NXT TakeOver Toronto/WWE Survivor Series Weekend

[Childs]

Surely we can criticize Dave without slandering him, right? Because that's what it is when you attack his professional credibility without any hint of specific evidence: slander.

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again--I am a veteran journalist, and I absolutely respect Dave as a fellow journalist, even though I'm not a fan of a lot of his stylistic choices.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Makes you miss the glory days of jdw vs JVK

This is a board based on grown men playfighting in their underwear. Yet somehow, this has taken the cake.

[Therealheel]

Ok , I slandered Dave. I admit this. I apologize to those who got offended from the act of slander. I am finding this very ironic in a way. I could come up with loads of evidence to support my attack on his credibility but I feel that I should hold my stance and admit to the slander without defense.

[...TG]

I could come up with loads of evidence to support my attack on his credibility but I feel that I should hold my stance and admit to the slander without defense.

 

Wait, what? That's crazy.

[WingedEagle]

In other news related to the recent Takeover show, I started my MOTY rewatch a little early. Usually wait until December to go back and do so but decided to take advantage of the long weekend. I like to go chronologically for that purpose and thus far have watched the 3 big matches from Wrestle Kingdom as well as Brock/Reigns/Ambrose from Fastlane.

 

Very much looking forward to Gargano/Ciampa vs. Revival finishing this little project sometime before the new year, as I could easily see that placing as high as #2. Still don't see any way anything approaches Tanahashi/Okada from WK. It didn't lose a thing on rewatch while a few points and spots even stood out more strongly than I remembered. Looking over the list of what I'm planning on rewatching this has been an absolutely incredible year for high end matches. Just absurd compared to recent years, and that's in spite of how much a chore the main television program has become.

[fxnj]

I don't have an issue calling Dave a journalist just like I don't have an issue calling the editors of WrestleZone and WrestlingInc journalists as well. A journalist simply means a guy who reports news. Whether or not he's a good journalist is an entirely different matter, and I'd also argue his style puts him more in line with Perez Hilton and TMZ than it does ESPN. The idea in wrestling circles that he's some amazing journalist bearing the weight of the community on his shoulders strikes me as a big fish in small pond situation, considering that he's not seen as anything special in the world of MMA despite spending half or more of his day covering it.

[Therealheel]

I am not shocked you find it crazy but that's the end to this for me.

 

Do you like Progress Wrestling TG?, come over to the microscope thread and we can talk about something that I want to talk about instead of this.

[WingedEagle]

Where do folks see things heading for the next Takeover over Rumble weekend?

 

We're getting the Joe vs. Nak rematch in Japan next month where I presume Nakamura regains the title. Do they go back to this pairing for January or does Joe get a promotion and they try to get Roode up to that level?

 

Gargano/Ciampa vs. AOP certainly looks like the next direction for the tag titles with the Revival apparently getting called up and AOP winning the Dusty tourney.

 

Perhaps a bigger push for Sanity heading into that show resulting in a PPV match?

 

Itami/Aries revisited? Or will either/both not be back in time?

 

Presumably Ember Moon is next in line for a shot at Asuka, but that division has become a real weak spot with Bayley & Jax getting promoted. Some interesting characters and developmental talent underneath for the women, but absolutely none of them feel like credible TV challengers, much less for a Takeover.

[fxnj]

I'm also not sure why people would be so up in arms at the idea that Dave isn't an impartial saint. I'm sure longtime subscribers can recount numerous times he's been wrong or twisted the facts to fit his narrative. A post in here that disputes such a thing also happens to list probably the most famous example of that in his ongoing treatment of the entire sport of MMA as simply an extension of pro wrestling. The guy has a narrative he wants to sell, just like Pritchard, and Russo, and any other writer ever.

[stro]

I'm quite positive that Heyman used to make deals with Meltzer to hype certain angles and matches/shows/tapes from ECW to his audience. At the very least, multiple promoters would leak him info to get a buzz about something, and there is no denying that. He also worked with Pillman to make his readers truly believe in the Loose Cannon angle. Ultimately, DM is a worker like anyone else in the business, it's just that his fans don't realize it.

[The Thread Killer]

I'm quite positive that Heyman used to make deals with Meltzer to hype certain angles and matches/shows/tapes from ECW to his audience. At the very least, multiple promoters would leak him info to get a buzz about something, and there is no denying that. He also worked with Pillman to make his readers truly believe in the Loose Cannon angle. Ultimately, DM is a worker like anyone else in the business, it's just that his fans don't realize it.

 

I don't know if you've read the book by Heath McCoy about Stampede Wrestling, called "Pain & Passion?" (If not, you should. It's really good.) McCoy works as a reporter for the Calgary Sun. He covers Pro Wrestling. In the book, McCoy writes that when Stampede was active, he would report on particular angles or matches if Bruce Hart asked him to. If I remember correctly, McCoy used to actually contact Hart and initiate these deals. One would assume the flip side was that Hart would grant him access at Stampede shows and give interviews when asked. I don't see a problem with any of that. It's symbiotic between the reporter and promoter. I am sure there is a line that needs to be drawn in there somewhere, and that the line might be hard to find sometimes, but I don't have a big issue with it.

 

What I would have an issue with, would be people denying that Heath McCoy is actually a journalist at all, just because he had a relationship with a promoter. I would also question the intelligence of those who were unable to tell the difference between when McCoy was reporting on a story, or helping out a promotion by publicizing an angle by reporting on it. Finally, I would have an issue with anybody who was unable to discern the difference between a journalist who reports on something, and a promoter who usually has a different agenda.

[The Thread Killer]

 

I could come up with loads of evidence to support my attack on his credibility but I feel that I should hold my stance and admit to the slander without defense.

 

Wait, what? That's crazy.

 

 

So it's not just me, then.

 

Although fair warning: you disagreed with him, so apparently that means you're "attacking" him. Expect a hysterical plea to drop the whole discussion and move on, forthwith.

[fxnj]

 

 

I'm quite positive that Heyman used to make deals with Meltzer to hype certain angles and matches/shows/tapes from ECW to his audience. At the very least, multiple promoters would leak him info to get a buzz about something, and there is no denying that. He also worked with Pillman to make his readers truly believe in the Loose Cannon angle. Ultimately, DM is a worker like anyone else in the business, it's just that his fans don't realize it.

I don't know if you've read the book by Heath McCoy about Stampede Wrestling, called "Pain & Passion?" (If not, you should. It's really good.) McCoy works as a reporter for the Calgary Sun. He covers Pro Wrestling. In the book, McCoy writes that when Stampede was active, he would report on particular angles or matches if Bruce Hart asked him to. If I remember correctly, McCoy used to actually contact Hart and initiate these deals. One would assume the flip side was that Hart would grant him access at Stampede shows and give interviews when asked. I don't see a problem with any of that. It's symbiotic between the reporter and promoter. I am sure there is a line that needs to be drawn in there somewhere, and that the line might be hard to find sometimes, but I don't have a big issue with it.

 

What I would have an issue with, would be people denying that Heath McCoy is actually a journalist at all, just because he had a relationship with a promoter. I would also question the intelligence of those who were unable to tell the difference between when McCoy was reporting on a story, or helping out a promotion by publicizing an angle by reporting on it. Finally, I would have an issue with anybody who was unable to discern the difference between a journalist who reports on something, and a promoter who usually has a different agenda.

That's called a conflict of interest and it's a pretty big thing journalists are supposed to avoid. Dave being involved in something like that doesn't discount the stuff he's written about other promotions, but it does draw into question your attempt to make a hard line between "insider" carnies and Dave if he's essentially worked as a paid publicist for promotions in the past. The guy has as much of an agenda to push as anyone else making money off the industry, and the image of himself as a total outsider is part of that.

[PeteF3]

He also worked with Pillman to make his readers truly believe in the Loose Cannon angle.

 

When specifically was this? Meltzer makes no attempt in his recap of the Pillman-Sullivan match to pass it off as a shoot. He even includes the amusing story that the entire locker room was worked with the exception of Disco Inferno, the only guy to declare that they were working the boys.

 

None of this speculation means anything without some hard examples. As in cited quotes from the newsletter itself. I'm not asking you to cut and paste entire newsletters but if this is that prevalent it shouldn't be too difficult to find a specific example.

[Grimmas]

I think it's more likely Meltzer just likes shitty wrestling than he was on the take.