sek69 Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 So among other things, one of WWE's rumored responses to AEW is to put more focus on the tag team divison since AEW made it clear that it will be one of their main points of emphasis. Like a lot of Vince/WWE ideas, it's one of those things that sound good on paper but will fizzle out at best, or at worst turn into some monstrosity no one wanted for one simple reason: Vince has never been a fan of tag teams. I can hear everyone now slamming their keys "what about the 80s when the Bulldogs/Harts/Islanders/Demos/ et al were all around?", and yes, that would absolutely be the high water point for tag teams in the WWF/E. It also was the time the company was running multiple touring circuits and needed bodies to fill all those cards. Not to mention they had an excess of riches with a lot of good tag teams happening to all be in the same time and place under their umbrella. Even then, it was never the focus of any show. The tag titles didn't even get showcased on the biggest show of that era (WM 3), with the Harts and Bulldogs getting put in a six man tag mainly as a blowoff to the Danny Davis: Heel Ref angle. Even in the 2000s when they had the Dudleys/Hardys/E&C it was less tag team wrestling than guys having increasingly more death defying plunder matches. What seems to be the biggest roadblock IMO is Vince's determination that tag teams only exist to break up. A lot of us old farts can recall the days when being a "tag team specialist" was a thing. Yeah, you might see Hawk or Ricky Morton get a singles match once in a while, but most tag teams stayed tag teams unless there was a legit falling out or someone quit/got fired. You had the Rock n Rolls, the Midnights, the Fantastics, Road Warriors, and many others who not only stayed together but managed to get over in different areas. Then you had guys like the Barbarian who wasn't lighting the world on fire as a single, but ended up with a solid career as a tag team guy first with with the Warlord and then with Meng (we don't talk about that stint where he was a bootleg Headshrinker). Tag teams will never get to that level in a place where Vince gets final say because the moment a team gets hot, he wants to break them up so he can push the "Shawn" of the team as a single. More often than not that ends up being the guy who checks Vince's boxes instead of the guy who has the tools to be better suited for the push and they end up submarining a tag team act to make too low quality single ones. For fuck's sake he tried to make Bobby Roode a singles star before realizing something even TNA at their TNA-est figured out, he's better in tags. I hope to be proven wrong and we're ushered into a new era where tag teams get their due and main event shows like it's JCP in the 80s, but Vince is like the scorpion in that fable. You knew what he was, why be surprised when he stings you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 I'm not sure I'm in total agreement that Vince isn't a fan of tag teams. They may have not been the focal point of the WWE at any time, but they've at least been on the periphery all along. Its not like they ever just dropped the Tag Team Championships the way they dropped the Light Heavyweight Title and Women's Championships in the 90s. I do agree that Vince does look at tag teams as a launching pad for a singles star. Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Edge, Jeff Hardy, even Martel and Santana to a lesser extent, are all examples - and I think its hard to argue he was wrong in those assessments. The Rockers and Hart Foundation were great teams and I know its a "hot take" talking point around here that MIchaels best work was at a tag guy, but the reality is, when you look at what they did as singles, they were essential to the WWE in that role more than they were as tag guys. I think Vince sees tags as a way to break up the show and offer some variety on the card. Does that mean they're relegated to a "sub-main event" level and always will be? For sure. But there's also a little chicken-or-the-egg going on. Has Vince ever had a tag team more over than the ace? I don't think so. The Road Warriors and Rock n' Roll Express, at their peak, were over enough to deserve to be in the main event. But what was the most over team in WWE history? The Road Warriors in 92'? The New Age Outlaws? The Hardys? Team Hell No or New Day? Were any of these teams really popular enough to headline a SummerSlam let alone a WrestleMania? Again, maybe if they were pushed that way - but, for one example, I'm not sure even the strongest marketing push would've made Team Hell No a stronger act in 2012-13 than the names they had at the top of the card (Cena, Lesnar, and, in the build to WM29, The Rock too). In AEW, to that core audience of fans, the Young Bucks are main eventers. Their matches are going to be centerpieces - but that doesn't mean the division itself is going to be pushed as strong unless there are teams worthy of that position on the card. I don't know enough about indie wrestling, but right now, it looks like they're setting up some Young Bucks dream matches. Once those run out (which could be years from now), does a Young Bucks vs. Joe Schmo and Hank Nobody still merit top-of-the-card placement? Or worse - what about a tag match pitting Schmo & Nobody vs. The Bland Brothers? Its easy to say "We're going to push tag team wrestling" when the mega-popularity of the Young Bucks is one of the driving causes of the whole endeavor. What I hope for - but don't expect to happen - is that the WWE at least allows for the opportunity for the tag division to reach that level. The best example is NXT, where, when #DIY/Revival/AOP were putting on the best matches on the card, Triple H knew the audience would accept them main eventing a Takeover show. Of course, the minute those teams left, the tag division no longer warranted that kind of spotlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 Shane McMahon is co-holder of one set of tag-team championship. Take this fact the way you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 There have been times where teams have been really showcased and given the chance to anchor shows, to be fair. 2009 saw JeriShow, DX and Legacy as focal points and The Shield had about 4 or 5 great teams in their orbit. I think tags are something that Vince will utilise when they're hot and relegate to the midcard when they're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 There's a very good chance we're going to see a Women's Title match as the main event of WrestleMania in 2019. That shit was un-fucking-fathomable three or four years ago. Never say never... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 If I were a wrestler I would rather be somewhere in the middle of the card than at the end of a seven hour marathon in front of a completely dead crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 The Shield is a prime example of what I was talking about. It was always designed as a vehicle to get Roman (and Seth to a lesser degree) over as singles stars. One could argue the intial breakup was done too soon in terms of what more could have been done with them as a unit, but again Vince just saw a tag team as a means to an end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 6 hours ago, Stiva said: There have been times where teams have been really showcased and given the chance to anchor shows, to be fair. 2009 saw JeriShow, DX and Legacy as focal points and The Shield had about 4 or 5 great teams in their orbit. I think tags are something that Vince will utilise when they're hot and relegate to the midcard when they're not. Good call on 2009, one of the only times tag bouts were headlining PPVs with DX/Legacy at HIAC and DX/JeriShow at TLC. While they didn't headline Summerslam, the initial DX/Legacy match there was excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 I think Vince also over-learned the lessons from the Rockers breakup. Not just a team splitting up, but that the angle needs to be a hard turn of one on the other, the sense of a team as a "Shawn" and a "Marty" as opposed to two guys who are equally over... it feels like it's all been repeating since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaveri Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 The Shield was actually used as a vehicle to get Dean Ambrose over as a singles star. He's the one who got most of the promo time, the singles championship, match with The Undertaker, planned feud with Foley etc... Also worth noting the only times in WWE when tag teams were main eventing PPVs were the Two Man Power Trip in 2001, DX vs. Legacy/JeriShow in 2009 and Evolution vs. The Shield. Note the common denominator. Tag team wrestling can be main-event material when they want to present it as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 I love the story about how Kendrick and London were getting a tour of Titan Towers during their run and bumped into Shane who told them that the last time tag team wrestling mattered was when the LOD was in the company. (or something like that) Here we go: In great detail, London and Kendrick speak about the challenges they faced in WWE, from the moment they toured the head office building. Kendrick vividly remembers asking Shane McMahon about the role tag teams play in WWE: "Not since L.O.D. have I cared about a f------ tag team," Kendrick repeats what Shane McMahon told him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Wouldn't this undermine the presence of teams like The Bar, Usos and New Day, though? They are all presented like huge deals. People like to mention how the Revival were "misused", but it's more about bad timing than anything. Both got injured at different times and they just didn't click with the main roster. It's similar to American Alpha who despite getting the title early into their main roster run, had low crowd support, which then led to people cheering for ORTON AND BRAY over them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 I don't know about the long-term viability of the women's tag division, but they're getting off on the wrong foot because the Elimination Chamber match to determine the first champions looks absolutely dire. The four announced teams are Nia/Tamina, Morgan/Logan, Rose/Deville, and the IIconics. Sasha/Bayley will most likely be the third Raw team, but even if WWE builds a time machine and brings back the 1987 Jumping Bomb Angels to be the sixth team, this match looks to be doomed beyond any hope of redemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: Nia/Tamina, Morgan/Logan, Rose/Deville, and the IIconics. The Harris Bros would be a step up from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 30 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: I don't know about the long-term viability of the women's tag division, but they're getting off on the wrong foot because the Elimination Chamber match to determine the first champions looks absolutely dire. The four announced teams are Nia/Tamina, Morgan/Logan, Rose/Deville, and the IIconics. Sasha/Bayley will most likely be the third Raw team, but even if WWE builds a time machine and brings back the 1987 Jumping Bomb Angels to be the sixth team, this match looks to be doomed beyond any hope of redemption. Sky Pirates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 I was thinking that initially, but the WWE.com preview says the match will have three teams from Raw and three from Smackdown, which would seem to rule out anyone from NXT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 I believe local ads for the show have been advertising Naomi and Carmella being the final team, aka the only women left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaveri Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 The match will be fine with Bayley/Sasha being the centrepiece. They've had good matches with everyone in there except Tamina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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