heat back in 98. If you watch the Breakdown intro video you see it there where he Stunners Vince who just middle fingers Austin. This wasen't part of the Heat broadcast so hopefully when the Network does put them up we get exclusive footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 The dick suplex doesn't bother me. I thought the Mick Foley one was hilarious though. I also laughed my ass off at the Young Bucks super kicking the 8 year old. I don't get this hate for it. Comedy has always been a part of wrestling. It adds variety and flavor. It's a single spot in a match that pops the crowd. It's no worse than the Worm. Comedy wrestling sucks. It fails as wrestling and comedy. I have seen matches with comedic elements that work. But most comedy wrestling is garbage. Well let me dial that back. The Young Bucks super kicks are funny. You would think throwing fifty a match they could do one right. Also Foley wasting a bump on something like Joey Ryan is amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornette's racket Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 The worm was a comedy spot but at least the end the worm involved the guy Scotty gave it to selling it. And as bad as joey Ryan is for that stupid spot, the fact that his opponent has to agree to this horseshit is worse still. Imagine Joey Ryan trying that bollocks in mid south ? Bill watts would have been the least of his problems. The locker room would have been worse for making a mockery of the wrestling business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Bill Watts would have sent him to Memphis where he would have got a run as a top star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Yes, let's talk about him trying a move in a company that existed when the Commodore 64 was still a viable computing platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornette's racket Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Yes, let's talk about him trying a move in a company that existed when the Commodore 64 was still a viable computing platform. The era doesn't matter. The crap Joey Ryan is doing now is shit now and has always been the shit. Joey Ryan said he was trained with/by Samoa joe and Daniel Bryan in the earlier 2000s The difference between those three is that two of them took wrestling serious and are in WWE and have been world champions because they are good at what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Bill Watts would have sent him to Memphis where he would have got a run as a top star. He would not have been doing that garbage in Memphis either. There is a way to do comedy stuff without killing every ones credibility. Now I know the natural response (unfortunately) is to say something something no kayfabe, But even in something "fictional", you characters need credibility, I actually think Ryan is a decent enough worker without the stupid spots. But does the dick spot really draw money. Do fans go to shows specifically to see it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I wouldn't but I will tell you this. If I sat through a 4 hour show I would probably remember the dick spot before the 5,000 dives to the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I would think it gets him booked on shows and sells merch. He seems to be a smart enough guy that he would stop doing it if it was actively hurting his earning potential. Ya'll are cracking me up acting like goofy comedy wrestlers/spots are a thing that only started in the 2000's or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I would think it gets him booked on shows and sells merch. He seems to be a smart enough guy that he would stop doing it if it was actively hurting his earning potential. Ya'll are cracking me up acting like goofy comedy wrestlers/spots are a thing that only started in the 2000's or so. It didn't start but it wasn't featured like it is now. It has a place in opening matches at county fairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I would think it gets him booked on shows and sells merch. He seems to be a smart enough guy that he would stop doing it if it was actively hurting his earning potential. Ya'll are cracking me up acting like goofy comedy wrestlers/spots are a thing that only started in the 2000's or so. Shhh... that guy didn't wrestle as Batman in the 60s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I mean, I wouldn't watch a whole card where there was a Joey Ryan type in every match, but I don't see how having him on a show is the ruination of the wrestling business. If you guys catch the vapors this bad over Joey's antics I'd hate to see if any of you ever watch a Danshoku Dino match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I mean, I wouldn't watch a whole card where there was a Joey Ryan type in every match, but I don't see how having him on a show is the ruination of the wrestling business. If you guys catch the vapors this bad over Joey's antics I'd hate to see if any of you ever watch a Danshoku Dino match. By about hour 3 of your average indy show I would kill someone for something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I use to watch Hustle, but it existed in a vacuum. Its dumb crap had a rhyme and reason. It wasn't the wrestling equivalent of Tim and Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 There is a difference between comedy that makes fun of the heels or the ref and comedy that makes fun of wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I swear I remember in summer of 99 wcw running an angle where Kidman had a crush on Kimberly that would lead to him feuding with DDP. But apparently he thought it would hurt his character or something and he begged to have it dropped. And it ended up going nowhere. Was it supposed to be a long term deal? Weird that Kidman was leery about the feud since ddp was pretty giving in putting over younger guys. At least more than the average wcw top guy of the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 comedy that makes fun of wrestling. The inability to laugh at yourself, or the things you love, is a pretty sad thing in general. People are taking this stuff way too seriously. Plus, if you really think about it, the Dick Spot is nothing but an absurd gag using one of the most unrealistic, stupid as fuck spot in pro-wrestling anyway, the Hulking Up. There's nothing more ridiculous than Hulking Up. Joey Ryan does a comedic version of it in the context of his own sleazy character and it's quite funny. Low brow ? Like pro-wrestling is anything but. This spot is kinda like burlesque. You don't have to find it funny, but to say it's an embarrassement to pro-wrestling is just taking shit way too fucking seriously. And really, Joey Ryan found a gimmick spot, it sells tickets and merch, gives him booking, gets him over. That's what pro-wrestling is all about. And he did it by himself too, without a promotionnal machine or "creative writers" finding "stuff for him to do". FWIW, I didn't even knew about Ryan dick spot before someone talked about it on this board, he doesn't use it in Lucha Underground where I saw the guy for the first time. He's a perfectly fine worker too, it's not like he's Jimmy the Boogie Woogie Man Valliant or some old-school respectable serious worker of that ilk. If you guys catch the vapors this bad over Joey's antics I'd hate to see if any of you ever watch a Danshoku Dino match. Indeed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Joey Ryan is nothing like Jimmy Valiant. Valiant drew money and was over. There is a significant difference between laughing at yourself and demeaning yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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