All Elite Wrestling

[Strummer]

I think I mentioned this here last year but Dave talking about Shawn, Flair. Bret, Steamboat,etc like they are no big deal compared to the guys today will never not be strange.  Geez, Dave

[El-P]

I have absolutely zero issue with the idea of Omega > Steamboat, at the very least as far as peak goes. It also totally makes sense from Meltz perspective if you consider his ratings (agree or disagree with him).

Also, now I can picture real life Bayley as Krusty the Clown, and it's pretty funny.

[Herodes]

I despise everything about AEW already and genuinely hope it fails.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

Watched Before the Bell: the story of All Elite Wrestling on ITV 1 last night. It was on just before midnight, so not exactly prime time, but the fact it was on the 2nd most watched TV channel here in the UK and on a channel available to everyone in the country with a TV set means that hopefully this will translate into some traction. The pre-show will be on ITV 4 tonight, a less watched channel, but still one readily available on a free platform so it will be really interesting to see how many people choose to purchase it through ITV Box Office. Feels like there's a real chance for them to make a noise in the UK, given that TNA back in the day managed to build themselves a pretty decent fanbase for a while here off the back of being on a channel called Challenge that was much more accessible than WWE being on Sky Sports.

As for the show itself, viewing it as someone who watched All In, but who doesn't watch BTE, I'd say it wasn't the most focused package I've seen, jumping around a lot, but then it was trying to be both a preview of the matches and a history of how AEW has come into being in just 45 mins so willing to cut them some slack. I also enjoyed the way they were building up the matches, making it appear much more realistic in terms of people's motivations than WWE is currently doing. I've long argued, along with many others here, that there's actually too much wrestling on wrestling TV shows, and that big matches should be built to with video packages, promos and documentaries. On this level I enjoyed it. There also seemed to be a consistent story going in for people like Kenny and the Bucks that they had got off their game by sitting in offices and doing paper work (an amusing image) rather than getting out there round the world like for example the Lucha Bros.

Overall, I'm willing these guys to succeed tonight and then for AEW to succeed, whether it ends up being something that I enjoy from wrestling or not. I know people are already taking sides - we live in a very polarised world where everything is either amazing or terrible - but as someone that has basically checked out of WWE and their presentation in wrestling since last years Mania, an alternative way of presenting pro-wrestling seems so, so important.      

[FMKK]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

I have absolutely zero issue with the idea of Omega > Steamboat, at the very least as far as peak goes. It also totally makes sense from Meltz perspective if you consider his ratings (agree or disagree with him).

Also, now I can picture real life Bayley as Krusty the Clown, and it's pretty funny.

I think he meant as a star though, which is just silly

[The Thread Killer]

From where I sit, two things Omega and Steamboat have in common are a natural athleticism and a problem at times with goofy, theatrical overselling.  Steamboat always looked like he was playing to the cheap seats, even during TV matches when there were a lot of close-ups.  Don't even get me started on Omega's outlandish facial expressions which are so campy and downright goofy that they have taken me right out of a match on more than one occasion - which seems to be the exact opposite of the assumed intention. 

If somebody is going to compare the two (which in itself is really a pointless exercise, I'll admit) it all comes down to body of work.  Steamboat has an elite level resume (pardon the pun) while Omega isn't anywhere close to that yet.  I know people like to compare the Okada/Omega Trilogy to the Flair/Steamboat Trilogy, which is fine I guess.  I don't see it at all, but whatever.  But bottom line, Omega doesn't have anywhere near the body of work that Steamboat does - nor should he be expected to at this point - so comparing the two seems pointless and intended to troll old school fans who don't care for the modern "PWG" style.

[El-P]

Okada vs Omega trilogy blows away Steamboat vs Flair seven ways to Sunday in my book. There's both a generational and perspective gap. The first is people living in the past, because it's comforting. The second is people giving way too much credit to the all-mighty "canon", because, well, it's comforting too. I for one have made the switch sometime somewhere when I was watching Lucha Underground. Funny to re-read some of the early stuff I wrote about it (just like the stuff I wrote first time I saw Omega or the Young Bucks, and even Will Ospreay). I totally changed my perspective and embraced what is happening now (and that I like, of course, tons of stuff happening now I don't care about, put WWE or ROH in this bag for instance). Anway, Omega helping packed some of the biggest house in Japan in the last few years certainly sounds better than Steamboat working great matches in half empty buildings in dying Crockett and money bleeding WCW. Not that I care about it one way or another, honestly. I have loved Steamboat's work, love Omega's now...

[Herodes]

Thinking that CrossFit dweeb is even in the same stratosphere as the magnificence of Ricky  Steamboat is everything that is wrong about Meltzerian smark nonsense. He’s Seth Rollins with a perm and he’s shit.

[NintendoLogic]

Dave didn't say that Omega was better than Steamboat. Someone tweeted at him that people didn't want to spend 60 dollars to watch an unproven entity, and he replied that calling Omega, Jericho, and the Young Bucks unproven in 2019 would be like calling Flair, Steamboat, and the Midnight Express unproven in 1989. He did say that Omega's matches with Elgin, Okada, Ibushi, and Tanahashi were better than Savage/Steamboat. I don't agree with that, but I will grant that it's probably the consensus view among those viewing the matches without the benefit of nostalgia. And Steamboat's matches with Flair and Savage really were closer to the modern workrate style than some would care to admit.

[Boss Rock]

3 hours ago, TonyPulis'Cap said:

Overall, I'm willing these guys to succeed tonight and then for AEW to succeed, whether it ends up being something that I enjoy from wrestling or not. I know people are already taking sides - we live in a very polarised world where everything is either amazing or terrible - but as someone that has basically checked out of WWE and their presentation in wrestling since last years Mania, an alternative way of presenting pro-wrestling seems so, so important.      

Here here.

[Boss Rock]

Honestly I want AEW to do well and there a number of wrestlers associated to it that I like. Considering just how stale and lifeless WWE is now, a viable alternative would hopefully do only good things for the fans and the overall industry itself.

I do have my reservations because while I like the idea of a more sports-oriented presentation, I can definitely see the BTE humor seeping in and becoming a bit too "wink wink nudge nudge". Whether or not that's a good thing clearly comes down to personal preference, but I personally hope they would reign it back a bit.

Barring any major card changes I expect Double or Nothing to be a good show, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are issues with the production considering this is only their second show and they don't have the ROH resources this time. Also, I really hope they reconsider the ppv price going forward.

[joeg]

24 minutes ago, Boss Rock said:

 Also, I really hope they reconsider the ppv price going forward.

As forward thinking as Khan and Cody seem to be I'm surprised they are running with a traditional PPV at traditional PPV prices. I would have thought they'd have gone the avenue of a streaming service ala ESPN plus or DAZN much the way UFC, Bellator, Top Rank, and Golden Boy all have done. 

[The Thread Killer]

30 minutes ago, Boss Rock said:

Also, I really hope they reconsider the ppv price going forward.

You ain't kidding there. 

To be honest, I was not inclined to watch this show at first because I really don't care for Kenny Omega or the Young Bucks at all, and of course they will be featured heavily, (and rightly so.)  Furthermore, I have a sneaky suspicion that although he has not been announced, Joey Ryan will make his presence felt on this show, and I would rather take a shot to the groin from a ball peen hammer than spend one dime furthering the career of Joey Ryan. 

On the other hand, the first Omega/Jericho match was quite good - Jericho has finally adapted his style to match his age and limitations and stopped trying to wrestle like it's 1999 , so the Main Event could be quite good. Also, I quite like the Lucha Brothers even though I don't care for that particular style of Tag Team Wrestling (I'm old school, I like my tag teams to actually tag in and out, not just do a bunch of stuff.)  I think the build for Cody/Dustin has been great and I'd like to see that match.  But most important of all, I do not care at all for the current WWE product and I want to support any group who is serious about providing an alternative. I am generally quite serious about that.  I have shelled out a couple of times to order Impact shows since the Anthem regime has taken over.  I could have waited a couple of hours and watched the show for free via less scrupulous means, but I wanted to pay fairly for a company that seems to be making an honest effort to provide a quality product as a WWE alternative in 2019.

Once they announced that Double or Nothing was going to be available via traditional PPV, which meant I could watch it on my TV without having to bother hooking my laptop up to the TV and use Fite TV or some equally sketchy online streaming service which might crap out on me...I decided what the hell.  I'll check out the card, and order the PPV.  Then I actually saw the card - and this was before the PAC/Hangman match got scrapped.  Then I saw the price for the PPV with my cable provider.

FIFTY FREAKING BUCKS.

I'm sorry, but that's just flat out insane.  There is no way in hell this card is worth anywhere near $50.  Hell, even asking for $35 for this show via Fite TV is a bit of an ask, but I probably would have paid that for the PPV on cable. You'd have to add at least 2 or 3 more major marquee matches to even get me to consider paying $50 to order a Pro Wrestling PPV in 2019.  There is way too much quality content available for wrestling fans right now that is either much cheaper or in some cases, free.  Why would I shell out $50 for this show, when I could watch pretty much any MLW show on YouTube for free?  I'm all for supporting AEW on the basis of their trying to provide an alternative to WWE alone, but they made a MAJOR misstep with this price.  I can't even imagine what the hell they were thinking.

[Boss Rock]

3 minutes ago, joeg said:

As forward thinking as Khan and Cody seem to be I'm surprised they are running with a traditional PPV at traditional PPV prices. I would have thought they'd have gone the avenue of a streaming service ala ESPN plus or DAZN much the way UFC, Bellator, Top Rank, and Golden Boy all have done. 

I have to think that a streaming service or alternative is in the works, but yeah not a good move with ppv.

[The Thread Killer]

36 minutes ago, Boss Rock said:

I do have my reservations because while I like the idea of a more sports-oriented presentation, I can definitely see the BTE humor seeping in and becoming a bit too "wink wink nudge nudge". Whether or not that's a good thing clearly comes down to personal preference, but I personally hope they would reign it back a bit.

That's another major concern I have regarding AEW.  I get the suspicion that I am going to be a much bigger fan of the idea of AEW than I am of the actual product they end up producing. But time will tell.  I will give them a chance...just not for $50.

[SirEdger]

Same here. The business will be all better if a promotion like AEW succeeds but I'm not paying $50 tonight. I'll probably follow along on Twitter or something like that.

[The Thread Killer]

To be fair, another major thing that would have stopped me from ordering this show is the fact that it takes place at the exact same time as the Raptors game.  If the Toronto Raptors win tonight, they advance to the NBA finals for the first time in the 24 year history of the franchise.  I'm not a major basketball fan, but I've been watching the playoffs and this is no small deal. And it's on free TV, so there's that. 

And although I guess it's technically possible, it's highly unlikely that Joey Ryan or his penis will factor into the basketball game.

[C.S.]

Bayley > Ricky Steamboat

Spoiler

(at hugging)

 

[SirEdger]

Dammit, why don't we have an infinite like for posts like the one above this one?

[C.S.]

But anyway, yeah, $50 is too much. I don't care that "PPVs were $50 back in the day." Guess what: we're no longer "back in the day." The world has changed. I was actually going to order this, but the sticker shock for what feels like a placeholder show until TNT is too much for me to swallow + it's significantly cheaper on FITE in the rest of the world*, which pisses me off too.

 *including Canada, so if FITE does on-demand, the Raptors guy above can order it for cheap and watch later. Alas, Joey Ryan and his penis might be factored into the discounted price.

[FMKK]

4 hours ago, El-P said:

Okada vs Omega trilogy blows away Steamboat vs Flair seven ways to Sunday in my book. There's both a generational and perspective gap. The first is people living in the past, because it's comforting. The second is people giving way too much credit to the all-mighty "canon", because, well, it's comforting too. I for one have made the switch sometime somewhere when I was watching Lucha Underground. Funny to re-read some of the early stuff I wrote about it (just like the stuff I wrote first time I saw Omega or the Young Bucks, and even Will Ospreay). I totally changed my perspective and embraced what is happening now (and that I like, of course, tons of stuff happening now I don't care about, put WWE or ROH in this bag for instance). Anway, Omega helping packed some of the biggest house in Japan in the last few years certainly sounds better than Steamboat working great matches in half empty buildings in dying Crockett and money bleeding WCW. Not that I care about it one way or another, honestly. I have loved Steamboat's work, love Omega's now...

I hate this kind of talk because it almost feels like calling anyone who doesn't think Kenny Omega is the best thing since sliced bread dishonest or in denial as opposed to just not having the same taste as you. I happen to think that there are plenty of things about the past that were done better and more effectively than today and, given that the popularity of the wrestling industry was far larger 25-30 years ago, I would suggest that others agree. That's not a knock on Kenny per se, I'm excited to see what he can do with Jericho tonight because I liked the first match. But I'm against this sort of whiggish arc of history thinking where everything is always progressing. 

[Herodes]

It’s an overused meme but older fans trying to be down with the CrossFit Geeks does always remind me of it:

 

If you’re looking for an alternative to current shitty WWE it’s all there for the great price of just $9.99 a month with all the prime time, nwa/wcw Saturday night, mid south, awa, mid Atlantic, hidden gems etc that you could never get through in a lifetime unless your priorities are all wrong. Better than wasting $50 on this PWG show with a money mark and charismaless cody. Nothing on this show is going to come close to the greatness of Tito Santana vs Ron Bass from 1987 prime time, go watch it and you can thank me later.

[sek69]

Damn dude, who hurt you to have this much anger for a promotion running it's first show on their own? 

I will say it is kind of giving me nostalgia for the WWF fans vs WCW fans battles of yore. Even before the Monday Night Wars made it cool, it always seemed like there were folks who hated the very concept of the opposing promotion, as if Vince or Crockett murdered their mothers. 

[El-P]

35 minutes ago, FMKK said:

I hate this kind of talk because it almost feels like calling anyone who doesn't think Kenny Omega is the best thing since sliced bread dishonest or in denial as opposed to just not having the same taste as you.

That's not at all what I mean. I do think there's a generational gap in that a lot of people will have a bias toward what they grew up on, which is only human. And I think there's a perspective gap in that some of us are like obsessed with the canon and any discourse that will shake up the canon won't be accepted very well. Hell, we had that talk about lucha, very few lucha matches are part of the canon, and it's pretty much ignorance of that culture which is why we had the angry lucha fans during the GWE. It's all a matter on taste in the end. But people getting angry at other people because they love what is happening *now* kinda always goes back to these two elements, you can see it everywhere by the way, movies, music, TV show etc... In a way, it's always a matter of looking at a Golden Age, which is something of the past, and something that never really existed, because the Golden Age is *always* in the past, no matter from where you look (those salty old workers of the 80's shitting on Flair because he was not a shooter like World champion should and was doing too many nonsensical spots).

35 minutes ago, FMKK said:

I happen to think that there are plenty of things about the past that were done better and more effectively than today and, given that the popularity of the wrestling industry was far larger 25-30 years ago, I would suggest that others agree. 

I honestly don't think you can link popularity with "things done well". The hottest period for pro-wrestling as presented by the WWF was the late 90's. And it was mostly god-awful. But of course, some stuff were done better in a different context. Some things are done better now, but again, not the same context. You can only pretend it's 1985 for so long until you're into full cosplay mode. Hey, I have no idea how AEW will present their stuff. Maybe they'll bring back some of the stuff that was better 20/30 years ago and mix it with what is better now. Maybe they won't. As far as I go, I'm just saying I made a switch toward enjoying the most of what's better now (IMO) and stopped thinking about the past in a way that it becomes the absolute point of reference. 

[Herodes]

Sek69, I think you’re confusing me for someone who cares at all about any wwe since around 1997 which is when I stopped watching the promotion regularly. If it no longer existed I would be fine with that as long as all the archives were still available. I could happily (and pretty much do) just watch stuff that took place pre 1996. I’m just trying to let the young brothers and sisters know that there’s a lifetimes worth of genuinely good wrestling before wrestling was shit easily available instead of spending 50 on cody, kenny and Chinese acrobats.