The 10,000 person crowd

[sek69]

So as backstory, someone asked Dave on Twitter if he felt ROH could draw 10,000 for a show. Dave replied probably not, and Cody Rhodes saw that and took as a challenge. He and the Young Bucks announced they plan to promote a show aimed to be the first non WWE show to have a crowd over 10,000 in the US since WCW died.

 

Clearly as over as the Bullet Club is, they can probably pop the largest non WWE crowd in a while...but 10,000 sounds like a pretty ambitious goal unless they were able to get New Japan to send some big names.

 

My other thought is I wonder if Cody and Daniel Bryan have something worked out. They've been working a program on Twitter for a while, Bryan clearly wants to return to wrestling, and if anything has a shot to draw a 10k crowd you'd think that would be one of the matches that would get in the ballpark.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I went to an ROH Show that had AJ Styles, Tanahashi, Okada, Nakamura and Liger on it and they sold out the Ballroom, but they weren't turning away 8k-9k.

 

Bryan's return maybe? Maybe? I don't know. Cody vs Bryan was a mediocre match in 2010 and I have no interest in it now.

 

CM Punk in Chicago, their best chance and I think their only chance.

 

Well heres the logical followup question what is the largest non-WWE show in the US since the demise of WCW?

[Matt D]

I think 60% of this fight is conning a bunch of people on the internet into thinking that they'd be accomplishing something and making a grand statement and would be part of history if they travel to the show. It's not about the card. It's not about what NJPW talent they get. It's about working a bunch of young rubes that feel entitled to be part of the show.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Matt, I can see your point and clearly that will be what they try to draw on. Dave Meltzer says we cant do it, lets show him! But I really don't think that is a strong enough drawing card.

Doing some quick research:

 

TNA Lockdown 2013 - Alamodome (they ran the Alamodome?!?!) - 7200

TNA Slammiversary 2012 - Arlington, TX- 5500

[Matt D]

Matt, I can see your point and clearly that will be what they try to draw on. Dave Meltzer says we cant do it, lets show him! But I really don't think that is a strong enough drawing card.

 

Doing some quick research:

 

TNA Lockdown 2013 - Alamodome (they ran the Alamodome?!?!) - 7200

TNA Slammiversary 2012 - Arlington, TX- 5500

 

And I said that'd be 60% of the fight, so those numbers make me think 6000 is possible without Daniel Bryan!

[tim]

I think 60% of this fight is conning a bunch of people on the internet into thinking that they'd be accomplishing something and making a grand statement and would be part of history if they travel to the show. It's not about the card. It's not about what NJPW talent they get. It's about working a bunch of young rubes that feel entitled to be part of the show.

 

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'd like to see a more vibrant US wrestling scene with more viable alternative. I appreciate the ambition of something like this and hope they succeed; probably a lot of people who would go to the show if it actually managed to get close to those numbers would be going largely for that reason.

[sek69]

Like the entire reason for pro wrestling as a buisness is to entice people to go to the show and feel like they were part of history.

[tim]

And surely in the Bryan scenario the main event to promote is Bryan/Omega, not Bryan/Cody.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I see everyone's point. Wrestling is ultimately a carny business and the goal is to pretty much get people in the door by any means, necessary. I agree the more competition the better. However, I think I am more aligned with Matt, it just feels disingenuous (yes, I know wrestling and being genuine), but it would mean a lot more if instead of promoting as a way to stick to Meltzer or do something that has not been done since WCW, that Kenny Omega or Cody Rhodes was actually that over.

 

ROH, wrestlemania weekend with the Hardys on top at the height of the Broken Universe, 3500.

 

Yep, CM Punk in Chicago, get that or just give up.

 

I feel like there is some weird Indie or maybe even a lucha promotion that has hit 10k since 2000?

[goc]

I don't think they can draw 10,000 people. It seems totally unrealistic and so far away from what any indie show has drawn in the U.S. that I kind of give them a 0% chance of pulling it off.

 

NEW is the indie promotion that draws more paying fans in the U.S. than anyone other than WWE (which of course Dave Meltzer is too busy crowing about PWG selling 300 tickets every few months to actually cover. $10.99 folks) and they do quite well running minor league baseball stadiums in the summer using guys like Cody, Rey Mysterio, Ryback, Jerry Lawler, Jim Duggan and other various former WWE guys or big indie names. If you watch those shows on the Highspots Network the crowds look good and there are clearly 2,000+ people there. But they aren't sold out. So what chances do Cody and The Bucks have of selling out a 10,000 seat arena when Cody and Rey Mysterio couldn't sell out a 5,000 seat baseball stadium?

 

As far as promoting it as the "Let's show everyone how wrong Dave Meltzer is and prove The Bullet Club is as big as WWE!" experience and trying to get a bunch of marks to fly in for the show, that's definitely the way they will probably try to go. It will work to draw a respectable crowd BUT the thing is, those types of fans they are drawing are the same ones who love bragging about pictures of empty seats for a WWE show so it will be a big hit to their narrative to only do 6,000 people in a 10,000 seat arena even if the show winds up being profitable. This whole experiment seems as much about furthering a narrative as it is about actually making money so just drawing 6,000 people is gonna be looked at as a failure regardless of financial success.

[benj]

PWG

It's about working a bunch of young rubes that feel entitled to be part of the show.

[Loss]

I want to say there have been some big-drawing lucha libre shows in the U.S. post-WCW. What was the one with Santo that drew 5K?

[FMKK]

Matt, I can see your point and clearly that will be what they try to draw on. Dave Meltzer says we cant do it, lets show him! But I really don't think that is a strong enough drawing card.

Doing some quick research:

 

TNA Lockdown 2013 - Alamodome (they ran the Alamodome?!?!) - 7200

TNA Slammiversary 2012 - Arlington, TX- 5500

It'll be more than that. They'll quickly turn it into 'let's show Vince he's not the only one who can draw 10,000' and try to get smarks in with the anti-WWE gimmick.

[Matt D]

I didn't NECESSARILY say it as a "bad" thing. It's working people. This time, instead of getting them to pay to see the local hero (Let's say David Von Erich) finally defeat the shifty, shady champion (Let's go with Harley Race), you're having them pay to see the modern day heroes of Hot Topic, Trolling, and Triforces on Boots (Who are just like them!) defeat the evil of Dave Meltzer's old man doubts and Vince McMahon's Roman Reigns pushing out-of-touchnness.

 

It's wrestling.

 

I mean, I guess?

[FMKK]

Btw, there's a UK indy that seems reliant almost entirely on ex-WWE and TNA imports that is running an 8,000 seat area near me with prices that are in the same range as the WWE house show coming two months later. It's nice to see the ambition but it's seems like a bit of a stretch.

[FMKK]

I didn't NECESSARILY say it as a "bad" thing. It's working people. This time, instead of getting them to pay to see the local hero (Let's say David Von Erich) finally defeat the shifty, shady champion (Let's go with Harley Race), you're having them pay to see the modern day heroes of Hot Topic, Trolling, and Triforces on Boots (Who are just like them!) defeat the evil of Dave Meltzer's old man doubts and Vince McMahon's Roman Reigns pushing out-of-touchnness.

 

It's wrestling.

 

I mean, I guess?

Meta booking reaching its apex

[sek69]

I don't see it as them "sticking it to Dave" as much as them seeing it as a goal to try to achive. I'm not really into Cody as an act post WWE, but you can't deny his hustle as of late. Him and the Bucks are probably the best shot anyone has at putting together something that could hit 10k, as it seems like everything the Bucks do turns golden.

[Boss Rock]

I really admire the ambition and think it would be really cool if an indy could pull a number like that, but I don't see it happening unless they get Bryan, Punk, or both.

[FMKK]

I really admire the ambition and think it would be really cool if an indy could pull a number like that, but I don't see it happening unless they get Bryan, Punk, or both.

And even then I think it would have to be a major market, which increases the cost of venue hire.

 

Tbh, Cody better start hoping that Steve Austin somehow owed his dad an unfulfilled favour or some shit.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I'm there if it's in Chicago.

[Cox]

Their best chance at doing this would be if they could book a 10,000 seat arena during Wrestlemania weekend but my guess is that's likely impossible. With 60,000+ wrestling fans in town already, it would be more conceivable to find a way to get 10,000 into the building than any other weekend, when they would have to travel specifically to see one show. My guess is they probably won't be able to do that.

 

That said, even though I don't really like the Bucks or Cody, I hope this is successful. I don't know if I'd like their vision of wrestling (I suspect I wouldn't) but it would be nice to see a successful US based wrestling promotion in the year 2017 that isn't WWE. I'm not even a WWE hater, but they've felt so stale for so long, even when the in-ring has been good to great. If you look at how wrestling was presented in the 80's to the 2000's, it felt like there was a real evolution. 1981 is very different from 1988, which is different from 1995, which is different from 2002. But has wrestling drastically changed in the past 15 years? WWE has dominated the US, and their show looks identical now, albeit with a much more toned down product. TNA tried for years to replace WCW, with much smaller viewership but with more of the incompetence. ROH has grown but has only recently solidified themselves as the #2 group.

 

WWE has more good workers now than they have had at any point and yet, the product feels so stale because it has stayed so safe. They need a threat, however small, to kick themselves in the ass and freshen things up. I'm not sure if the Bullet Club are the thing that will accomplish that, but even though I mostly don't like any of them (Hangman Page is OK, and I'll never hate on a Tongan), I hope they find success for the good of the US wrestling scene.

[Matt D]

This isn't a promotion though; it's Woodstock 1999.

[Laz]

I think they'd do well if they look at the current US wrestling scene and try to deviate. Bullet Club merch is carried in a prime retailer for wrestling's favorite demographic ("rebellious" teenagers), making them instantly cool to a sizable audience, and what better way to draw those little Manic Panic shits in than by saying "this ain't TVPG WWE"?

 

That said, teenagers don't travel very far, and today's youth care more about sharing virtual experiences than actively pursuing them in the flesh. Best bet? As others have said, push hard with NJPW talent, try to get Punk to make a return in Chicago, try Bryan, and BUY ALL THE ADS.

 

Seriously. So many shows, even stuff on the level of ROH, try to get by with word-of-mouth and/or tired media. Hanging a few posters beneath the missing (and likely dead) cat won't cut it, taking to Twitter won't cut it, grow up and buy some TV ad time and some radio space.

[NintendoLogic]

I want to say there have been some big-drawing lucha libre shows in the U.S. post-WCW. What was the one with Santo that drew 5K?

Someone on the F4W board mentioned a show in Atlanta with LA Park that drew 6500. Can anyone vouch for this?

[Eduardo]

I think Kris Zellner has had talked about that Atlanta show.

In the past month I've gone to a ROH and local lucha libre show that have legitimately drawn around 1200-1500 each. The lucha show was built around Penta and Fenix, while the ROH show was built around Kenny Omega's first San Antonio appearance.

I wish them luck but 10K sounds unlikely. I like that they are attempting this though and hope they do great. Penta, Fenix, and Rey Mysterio Jr. could help the card out a lot.

Funniest outcome would be if they announce attendance as 10K, and Dave Meltzer goes on Twitter to say it was 8,800 fans or something. All hell would break lose on Twitter. But overall, pretty interested in seeing how this all plays out.