C.S. Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 If Russo were booking this, Renee would dump Dean for Ellsworth. Now I want to see that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Nothing on here compares to Styles-Reigns or Styles-Cena, but that may have been the best overall main roster show since the Rumble. The low-stakes shows in WWE really are the best lately: that this was so much better than Survivor Series, Summerslam, and even Mania is pretty crazy. Also enjoying the new move toward PPVs that are shorter than RAW. If AJ wasn’t already WOTY, he is now. The 450 through the table could be the most amazing spot I’ve seen this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Alexa Bliss almost went back to her babyface pixie dust girl stuff when talking about winning the title and his family watching their first WWE show. Luckily she was able to turn the switch back when they started talking about Becky Lynch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Ellsworth explaining why he did what he did was perfect. It doesn't look like he is doing because he is against Dean Ambrose but because he legit thinks he is better than AJ Styles and "has his number" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 My fucking God, Miz is at least Top 10 in the world. Those promos are just unbelievable, and the overall quality of his feud with Ziggler, while also having other great matches throughout the year, give him a career high year. Talking Smack was amazing tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 God damn. I have to start watching Talking Smack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Alexa Bliss is someone who seems like she was initially meant to be a throwaway challenger, but through hard work and sheer personality over the past few months, she elevated herself. Great stuff. Agreed. The Alexa/Becky talking segments during this feud have been some of my favorite mic work this year. Loved their first match in Glasgow and tonight ruled too. Both women are excellent. Happy for Alexa to get a run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Can we stop pretending Corbin sucks now? Because that match kicked ass. Kalisto brought the hatred in that match too, something WWE underdog babyfaces don't often get to show. That finish..... damn. That feeling you get while watching a match you know is going to be good but then gets REALLY good, yeah, this had it. Corbin is the man, end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm so confused at why people think a heel being happy and emotional over winning the title in front of her parents is this huge kayfabe breaking thing. It's great when Bryan actually breaks kayfabe and bitches about his position and how he hates doing it, but when Alexa is happy she won the title, it's not good? It's the reality era, not the golden era. Cheating in the ring doesn't mean you're a piece of shit 100% of the time in your life. The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm so confused at why people think a heel being happy and emotional over winning the title in front of her parents is this huge kayfabe breaking thing. It's great when Bryan actually breaks kayfabe and bitches about his position and how he hates doing it, but when Alexa is happy she won the title, it's not good? It's the reality era, not the golden era. Cheating in the ring doesn't mean you're a piece of shit 100% of the time in your life. The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. I think some of it is probably how extreme Alexa's character is. She's basically the embodiment of nastiness. You don't want to see that break in the same way that you don't mind other characters breaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm so confused at why people think a heel being happy and emotional over winning the title in front of her parents is this huge kayfabe breaking thing. It's great when Bryan actually breaks kayfabe and bitches about his position and how he hates doing it, but when Alexa is happy she won the title, it's not good? It's the reality era, not the golden era. Cheating in the ring doesn't mean you're a piece of shit 100% of the time in your life. The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. I think some of it is probably how extreme Alexa's character is. She's basically the embodiment of nastiness. You don't want to see that break in the same way that you don't mind other characters breaking. I don't see it as breaking at all. She just reached the pinnacle of her profession, in front of her parents. Seems like a pretty reasonable time to be happy and not a piece of shit for a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm so confused at why people think a heel being happy and emotional over winning the title in front of her parents is this huge kayfabe breaking thing. It's great when Bryan actually breaks kayfabe and bitches about his position and how he hates doing it, but when Alexa is happy she won the title, it's not good? It's the reality era, not the golden era. Cheating in the ring doesn't mean you're a piece of shit 100% of the time in your life. The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. I think some of it is probably how extreme Alexa's character is. She's basically the embodiment of nastiness. You don't want to see that break in the same way that you don't mind other characters breaking. I don't see it as breaking at all. She just reached the pinnacle of her profession, in front of her parents. Seems like a pretty reasonable time to be happy and not a piece of shit for a few minutes. Maybe if she had better parents, she wouldn't be a horrible kayfabe monster? They're probably poachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm so confused at why people think a heel being happy and emotional over winning the title in front of her parents is this huge kayfabe breaking thing. It's great when Bryan actually breaks kayfabe and bitches about his position and how he hates doing it, but when Alexa is happy she won the title, it's not good? It's the reality era, not the golden era. Cheating in the ring doesn't mean you're a piece of shit 100% of the time in your life. The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. I think some of it is probably how extreme Alexa's character is. She's basically the embodiment of nastiness. You don't want to see that break in the same way that you don't mind other characters breaking. I don't see it as breaking at all. She just reached the pinnacle of her profession, in front of her parents. Seems like a pretty reasonable time to be happy and not a piece of shit for a few minutes. Maybe if she had better parents, she wouldn't be a horrible kayfabe monster? They're probably poachers. Or, like most heels, she's heel because it helps her win matches. Going back to KO, he's a heel who cheats because he wants to win titles so he can have more money for his family. He's obviously not the same piece of shit with his family that he is during a wrestling match. He's usually a pretty normal and sometimes nice guy even on screen as long as he's not in the ring. It wasn't that long ago that she was the sweet bubbly pixie girl, but she changed her attitude because it wasn't benefiting her career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm so confused at why people think a heel being happy and emotional over winning the title in front of her parents is this huge kayfabe breaking thing. It's great when Bryan actually breaks kayfabe and bitches about his position and how he hates doing it, but when Alexa is happy she won the title, it's not good? It's the reality era, not the golden era. Cheating in the ring doesn't mean you're a piece of shit 100% of the time in your life. The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. I think some of it is probably how extreme Alexa's character is. She's basically the embodiment of nastiness. You don't want to see that break in the same way that you don't mind other characters breaking. I don't see it as breaking at all. She just reached the pinnacle of her profession, in front of her parents. Seems like a pretty reasonable time to be happy and not a piece of shit for a few minutes. Maybe if she had better parents, she wouldn't be a horrible kayfabe monster? They're probably poachers. Bryan legit called her mom a pageant mom on a Talking Smack, haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. Didn't he kill his parents though? Or was that Kane? Seriously though, the KO example is a perfect one. Everything he does, he does for his family. It's not unreasonable that Alexa Bliss is also more complicated than "total bitch." Shouldn't we be happy that WWE has progressed beyond "catty" as a personality trait for every single female? With that said, yeah, she broke kayfabe, and yeah, it was jarring. But Bryan and Renee encouraged her, so that's obviously what they wanted. When it came time for her to turn her game-face back on, she did just that and heeled it up with relish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I really enjoyed the match, but maybe I missed something... Why did Ellsworth distract AJ from getting the title only to help him win it immediately after? Logic? Adding ... he wants to face AJ for the title ... so he distracts him from winning the title so he can help him win the title... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I really enjoyed the match, but maybe I missed something... Why did Ellsworth distract AJ from getting the title only to help him win it immediately after? Logic? Adding ... he wants to face AJ for the title ... so he distracts him from winning the title so he can help him win the title... The distraction wasn't intentional. Styles just wants to kill him so much that he got distracted when he saw Ellsworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm so confused at why people think a heel being happy and emotional over winning the title in front of her parents is this huge kayfabe breaking thing. It's great when Bryan actually breaks kayfabe and bitches about his position and how he hates doing it, but when Alexa is happy she won the title, it's not good? It's the reality era, not the golden era. Cheating in the ring doesn't mean you're a piece of shit 100% of the time in your life. The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. The show is meant to exist in kayfabe. Hence what Bliss did was considered briefly breaking character from her self centered, all about me heel character. Also The Undertaker's parents weren't fictionalized versions of Mark Callaway's parents, so that was still completely in character, at the time anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. Didn't he kill his parents though? Or was that Kane? Seriously though, the KO example is a perfect one. Everything he does, he does for his family. It's not unreasonable that Alexa Bliss is also more complicated than "total bitch." Shouldn't we be happy that WWE has progressed beyond "catty" as a personality trait for every single female? With that said, yeah, she broke kayfabe, and yeah, it was jarring. But Bryan and Renee encouraged her, so that's obviously what they wanted. When it came time for her to turn her game-face back on, she did just that and heeled it up with relish. I think the quick flip was really what felt jarring. Felt like it missed a step rhetorically - she's overcome with emotion, and then immediately flips back to being unpleasant. It needed a more gradual transition or the announcers calling it out - "Wow, you really put your game face back on." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Also, where do you get Bryan's "I hate what I'm doing" comments as kayfabe breaking? The character is thrusted into a leadership role he was never suited for, and is struggling to ignore an itch to get back in the ring. Getting shat on by Corbin and Miz (especially) on a weekly basis clearly doesn't help, and I wouldn't be surprised if they went the Bret Hart vs Miz route where Bryan is in a low impact Non DQ match (massive run-ins and interference and doesn't take the SCF) with Miz as a blow off. I'm sure IRL Danielson probably came to grips with it before Character Bryan did, which is probably why Character Bryan is still around with the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I really enjoyed the match, but maybe I missed something... Why did Ellsworth distract AJ from getting the title only to help him win it immediately after? Logic? Adding ... he wants to face AJ for the title ... so he distracts him from winning the title so he can help him win the title... The distraction wasn't intentional. Styles just wants to kill him so much that he got distracted when he saw Ellsworth. But, didn't he wait until AJ was about to already win before he came out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I really enjoyed the match, but maybe I missed something... Why did Ellsworth distract AJ from getting the title only to help him win it immediately after? Logic? Adding ... he wants to face AJ for the title ... so he distracts him from winning the title so he can help him win the title... The distraction wasn't intentional. Styles just wants to kill him so much that he got distracted when he saw Ellsworth. But, didn't he wait until AJ was about to already win before he came out? Kayfabe/Johnny Sorrow Logic: Came down ready to taunt right away and shout "I got your number, See You Next Tuesday!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 There ya go! Ha, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVZ Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 The fucking Undertaker had parents that he loved, after all. Didn't he kill his parents though? Or was that Kane? Seriously though, the KO example is a perfect one. Everything he does, he does for his family. It's not unreasonable that Alexa Bliss is also more complicated than "total bitch." Shouldn't we be happy that WWE has progressed beyond "catty" as a personality trait for every single female? With that said, yeah, she broke kayfabe, and yeah, it was jarring. But Bryan and Renee encouraged her, so that's obviously what they wanted. When it came time for her to turn her game-face back on, she did just that and heeled it up with relish. I think the quick flip was really what felt jarring. Felt like it missed a step rhetorically - she's overcome with emotion, and then immediately flips back to being unpleasant. It needed a more gradual transition or the announcers calling it out - "Wow, you really put your game face back on." I was actually fine with the flip because it happened right when the announcers brought up Becky. Alexa conveyed her animosity and resentment toward Becky by turning on a dime like she did. She also seized an opening to go back into her heel character. As many of you have discussed, I'm also fine with Alexa being happy and emotional for winning the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'd say: AJ Styles Vs. Dean Ambrose - Springboard 450 was nuts. Match itself was good, not great. Hated the finish. ***3/4 Becky Lynch Vs. Alexa Bliss - Too sloppy. Disappointed. ** The Miz Vs. Dolph Ziggler - Felt like they were told to hold back to not upstage the main event. Especially in the beginning. Disliked the finish. ***1/2 Heath Slater & Rhyno Vs. Bray Wyatt & Randy Orton - Nothing match. Forgettable. *1/2 Nikki Bella Vs. Carmella - Sloppy. Picked up with some weapon stuff. Carmella is REAL bad. *1/2 Kalisto Vs. Baron Corbin - Exceeded expectations & I was high on this match going in. MOTN for me. **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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