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I was actually just thinking the other day, on what would have happened if Brody wasn't killed in PR. I'm guessing most likely he'd have wound up in FMW, and then W*ING, IWA, etc. Baba wasn't shy with casting legends aside to make room for fresher acts. As far as the US goes, Vince wouldn't have been dumb enough to take him on, but you can be sure one of WCW's rotating nitwits would have signed him eventually.

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Wasn't there some backstage story with Bruiser Brody and WWE?

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Wasn't there some backstage story with Bruiser Brody and WWE?

 

 

I thought it was just basically Vince Sr. didn't like his act and never booked him.

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Wasn't there some backstage story with Bruiser Brody and WWE?

 

 

I thought it was just basically Vince Sr. didn't like his act and never booked him.

 

Brody had a run against Bruno Sammartino in 1976/77.

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I was actually just thinking the other day, on what would have happened if Brody wasn't killed in PR. I'm guessing most likely he'd have wound up in FMW, and then W*ING, IWA, etc.

He probably would have had a cup of coffee in FMW. I doubt that Brody would have had a mindset to put over the former All Japan prelim boy who was the Franchise.

 

Wing and IWA were later, and not exactly goldmine paydays. They also would have wanted him to make their stars look good.

 

On thing that people forget is that Native vs. Native hit its stride after Brody died. Onita could make great bank opposite Pogo for years, and Tenryu in the short run. Who needs to deal with the headache of an asshole like Brody when you can make as much money, while paying *less*, for a Pogo?

 

 

Baba wasn't shy with casting legends aside to make room for fresher acts.

The question would be whether Brody would have left with Tenryu to SWS.

 

I'm not sure if there would be anything prior to the AJPW-SWS split that would have made Baba bounce Brody, other than Brody being an asshole.

 

Brody would likely have only worked 3 series total in 1988 with All Japan. He only worked one prior to his death - July 17, 1988. That was the March-April tour. Obviously he would have been back for the Tag League if he was on his best behavoir. There also was talk (Dave in the obit, and often since) that Baba wanted to book a Brody-Hansen for the 8/29/88 Budokan, which turned out to be the "Bruiser Brody Memorial" show. That would be the third tour.

 

1989 would probably have been similar. These were the days before it became common for gaijin to work every series, or every show of every series. Even Hansen in these days wasn't working every series and every show (one of the various myths in the Funk book was the item on Baba wanting Terry fulltime in 1985 - just didn't happen in that era).

 

Tenryu was throwing around the cash when he left. By that point, if Brody hadn't worked with the WWF (which I have doubts about), we're talking about a 44 year old man who'd been a vagabond in the business for close to six years. It might have been hard for him to resist the offer.

 

On the other hand, if he stayed in All Japan, where does he fit in? Baba clearly loved the push of Misawa up to be Jumbo's top rival. While Hansen got pushed hard and taken care of, the primary focus of the company was even more clearly off the natives than it had been in the Jumbo-Tenryu feud. In addition, Baba had other favorites bubbling up in Taue, Kobashi and even pre-doghouse Kawada. Hansen, Gordy and Williams made them look far better than Brody ever let young natives of their age look in the past. (That's not to say that Stan sold his ass off like a bumping fool for them - just that he sold vastly more and better for them than Brody had a track record for).

 

But... it does come back to Misawa. Would Brody at 44-46 have been willing to make a kid who he saw break in as a job boy carrying his luggage look good and put him over?

 

I don't think so.

 

If he didn't instantly jump to SWS, he would have pulled the Kabuki-Yatsu move of jumping later. They jumped after Misawa took off the mask and was aimed at Jumbo. Much like seeing the handwritting on the wall with Choshu's Army and the Road Warriors in 1985 in All Japan, which led Brody to jumping.

 

As far as the US goes, Vince wouldn't have been dumb enough to take him on, but you can be sure one of WCW's rotating nitwits would have signed him eventually.

Dave often talks about Vince taking him on for a run against Hogan. I'm not sold. When after July 1988 would this have taken place? And why would Vince have thought he needed Brody rather than someone else he ran at Hogan? I just don't see it.

 

As far as WCW, who running WCW at any point would have thought to bring in Brody? Dusty could have brought him into Crockett from 1985-88 if he wanted to. What makes one think he would have in the 90s? Did Ole have any love for Brody?

 

Flair as booker bringing in Brody? He brought in Steamer, then went to Funk. If one wants to say "after Funk" in late 1989 and early 1990, one needs to remember that the Horsemen were turning on Sting to set up Flair-Sting. Which Herd wanted to see as the begining of the Sting Era. Brody doesn't fit into Flair's era as booker.

 

Watts? Watts didn't seem to be using him when he had his own promotion, at least not by the 1985-87 period. One would think that Brody's brawling style would fit in. I would take it that by that point Watts didn't want much to do with him.

 

Bischoff? When?

 

Dave has talked several times about how Brody would have cashed in during the Monday Night Wars. I don't buy that. Brody would have turned 50 in 1996. Unlike the other oldtimers who made money in that era (like Flair, Piper, Hogan, Savage, etc.), Brody had no cha-ching in the 80s with the WWF or Crockett. He wasn't even like Superfly, who had been a WWF Superstar under Vince from 1982-85 before getting bounced.

 

I don't see why Vince or Eric would be spending money on a 50 year old who meant nothing to them.

 

It's more likely that Brody would have had a vagabond existance like Abby. The difference is that Abby didn't seem to piss people off as much as Brody.

 

There's as much mythmaking on "Post-Death, What If" Brody as there is on the real Brody. People, including Dave, mark rather than bothering to slow down and think things through.

 

 

John

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The one thing about the Monday night Wars is that WCW would pick guys up if they even thought WWF might have been interested. Brody might have picked up one of those Lanny Poffo contracts where WCW never intends to use him but didn't want the competition to have him either.

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Dave often talks about Vince taking him on for a run against Hogan. I'm not sold. When after July 1988 would this have taken place? And why would Vince have thought he needed Brody rather than someone else he ran at Hogan? I just don't see it.

 

The only time I can see for that to happen, would have been in the Summer of 1990, with Brody in Earthquake's place. Warrior was bombing as WWF Champion, and Hogan vs. Brody would surely have been a drawing card.

 

Flair as booker bringing in Brody? He brought in Steamer, then went to Funk. If one wants to say "after Funk" in late 1989 and early 1990, one needs to remember that the Horsemen were turning on Sting to set up Flair-Sting. Which Herd wanted to see as the begining of the Sting Era. Brody doesn't fit into Flair's era as booker.

Herd and Frye were both clueless about the business. I could see Herd bringing him in to get Sting over after Sid and the Black Scorpion flopped. On paper, it would sound better to Herd than going back to Flair. Not that Brody wouldn't have screwed that up. And Frye was known to love throwing money around. Brody could probably have sold himself as a big international star and gotten himself a deal. And again, Brody would have most likely screwed it up in short order.

 

Watts? Watts didn't seem to be using him when he had his own promotion, at least not by the 1985-87 period. One would think that Brody's brawling style would fit in. I would take it that by that point Watts didn't want much to do with him.

Good point there, I'm sure Watts would have been smart enough to avoid the hassle. Of course one possible reason for Brody not working Mid South could be that Brody and Fritz were pretty tight.

 

Bischoff? When?

Anytime after Bischoff took over until he brought in Hogan. As soon as Brody mentioned that Vince "wanted him for a run against Hogan," you can bet Uncle Eric would do all he could to get Brody under a contract.

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Yeah, I could see Brody having a cup of coffee in WCW in the mid 1990s when Hogan was at his height of his political power, as he was the big star of the 80s that he never got to beat. A bit like how he brought the Warrior in, in 1998, just so he could get his job back. It probably would have turned out to be a farce of similar proportions.

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To me it's pretty obvious that Brody would have ended up in ECW feuding with Sabu, Funk and/or Foley. That would have been his springboard to WCW or WWF. At worst, he'd be making a decent living in the indies like Abdullah.

 

He was an asshole but this is pro wrestling and he had a big name. Even Tiger Jeet Singh got tons of chances and nostalgia runs for pretty good payoffs in the Japanese indies, and he wasn't about to put over Onita in FMW, or whatever 80s IWE/AJ castoffs the IWA or W*ING was booking.

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By the time the Monday Night Wars would have started, Brody would have been 50-52 years old. Who's to say Brody would have been wrestling full-time by then?

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The only time I can see for that to happen, would have been in the Summer of 1990, with Brody in Earthquake's place. Warrior was bombing as WWF Champion, and Hogan vs. Brody would surely have been a drawing card.

 

I'm not sure how Brody was a given as a strong drawing card. WWF was running cartoon stuff at the time.

 

Quake squashed Hogan in a stretcher type job, put him out for months, and led to that hold "Get Well Hulk Wrist Band" nonsense.

 

So how does Brody top that?

 

Vince wouldn't have booked Brody to juice the crap out of Hogan, especially not after NBC bitched about the juice in the Bossman-Hogan match. So he uses the chain and barks a lot? For all the talk about Brody on the mic, he really wasn't all that great in a WWF way (Savage, for example, was exceptional). So you put Brody with Heenan? Again, I don't see that working.

 

 

Herd and Frye were both clueless about the business. I could see Herd bringing him in to get Sting over after Sid and the Black Scorpion flopped. On paper, it would sound better to Herd than going back to Flair. Not that Brody wouldn't have screwed that up. And Frye was known to love throwing money around. Brody could probably have sold himself as a big international star and gotten himself a deal. And again, Brody would have most likely screwed it up in short order.

After Scorp flopped, they went back to Flair. Dusty got the book around the AZ Wargames PPV in Feb 1991 when Ole got the boot. I'm not sold that Dusty would have brought him in. Certainly not to face Flair with Flair as a face. By that point Herd was looking for a face to get the belt off of Flair, and that face's name was Lex after Sting bombed.

 

I don't see Frye or Watts using Brody at all. They had Vader. Brody rather than Jake against Sting? Watts had history with Jake in Mid-South, and Jake went on to be a WWF Superstar. Do you really think Bill would have asked 46 year old Brody in? For even an extended period?

 

 

Anytime after Bischoff took over until he brought in Hogan. As soon as Brody mentioned that Vince "wanted him for a run against Hogan," you can bet Uncle Eric would do all he could to get Brody under a contract.

Vader was champ from 12/92 to 12/93. I don't see Eric bringing in 46/47 year old Brody as a monster heel on top when he had Vader than then brought Sid back in the middle of 1993. WCW had a boner for Sid, and he'd also "headlined" Mania against Hogan He was a "Superstar", while old man Brody would have been an indy wrestler at the point.

 

I don't think WCW and the WWF would have looked at Brody any differently than they did Abby, another indy "star" of the late 80s and early 90s. Abby had a cup of coffer with WCW, and nothing with the WWF.

 

I think Brody Fans project onto WCW and Vince their own fantasies.

 

 

John

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I can't comment about Brody's abilities as a worker. I can tell you that until I found the internet, I was still a bit knowledgeable as a mark thanks to the PWI mags. I had no idea Brody was any kind of star.

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I can't comment about Brody's abilities as a worker. I can tell you that until I found the internet, I was still a bit knowledgeable as a mark thanks to the PWI mags. I had no idea Brody was any kind of star.

 

I've been ignoring this thread so far because I've just come to accept that jdw's hatred of Brody is a bizarre point of pride for him and I already know there's no way he'll listen to anything positive I have to say about the man, his matches, his career, or his legacy. So, why waste my time?

 

This, though... you just don't have your facts straight here, Al. If you were getting your "knowledge" from PWI, you would certainly have been aware that Brody was a star. Before the PWI 500 was an annual huge issue, they used to run a more reasonable top 50. Brody got the number one spot in either '84 or '85. In 1988, he was given the Stan Weston award, which is PWI's highest honour. They ranked him #14 overall in their list of the top singles wrestlers of the PWI years, and his tag team with Stan Hansen was ranked as the #7 team of the PWI years. The editors of PWI flat out love Bruiser Brody.

 

If you're going to hate, fine, go ahead and hate. If you're going to use "I've read a lot of PWI" as the basis for claiming to know a lot about wrestling... well, good luck with that. If you're going to use "I've read a lot of PWI" as a basis for claiming Brody wasn't a star... well, you've just proven yourself an idiot or a liar... possibly both.

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I can't comment about Brody's abilities as a worker. I can tell you that until I found the internet, I was still a bit knowledgeable as a mark thanks to the PWI mags. I had no idea Brody was any kind of star.

 

I've been ignoring this thread so far because I've just come to accept that jdw's hatred of Brody is a bizarre point of pride for him and I already know there's no way he'll listen to anything positive I have to say about the man, his matches, his career, or his legacy. So, why waste my time?

 

This, though... you just don't have your facts straight here, Al. If you were getting your "knowledge" from PWI, you would certainly have been aware that Brody was a star. Before the PWI 500 was an annual huge issue, they used to run a more reasonable top 50. Brody got the number one spot in either '84 or '85. In 1988, he was given the Stan Weston award, which is PWI's highest honour. They ranked him #14 overall in their list of the top singles wrestlers of the PWI years, and his tag team with Stan Hansen was ranked as the #7 team of the PWI years. The editors of PWI flat out love Bruiser Brody.

 

If you're going to hate, fine, go ahead and hate. If you're going to use "I've read a lot of PWI" as the basis for claiming to know a lot about wrestling... well, good luck with that. If you're going to use "I've read a lot of PWI" as a basis for claiming Brody wasn't a star... well, you've just proven yourself an idiot or a liar... possibly both.

 

You were going find until that last line. A personal attack is really unnecessary and uncalled for. The Stanley Weston award is commonly given posthumously, so there's no surprise Brody won that. The PWI 500 of the "PWI years" was assisted by Dave Meltzer, so Brody's placement there is no surprise. Beyond that, I have no personal agenda regarding Bruiser Brody. He died two years before I became a fan. All I'm saying is that outside of the "smart" fans, no one seemed to talk up Bruiser Brody to a huge degree. His premature death was a tragedy, but so were the Von Erichs, Gino Hernandez, etc.

 

I suspect Brody's abilities as an in-ring worker are understated in this thread. However, I don't think he was a huge star in the U.S., or at least would not have been in the '90s.

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I'm not sure how Brody was a given as a strong drawing card. WWF was running cartoon stuff at the time.

 

Quake squashed Hogan in a stretcher type job, put him out for months, and led to that hold "Get Well Hulk Wrist Band" nonsense.

 

So how does Brody top that?

WWF wasn't shy about occasionally breaking kayfabe in a sense, even back in those days. Just look at the reactions from Heenan and Monsoon when Flair debuted in '91 and Ellering joined the LOD in '92. While they didn't go right out and say "He's from WCW!" they didn't mind acknowledging that he was famous elsewhere.

 

Brody wouldn't have had to juice Hogan to get himself over, or get his feud with Hogan over. He could have easily hung him with the chain. It worked for Steamboat and Muraco.

 

After Scorp flopped, they went back to Flair.

 

And as I already said: Bringing in Brody to feud with Sting would sound better on paper than having to go crawling back to Ric Flair.

 

I don't see Frye or Watts using Brody at all. They had Vader. Brody rather than Jake against Sting? Watts had history with Jake in Mid-South, and Jake went on to be a WWF Superstar. Do you really think Bill would have asked 46 year old Brody in? For even an extended period?

Probably not Watts. And again, Brody could probably have gotten a deal based of selling himself to Frye as being an international star. Brody would have been a good fit with Harley's stable, and Brody did work in St. Louis from time to time.

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I read the hell out of some PWI as a kid and I don't recall Brody being protrayed as a star...of course I didn't start reading those mags till 87/88 so...

 

Yeah, they tended to write more about him while he was alive. You started reading the mag around the time I stopped... That Best of the PWI Years Issue was an interesting one, though. I still enjoy the odd special issue, and the PWI 500 can be a fun read.

 

 

 

You were going find until that last line. A personal attack is really unnecessary and uncalled for.

 

You're right. I was in a pissy mood about something unrelated to anything going on here... There was no real reason to take it out on you. Apologies all around.

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Gord is right about PWI covering him more when he was alive. I probably stopped reading it around the same time Brody died as well.

 

Also, while jdw is a Brody-hater, he isn't the only one in this thread that has criticized his ability.

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Gord is right about PWI covering him more when he was alive. I probably stopped reading it around the same time Brody died as well.

 

Also, while jdw is a Brody-hater, he isn't the only one in this thread that has criticized his ability.

 

 

No... but he started it. ;)

 

jdw and I have already had our Brody argument during the Smarkschoice GWE poll, but here's the crux of what I believe:

 

Yes, Brody has been wildly overrated by a number of commentators over the years. That doesn't, however, mean that he sucks. The backlash against him has gone too far. Matches like the 12/83 RWTL with Stan Hansen vs. Tenryu and Jumbo, and the 12/81 RWTL with Snuka vs. The Funks, and 1/85 vs. Flair, and 3/88 vs. Jumbo don't just happen by accident. Brody wasn't dragged kicking and screaming to a few decent matches in his career, when he was motivated and working with someone he respected, he could hold up his end of a great match.

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The wierd thing is that he matches you mentioned (except the Jumbo match which I have not seen) aren't really brawls. The Funks tag was a traditional tag until Hansen's interference. The Flair match had some brawling but was usually in the ring with attempts at holds. It also does not help that everyone mentioned in the above matches have had better mathes with so many other opponents (except mayabe Snuka although he has had better brawls than Brody) it doesn't really make Brody better in my eyes.

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The wierd thing is that he matches you mentioned (except the Jumbo match which I have not seen) aren't really brawls. The Funks tag was a traditional tag until Hansen's interference. The Flair match had some brawling but was usually in the ring with attempts at holds. It also does not help that everyone mentioned in the above matches have had better mathes with so many other opponents (except mayabe Snuka although he has had better brawls than Brody) it doesn't really make Brody better in my eyes.

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to argue that those are the four greatest matches ever, nor am trying to argue that Brody is the greatest anything of his era. All I'm saying is that Brody is nowhere near as bad as the backlash makes him out to be. He's a damn good old school big man with a great look and persona for his era who has participated in several very good matches and a handful of excellent ones.

 

Maybe that doesn't make him better in your eyes because you already know that. Some people posting here have apparently been fighting the "Brody is the Greatest Brawler Ever" line of nonsense so hard for so long that they can't even acknowledge that much about him.

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This, though... you just don't have your facts straight here, Al. If you were getting your "knowledge" from PWI, you would certainly have been aware that Brody was a star. Before the PWI 500 was an annual huge issue, they used to run a more reasonable top 50. Brody got the number one spot in either '84 or '85. In 1988, he was given the Stan Weston award, which is PWI's highest honour. They ranked him #14 overall in their list of the top singles wrestlers of the PWI years, and his tag team with Stan Hansen was ranked as the #7 team of the PWI years. The editors of PWI flat out love Bruiser Brody.

I don't recall Brody ever getting a #1 spot in PWI. I had most of the 1983-89 issues of their various mags before pitching them after getting the WON.

 

Brody got the same push as most major 1984-85 Flair opponents. A cover or two with Flair in the picture.

 

The Weston award happened to be given when Brody was killed. That often was the reason folks got the award - dying.

 

 

If you're going to hate, fine, go ahead and hate. If you're going to use "I've read a lot of PWI" as the basis for claiming to know a lot about wrestling... well, good luck with that. If you're going to use "I've read a lot of PWI" as a basis for claiming Brody wasn't a star... well, you've just proven yourself an idiot or a liar... possibly both.

 

I would put it this way:

 

Lex Luger got a vastly bigger and more sustained push in 1986-87 than I ever saw Brody get.

 

Brody's pushes would be about as big as Lawler's (i.e. a regional guy), but far less consistent since Jerry constantly had some storyline going in Memphis. Brody would just zone out of coverage for months on end.

 

 

John

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I don't recall Brody ever getting a #1 spot in PWI. I had most of the 1983-89 issues of their various mags before pitching them after getting the WON.

 

 

Are you calling me a liar, John?

 

I wish I still had all those old mags. It would be a gas to read them now.

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I can back up Gordi on Brody getting a #1 spot. An edition of "WRESTLING SUPERSTARS" which I think was one of PWI's quarterly mags, put out a top 50 list in one of their '86 editions and ranked him #1. An issue of Wrestling 86 contains an interview with Brody where that fact is brought up.

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