WWE TV 10/15/18 - 10/21/18: Fear, Loathing, and PRACTICE!!

[Jmare007]

2 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I can't wait for Roman's career retrospective in 15 years where he tells the story of having to prove management wrong and he really was a star after all. 

WWE's version of Political Hit Theory will be can't miss fuckery. Would be cool if Dylan gets to show up on the Network special about it.

[hammerva]

2 hours ago, Charles (Loss) said:

Um ... Edge was handpicked to be a star from the beginning of his time in WWE. I guess the story now is that everyone who had success had to do it by defying management.

That wasn't the least of the issues I had with Edge's promo.   So let's break down why Becky can't end up being like Edge in the long run:

A.  She will end up all alone just staring at the titles on the wall .  Edge is actually married so he must be talking about the time Beth is announcing

B.  Apparently Edge stabbed everyone in the back in order to get to where he was in the business.  Well I mean I guess that was true for Matt Hardy but he is still friends with Christian.  In fact correct me if I am wrong but didn't Christian stab Edge in the back.  So maybe the argument should have been you don't want to turn on Charlotte or you will end being a nothing low card guy

 

[FMKK]

6 hours ago, Charles (Loss) said:

The whole thing is funny to me mainly because "they saw me as a future star right away and eventually I got there" is admittedly kinda dry. But the line about having to overcome management perceptions leans into the idea that WWE sees everyone as having no potential before they are proven wrong. (You have to wonder why they hire anyone.) Surely, at least one person in WWE history has had a run where the company sees big potential right away, then they're proven right and all is well.

That was the Randy Orton narrative earlier in the show

[Big Pete]

The WWE has been pulling this kind of stuff for years. HHH based his entire main event gimmick on being 'held down' because he didn't get the opportunity to win King of the Ring. Like that would have helped him in '96. Don't get me wrong either, HHH was clearly one of the most promising guys on the roster and bumped better than most guys, but for him there was nothing wrong with taking the back-streets.

From the day he tried out, Edge was slated to be a star. Cornette supposedly told everyone in ear-shot they had the next Ric Flair and they gave him a huge push right off the bat. It's a credit to WWF creative back then that everyone forgets how much it flopped because he quickly faded into the Brood who got over in small doses. Still, you could see the agenda manifest itself on TV. Edge started accumulating these tiny moments that made him stand out like the Brood segment on the pilot edition of SmackDown. Gangrel was supposed to be the mouthpiece but completely stumbled on his promo to absolute crickets. Then Edge busted out this nursery rhyme that got over and suddenly he became the face of the group. A little while later he nails Jeff Hardy with the best spear tackle of his career (King of the Ring '99) and suddenly he's got an Intercontinental Championship shot at Fully Loaded. Watching Edge's short singles run in '99 made me realise how little has changed over the years. Long hair, coming through the crowd, stoic demeanor, big spear finish - it was '99 Roman Reigns.

I'm sure in 2004-05 there was a push from another long-blonde headed fellow to keep Edge down (or make him get a haircut like the other Canadians), but to be fair he had a point. Edge was a sub-par babyface and merely a solid heel. It wasn't until they brought Lita into the act and the Matt Hardy story leaked that the fans really took to Edge. Again, look at how Matt Hardy was treated after the angle was over and convince anyone that it wasn't done to benefit one guy.

In complete fairness after that, Edge was one of the better elements on the show and while they went crazy trying to make him the new kayfabe Ric Flair (11 x WWE/World Champion) he usually played the role well. Also, he's by far one of the better returning legends and usually makes a point to put over the current talent, whether it's Christian, Seth Rollins or Becky Lynch.

[DMJ]

Maybe this belongs in the microscope, but I'll post it here and it can be moved if it fits...

I'm not an Edge fan (though, I'm also not super anti-Edge the way some here are), but I'd say that he did actually prove his value over time and that, while the company was behind him from the beginning, he was pushed the way Triple H should've been pushed more than as a guy that was pushed past his level of overness. As many people have said, Triple H was "a guy who worked with the guy who made money." Edge was the same...only they tried to push HHH as more than that and I don't think they ever did with Edge. 

Also, I know one knock against Edge has been that he's a guy that excelled in gimmick matches and I'd agree wholeheartedly that he was. But its also worth mentioning that during his run, gimmick matches were super common, especially on PPV. I mean, yeah, he's not Bobby Eaton, he was not a great mechanic - but he had the luck/happenstance to arrive and perform during a time when the style he was best at (big gimmick matches) were the bread n' butter of nearly every PPV. There were loads of guys like Randy Orton who existed at the same time and, in my opinion, under-performed in the same match types. So, yeah, Edge benefitted from having plenty of TLC in his matches, but if that made things "easier" for him to get over, why do I like his matches more than Orton's? More than Kane's? More than Del Rio's? More than Triple H's post-2000 or so? Even Angle (I guy I'm higher than on than many here) never really stole the show in a gimmick match the way Edge did in some of his gimmick matches, which I often found pretty entertaining even if the psychology was stupid. 

In summation, I'd take Cena/Edge in a TLC match over any Cena/Orton match. I liked the Edge/Taker feud more than any HHH/Taker match. If Edge-haters whole argument is that he was only good in "gimmick matches," that's fair, but how many pure technical masterpieces were/are happening these days? Gimmick matches are kind of the WWE's "thing" and have been for a long awhile. 

[sek69]

Edge was also good at getting over in vastly different gimmicks/roles. He started off as the loner vampire heartthrob in the Brood and was the star of that group in no time. Then he was doing the wacky goofball team with Christian that was also able to kick ass in TLC matches and got over big there. Finally he was the mega asshole heel who practically cuckolded Matt Hardy on live TV and that was arguably the best run he had. 

[DMJ]

Yeah, and I was gonna make this an edit on my post (which was overlong to begin with but I've had a few Lagunitas Born Yesterday) - 

Its important to remember that Edge debuted in June 98', when WWE was still in competition with WCW. In hindsight, the competition was over, but at the time, WWE was still in "throw shit against the wall and see what sticks" mode. They were still running the NWA angle with the New Midnight Express and Dan Severn at King of the Ring 98'. Edge was a new guy, with a good look (arguably a rip-off of Raven), and they invested in him and, as sek69 said, he got progressively over in various angles/storylines. He wasn't a super worker, but geez, if you look at his career and think Seth Rollins has had a more entertaining WWE run than Edge did, I don't know where your argument begins. 

[Strummer]

I remember at new millennium blues when all that went down with Edge, Lita and Cena in early 2006 a bunch of people were arguing that the ratings bump was a fluke and Edge really had nothing to do with it.  I can remember people claiming Flair (yeah people forget he was involved in this angle, Edge was feuding with him and Cena at the same time basically) and Lita were bumping the numbers.  Nearly 13 years later I don't think it's *that*  outrageous to say the people were ready for a new fresh heel on top.  But I don't think it was until the Foley program a few months later where he was firmly established in the top mix

[sek69]

Kinda not TV related, but I had to mention WWE clanging out another PR misfire by posting photos of Dana Warrior decked out in pink Ultimate Warrior facepaint to stand up against bullying and for the LGBT community. You could tell someone on the social media team must have known that it was a bad idea since they didn't even tag her directly in the post. 

[Coffey]

17 hours ago, Strummer said:

I remember at new millennium blues when all that went down with Edge, Lita and Cena in early 2006 a bunch of people were arguing that the ratings bump was a fluke and Edge really had nothing to do with it.  I can remember people claiming Flair (yeah people forget he was involved in this angle, Edge was feuding with him and Cena at the same time basically) and Lita were bumping the numbers. 

 

[...TG]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Kinda not TV related, but I had to mention WWE clanging out another PR misfire by posting photos of Dana Warrior decked out in pink Ultimate Warrior facepaint to stand up against bullying and for the LGBT community. You could tell someone on the social media team must have known that it was a bad idea since they didn't even tag her directly in the post. 

They've been doing this since he died. For whatever reason, the mainstream in general doesn't particularly care about all that awful shit said by Warrior. Same with AJ Styles when he was signed by WWE - I figured that rant of his about the "gay community" would go viral but it just didn't catch on. 

[NintendoLogic]

I actually kind of like the idea of honoring Warrior by celebrating people he had nothing but contempt for during his lifetime. It's like they're putting his memory to good use by undoing his life's work.

[El-P]

Considering their own sets of "ethics", it's totally not that. It's just them doing charity PR using the name of a god-awful human being who was famous in his post-wrestling years for his hate speeches. Undoing his life's work would have been to produce a DVD to shit on the guy and tell the story of how big a failure he was at his job.

(apart from being the wife of a hate-filled steroid idiot, what the fuck did Dana "Warrior" (seriously) do to warrant any attention to begin with anyway ?)

[Strummer]

Dodgers doing crotch chops during tonight's game.  Guess the old generation is still more over! 

[Johnny Sorrow]

7 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

I actually kind of like the idea of honoring Warrior by celebrating people he had nothing but contempt for during his lifetime. It's like they're putting his memory to good use by undoing his life's work.

I agree 100 percent. Fuck that guy. I'm willing to deal with beliefs and stances that are abhorrent from great performers, like Dick Murdoch or early Woody Allen, but Warrior?  Who cares what they do with his dumb name, whatever they do will be better than anything he did with it. He stunk.

[SteveJRogers]

On 10/19/2018 at 6:49 PM, DMJ said:

Edge was a new guy, with a good look (arguably a rip-off of Raven), and they invested in him 

FWIW, I recently watched Edge's "I HATE YOU!" promo segment on Cena (Cutting Edge segment one Raw after a big Cena title win) and I couldn't help but notice how it was almost like a different spin on the reasoning behind the Raven-Dreamer "fight forever" sort of rivalry.  Only sans fighting over the same girl and bad emo poetry.

Edge, despite all he's accomplished to that point (he has some reigns at that point) was still that goth looking teen lashing out at the jocks who bullied him in school (or any social settings as I think it was at a summer camp that ignited Raven's hatred of Tommy Dreamer) years ago. 

And I think that's kind of how "I fought for all I have accomplished, despite certain people not wanting me to get this far" got added to the Rated R Superstar/Ultimate Opportunist character, especially if you want to see the Cena character, especially back in 2006-2010, as the ultimate jock that "got everything handed to him" and acts like he just hit a triple, despite being born on third base.