WWE TV 02/11 - 02/17 *space up for sale*

[NintendoLogic]

These threads remind me of being on DVDVR circa 2013 with all the blind optimism and willful overlooking of all the red flags. I can't wait to hear people start bending over backwards to explain why Charlotte being added to the match is Actually A Good Thing.

[DMJ]

- I don't think people have to bend over all the way backwards to explain it. While I agree that Lynch/Rousey would be preferred (much like Bryan/Batista or Bryan/Orton would've been better at WM30 or Benoit/HHH would've been better at WM20), I don't think its that far a step down. Its obvious the company views Charlotte as their top female talent - not just in 2019, but for the past few years and for the foreseeable future. They want her to be able to say she was the first woman to headline WrestleMania. Rousey is not long for the WWE and, right or wrong, I think they believe Becky will flame out. Its not fair. Its not right. Its not as good as what you or I might fantasy book. But Becky Lynch is winning the big one in the main event of WrestleMania and I'm okay with Charlotte being there too. Maybe its just me, but I also like Charlotte's work and, if she goes full-blown heel now by aligning with the McMahons, I'm even more likely to enjoy this. 

- What's crazy to me about Braun is, last year, when they had nothing for him, they teamed him up with a child and had him win the tag titles in a "feel good" moment slotted before the main event to cool down the crowd. It was widely criticized. Here we are 9 1/2 months later and its clear to me that they have nothing for him again. I predict we're getting Strowman vs. McIntyre, which is a pre-show match to me. You can put it on the main card, but, at best, its a RAW main event when Brock isn't there to be in the last segment. Its a feud that's been orbiting the RAW scene for months too, so its not exactly fresh even if they've yet to have a definitive 1-on-1 match. Its two mid-carders squaring off in a match for no stakes. I understand the "Creative Has Nothing For You" trope when it involves guys like Crews and Ziggler and Ryder, but goddamn, how is a 6'8'' 350+ pound strongman not a top priority in booking meetings? 

[hammerva]

2 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

These threads remind me of being on DVDVR circa 2013 with all the blind optimism and willful overlooking of all the red flags. I can't wait to hear people start bending over backwards to explain why Charlotte being added to the match is Actually A Good Thing.

At least this time the "it was all part of the plan" logic actually holds merit unlike the last time where people to this day still believe that Daniel Bryan was always going to win the title at WM 30

All it really proves is that Becky vs Charlotte vs Rousey has to be the main event of WM.   When Becky wins (still not too sure about it)  it is a great go home moment that they kind of have gone away from depending on your rooting interests.   If Charlotte wins then the rest of the show is going to be completely derailed by the fans and make last year's WM main event looks like the fans were at the Tokyo Dome.  

[FMKK]

Becky is obviously winning at Mania. The fact that people think she isn't means they're being successfully worked by WWE. That isn't a bad thing, but the problem nowadays is that people direct heat towards the company and the booking instead of the characters on-screen when they don't get what they want.

This entire story arc began with Charlotte being shoehorned into Becky's match and taking the championship. They're setting it up that it's going to happen again, but this time Becky is going to overcome it and still win because she's stronger than she was last summer. It might not be perfect and there might be missteps but I think that's a perfectly credible and understandable narrative for them to build.

[KawadaSmile]

We are forgetting that we are two months away from WM and we still have Fastlane.

Honestly adding some good twists and turns is what's making this build very good. Can't have weekly Rousey meltdowns while Becky smirks.

For instance, they kind of addressed @NintendoLogic's point about her being stubborn. Triple H and Steph didn't really make her life miserable even after getting punched, and to me they managed to present both sides well.

Vince, on the other hand, saying that Charlotte is the corporate pick is a fantastic way to give the feud the longevity it needed.

 

Can't wait for Flair's birthday celebration. Imagine the 4HM bumping for her.

 

 

[Stiva]

I think the longer issue when they try to play the crowd like this is that it ends up with some long-term unwanted resentment to the likes of Charlotte and they end up damaged.

[KawadaSmile]

I don't know. While it is a possibility, Charlotte IS an incredible heel and the criticisms were there long before the build to this WrestleMania, so if they play into this situation correctly, it could lead to her being the #1 heel in the company, and even more of an all around act than what she was circa 2015/16.

[NintendoLogic]

The thing is, the journey is as important as the destination. Even if all this is building toward Becky triumphing at Wrestlemania, adding a bunch of WWE bullshit to what should be the simplest storyline imaginable will only diminish its impact. That probably doesn't matter in the short run since Becky appears to be bulletproof. But so did Daniel Bryan, and look what happened to him. You can only swim against the tide for so long before you get pulled under.

[KawadaSmile]

1 minute ago, NintendoLogic said:

But so did Daniel Bryan, and look what happened to him.

...he got creative control?

[Blehschmidt]

They just can't help themselves. We are headed into year 22 of heel authority figures, and McMahons all over everything and I honestly believe they are too lazy or too arrogant to book it any other way.

This story wrote itself. It didn't need Vince, or Hunter, or the inventor of women's everything,  Stephanie. It needed the hottest act in the company to take on the biggest mainstream star in the company as the first worst women to headline the biggest show in the industry.

But why do that when you can turn it into the same bullshit you've been serving up since 1997.

I'm very happy for Becky, and I hope she gets her moment, but I wish they'd find another way.

[El-P]

2 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

...he got creative control?

No one ever got creative control in WWE. Not Hogan, not Bret, not Austin, not Cena. Daniel Bryan probably has the most stroke other than Cena and Lesnar, but don't kid yourself, he doesn't have creative control. It's too bad he renewed his deal before AEW came around, because I would have loved to see him in a context where he's actually totally free.

[El-P]

2 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

We are headed into year 22 of heel authority figures, and McMahons all over everything and I honestly believe they are too lazy or too arrogant to book it any other way.

They are the real stars. They really believe it. It's both insane and inane at this point. 22 years and counting.

[Strummer]

so they were obviously hinting that HHH and Steph didn't know that Vince was going to suspend Becky and announce Charlotte.  Pretty sure that it will be revealed that all of them were working to screw over Becky from the beginning and Steph and HHH were fronting the whole time.  Or do we get McMahons taking sides in the mania main event ala 2000?

[KawadaSmile]

43 minutes ago, El-P said:

No one ever got creative control in WWE. Not Hogan, not Bret, not Austin, not Cena. Daniel Bryan probably has the most stroke other than Cena and Lesnar, but don't kid yourself, he doesn't have creative control. It's too bad he renewed his deal before AEW came around, because I would have loved to see him in a context where he's actually totally free.

While it isn't WCW levels of control over his own stuff - and that's a good thing - if you watch regularly, it's obvious he's having the say in his awesome heel run. The point is that him being used as a cautionary tale in this context is... inaccurate, to say the least.

[sek69]

Yeah, it's clear Bryan is given way more room to do his thing than nearly anyone else in the company right now.  It helps that he's following the Stone Cold rule of making a good character by just amplifying his own personality too.

As far as the Charlotte thing, I've made my peace with it. Yes, a singles match would be better, but if it's true Ronda wants to take some time off after Mania creating a #1 heel and a clear #1 babyface in the process is the best possible chicken salad they can make. 

[Kadaveri]

I've watched the final segment of Raw now. Was it just me up did Charlotte get almost no reaction when she came out taking Becky's place at Mania? The camera cut to the fans in the arena and they just looked bored. And that same crowd had just earlier been loudly cheering Becky, booed HHH & Stephanie and gave a loud mixed reaction to Ronda.

[SirEdger]

Perhaps it was just the stunning realization that they were really going with the 3-way route for Wrestlemania.

[clintthecrippler]

While I would prefer a Becky vs Ronda one-on-one at Wrestlemania, if they roll with the Triple Threat I think it will still be an incredible match and the crowd reaction will be thunderous if Becky goes over.

But I say "if" because this feels like they are pulling the Charlotte card so far ahead of Wrestlemania that it feels like a bluff. If we were 100 percent completed with the spring PPVs it would be on thing, but I am 50 percent on the side that they are trolling the audience right now, and that Becky will beat Charlotte at Fastlane in some sort of "gatekeeper" match where the winner gets the one-on-one match once and for all.

[SomethingSavage]

Their booking just feels so lazy and uninspired at every level. The Bryan stuff feels fresh and unique, because it's at least a character-driven story and seems to be headed toward a logical conclusion (him getting beat and having his eco-belt destroyed or whatever).

Everything else is trash in comparison. Yes. They're focusing on Becky, which is great. But it's still so very lazy and extremely uninspired.

They don't even bother to create original angles or new stories for these people anymore. There are no new quests or journeys. It doesn't matter if it's Roman or Becky or whoever - they're all living out "Story Mode" realities of other wrestlers' careers.

Every angle is a diluted, Xeroxed copy of something that was already done (to greater success and popularity). Becky is catching fire & should at least warrant a chance to have her OWN story unfold. Instead, they're trying to birth this weird Austin/Bryan hybrid baby for her. It's forced and unnecessary, instead of feeling like some situation that is wholly her own.

Seth Rollins wins the Rumble. Okay. I can deal with that. But if they're backing this guy for the Mania title shot, shouldn't he have his own angle or story for Mania?

Nah. They just give him the standard, "It's my childhood dream to finally main event WrestleMania!" teary-eyed horse shit. Seriously. We get this every year. It's literally one of the ONLY stories they know how to tell anymore.

It's either the lifelong dream come true or the record-breaking bullshit. That's literally it. That's all they've got. Fifty-eleven writers on staff & zero original ideas among them. The fuck?

[NintendoLogic]

7 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

...he got creative control?

Creative control as a midcard comedy heel. He's talented enough to make it work more than it should, but come on. Saving the planet by being WWE champion? That's some WWF New Generation shit.

[ZThomas]

1 hour ago, SomethingSavage said:

 

Seth Rollins wins the Rumble. Okay. I can deal with that. But if they're backing this guy for the Mania title shot, shouldn't he have his own angle or story for Mania?

Nah. They just give him the standard, "It's my childhood dream to finally main event WrestleMania!" teary-eyed horse shit. Seriously. We get this every year. It's literally one of the ONLY stories they know how to tell anymore.

It's either the lifelong dream come true or the record-breaking bullshit. That's literally it. That's all they've got. Fifty-eleven writers on staff & zero original ideas among them. The fuck?

Its unfortunate for him this Mania build is flat because I expect for the match to deliver but because this wasn't the plan 6 months ago they really didn't put much creative energy in this.

I would rather not the Womens title match be a triple threat match but I don't think it worth shutting all over the match. Its not like they are just shoe horning Charlotte into this just because. Plus the past few months forced them the turn her back heel. I believe she's a much better worker this time around, she's owns being a heel and I believe we'll be seing some good work out of her in the build to the match. There is still a chance that they decide to just go with Ronda vs Becky as a singles and work  it like they were teasing adding Charlotte because part of me thinks that they are having Charlotte play it up too much. Either way, when ever they do Ronda vs Charlotte or Ronda vs Becky in Singles it will be Hot. Maybe Ronda might wait a few more months before going on hiatus.

[SomethingSavage]

I'm not shitting on the match. I fucking LOVED Charlotte/Ronda back in November. I mostly dug the Becky/Charlotte series. And I'm kind of convinced they'll actually crown Becky here. No problems with that.

My aggravation is aimed at the booking. It's just so lifeless, lethargic, and downright apathetic. That's their approach to... Well, everything.

They book for star-seeking matches. Continuously. Every show. Every match. On every card. It's monotonous and tiresome. There are no engaging stories. There are no hooks. No enticing conflicts. No quests that feel worth following. I guess you could point to Becky, but again - even her journey is a copy of a copied story that's already been told again & again & again.

Everything is a competitive match. Despite the fact that they got guys over like gangbusters - namely Braun and Ryback in recent times - by leaning into squash matches instead, they still pour all their resources into this endless treadmill of competitive matches. It's all so exhausting.

Where's the character development? Where's the emotional attachment? Where's ANY reason to care for these characters, beyond "McMahon doesn't want us to like you, so we love you!"

..? It isn't there. Any of it.

If shit like Seth/Dean teaming up again so soon happened in any other storytelling medium, it would be ripped to shreds by critics. WWE wants to be taken seriously as this storytelling art form, but it's lucky nobody takes it seriously, to be honest. Because they get a pass for shitty stories and illogical developments like that.

I don't know. Most modern WWE just isn't for me. At all. I can't sit through shitty, meaningless hours of WWE television that lead nowhere and cultivate NOTHING NEW. Ever. I just can't.

I can't watch WWE television without glancing back & forth at the time. I always feel like there are better things I could be doing with my time. At the very least, I could binge watch a MUCH better show - one with actual character development and storytelling.

At 30 years old, I probably sound like the world's oldest, angriest man yelling at a cloud. And sometimes WWE's shitty booking *does* have me question if it's possible I've finally outgrown my wrestling fandom.

But then I see a wrestling show that's actually, ya know, GOOD. And I know nothing could be further from the truth.

So yeah. I guess that's just it. The action is great, and some of the matches are top shelf. But their booking is so fucking god awful.

It's borderline criminal that Becky may get her crowning moment, but it's going to come in such a repetitive, dated, tired angle - instead of a story specifically designed for her - to be ABOUT her.

Nobody was booking Steve Austin to relive the Diesel title win. Why can't they just get off their asses and serve up something original again?

It's staged. You can LITERALLY do anything with these characters & have your fan base accept it. The idea that they keep retreading the SAME fucking terrain over & over is maddening.

[FMKK]

There's enough of a character conflict between Ronda's background and journey and Becky's to build to a heated match but their problem is that there's just so many hours of content for them to fill between Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania that they have to throw in all this other stuff. It would be different if the Rumble was six weeks out from Mania or whatever.

I don't hate what they're doing here and I think some of it is quite good, but it is a consequence of basically having too much time to fill.

[El-P]

24 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

Why can't they just get off their asses and serve up something original again?

Because it's all about DA BRAND. Crying about going to live a Mania Moment and point at sign once a year. What else ? They have the money from Fox and the Saudis. They don't need to do anything else anymore, and they don't want to make anyone special because they could leave, those ingrates. It's all about the McMahons and the Brand, and being happy to work for the McMahons and the Brand. 

[KawadaSmile]

Carmella and Naomi. I got no words.