Dark Side of the Ring

[NintendoLogic]

According to Observers from that period, the WWF seriously considered having Vince manage Doc and William Regal since they both started with the company around the same time, the idea being that he was bringing in two shooters to destroy Austin. I don't know how well that would have worked, but it would've been a million times better than what they eventually did.

[C.S.]

33 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

According to Observers from that period, the WWF seriously considered having Vince manage Doc and William Regal since they both started with the company around the same time, the idea being that he was bringing in two shooters to destroy Austin. I don't know how well that would have worked, but it would've been a million times better than what they eventually did.

That is a pretty awesome idea, even if it would've only led to Austin destroying them both on a random December PPV or something. 

[Strummer]

4 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

According to Observers from that period, the WWF seriously considered having Vince manage Doc and William Regal since they both started with the company around the same time, the idea being that he was bringing in two shooters to destroy Austin. I don't know how well that would have worked, but it would've been a million times better than what they eventually did.

I definitely remember this being reported at the time. I think it was mostly Jim Ross's idea with Russo arguing "our audience doesn't know who Dr. Death is!"

i do wonder if Austin would have sold for Regal here if it happened since they are  so close in real life. Probably not but but it would have been interesting

[C.S.]

12 minutes ago, Strummer said:

i do wonder if Austin would have sold for Regal here if it happened since they are  so close in real life. Probably not but but it would have been interesting

He sold for Chyna, so why wouldn't he sell for Regal?

In a way, we should thank our lucky stars Austin vs. Williams never happened - because Vince Russo would've made it all about Austin's real name being Steve Williams and come up with a bunch of convoluted crap around that. 

[Strummer]

Well I meant sell for him during a whole program not just in a match or isolated segments

[Alucard]

Agreed on Bart Gunn. I always wish they kept that momentum and gave him a push as a total badass afterwards, at least something to the level of how his former partner at that time became "Hardcore" Holly. 

[NintendoLogic]

For those who missed it, here's the full list of this season's episodes.

Part one of the Pillman episode is out.

Man, the years have not been kind to Melanie at all. I guess that's karma for you.

[JRH]

I wonder if Vice will change the schedule so that the Warrior one can air either before or the week after the A&E Warrior Biography, so we can have an interesting contrast.

[sek69]

Man, watching the Pillman ep now is just devastating to see how fucked up his family was yet how much he loved his kids. JR talking about going to Brian's funeral thinking about how this should never be a part of his job was powerful stuff.

On a lighter note, it was hilarious to see Eric still believing he was in on the work 23 years later with the whole release deal. To be fair, it 100% comes off that he completely believes what he's saying, but it was funny to see literally everyone else who would know (Kim Wood, Dave, Jim Cornette) basically say "yeah that mf got worked".

[MoS]

Wood also had one of the best lines in the show's history, about how the best way to break up with a girl is to make her think it's her idea. That was a massive burn at Bischoff's expense, and I wouldn't be surprised if 83 Weeks soon did a special episode of "Brian Pillman in WCW: Eric Bischoff SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT"

[BigBadMick]

They did a Pillman episode early on in 83 weeks - it was messy and combative.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Ok. So Meltzer said that someone was full of shit on these episodes. Everyone assumed it was Bischoff. I'm thinking it's Wood. I'm only halfway through ep 1 and he's entertaining as fuck, but I'm not buying that he was in Pillman's ear helping to create the Loose Cannon gimmick.

Edit: Well, two minutes later, it is Bischoff still insisting he didn't get worked. But I still think Wood is full of shit as well.

Edit again: And Dave just confirmed that Wood is legit. So I'm happy to be wrong. It was Bischoff.

[sek69]

Yeah Kim was known to be Brian's #1 advisor/confidant, and as the episode showed him and Dave were the only two people Brian wouldn't ever try to work (mostly because he knew both would call him on his bullshit).

Eric was basically the human version of dril's "I'm not owned" tweet in this episode, and JR just crushed me when he was talking about Brian Jr saying he has a lot of his dad's good qualities and hopes he doesn't get his dad's bad ones. 

[Enforcer]

Brian Jr’s story about the abuse that his stepdad put him through broke my heart. Absolute horrible stuff. 

[flyonthewall2983]

I knew the car accident was detrimental, but I didn't realize he went through nearly some of the same things Brutus Beefcake did with regards to facial surgery. It made watching those clips of his return to action a little more harrowing to watch. It's darkly funny in a way because I just saw the Piper A&E special, which while is very good some of the bullshit was so transparent. Especially framing his time in WCW as him being injured and fucked up all the time, as if these things weren't commonplace under Vince's watchful eye. On the other hand, this episode showed how much he worked hurt in WWF and honestly they should never let him have wrestled at all.

His death was so sad, and it was so surreal and uncomfortable to watch Vince interview Melanie that night. It's still uncomfortable to watch, especially Vince's line of questioning. The remorse and maybe even anger in Ross' response to that segment is palpable. Seeing Cornette nearly in tears because it still hurts so much now. I could see how someone could see this kind of stuff as exploitative, but I think there is eagerness in cases like this, to really try and set the record straight as much as possible. This was an amazing episode, and if it's quality is to be topped this season we'll be in for quite a ride.

Kim Wood was no doubt the MVP of those interviewed. At one point I told my dad (I've been watching episodes of this with him lately) "I love this guy!", I think just after he called Vince McMahon a whore. 

[sek69]

The whole point of Vince interviewing Melanie was to make it clear Brian was doing drugs so the company could claim it wasn't their fault. Probably the most disgusting thing he's ever done.

[Johnny Sorrow]

46 minutes ago, Enforcer said:

Brian Jr’s story about the abuse that his stepdad put him through broke my heart. Absolute horrible stuff. 

Yeah, but the fact that the recreation implied that his step father was The Motor City Madman had me going "Hmmm.."

 

[Johnny Sorrow]

8 minutes ago, sek69 said:

The whole point of Vince interviewing Melanie was to make it clear Brian was doing drugs so the company could claim it wasn't their fault. Probably the most disgusting thing he's ever done.

It's THE grossest thing ever on WWF TV, in my opinion.

And as far as who was full of shit or who wasn't in this? It's spread around evenly, I think.

As far as Brian's family goes, I feel bad for all of them. Including Melanie. If you don't have sympathy for her after this, you need to reevaluate yourself as a human. 

[NintendoLogic]

On a lighter note, I was surprised to hear Austin put over the Pillman gun angle. He usually has a good head for the business and is willing to own up to when something he was involved in didn't work. I also got a kick out of all the "dude"s and "far out, man"s in his speech. He sounds more like a California surfer than a Texas redneck.

[Tenese Sarwieh]

Great premiere for season three. Them revealing the details of Pillman's family turmoil was rough to hear, mainly Rochelle's saga and Brian jr's abuse. Kim Wood stole the show with his segments especially his analysis of Vince and Eric during his contract negotiations with Brian, "What do you do to a whore, you fuck em". 
 

[sek69]

7 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

On a lighter note, I was surprised to hear Austin put over the Pillman gun angle. He usually has a good head for the business and is willing to own up to when something he was involved in didn't work. I also got a kick out of all the "dude"s and "far out, man"s in his speech. He sounds more like a California surfer than a Texas redneck.

When Ice T was on Austin's show it was amusing how similar their speech was, if you didn't know you'd think they grew up in the same area. 

5 hours ago, Tenese Sarwieh said:

Them revealing the details of Pillman's family turmoil was rough to hear, mainly Rochelle's saga and Brian jr's abuse.

Yeah, one of my big takeaways was wanting to give Brian Jr a hug. Lost his dad, Melanie was in no state to be a parent, and his stepdad being a giant piece of shit.  At least Melanie seems to realize she was a horrible person and looks like she's wanting to make amends. 

[TonyPulis'Cap]

What a fantastic pair of episodes. After the first series of DSOR was a bit up and down, maybe because it was trying to do too much sensationalising, they've really got into a groove and these were right up there with the Benoit and Owen episodes for me. And it's no coincidence that what you find so compelling is the family members and the impacts on them as much as the wrestling elements.

I listened to an excellent review from John and Wai on Post, who highlighted that in some of these episodes there seems to be a real duty of care (at least much more than a lot of other TV) in ensuring that the people that take part get some sort of closure or reconciliation and that something positive comes out of what is often dragging up some real harrowing stuff. There were a couple of scenes that were genuinely heartwarming such as all the siblings together with Linda Pillman (and what a saint she comes across as) and also that Brian Jr and Melanie have some sort of relationship again. Melanie clearly doesn't come across well, and how far she should or shouldn't be forgiven is up to those involved, but you could tell how much happier Brian was to have let go of some of that anger and resentment. 

On a wrestling level, I'm still so captivated by Pillman and the character he created all these years later - in terms of the direction the business was starting to go in he was very much ahead of his time, but as you see so many times in wrestling, that line between where the character and the real person starts and finishes seemed increasingly blurred. Ultimately he wasn't physically (or perhaps mentally) healthy enough to translate the intrigue in the persona he had built into becoming a big star, but you do wonder how he would have thrived during the Attitude era, which he then seemed made for as (and I'm sure I've stolen this from somewhere else online so apologies for no credit!) the Piper to Austin's Hogan.

And what more could you say about Vince? Yet another example to add to the rap sheet about what a sociopath he is - watching that clip of Melanie on Raw the night after never gets easier to watch.        

[Strummer]

I had no idea Pillman's car accident in early 96 was that bad. Iirc (and I believe it's mentioned in part 2) he tried to underplay the severity publicly as to not hurt his chance of getting a big contract with one of the big 2

i swear I remember him making a few appearances in ECW after the accident but uh, yeah, I don't think so

[SirEdger]

9 hours ago, TonyPulis'Cap said:

What a fantastic pair of episodes. After the first series of DSOR was a bit up and down, maybe because it was trying to do too much sensationalising, they've really got into a groove and these were right up there with the Benoit and Owen episodes for me. And it's no coincidence that what you find so compelling is the family members and the impacts on them as much as the wrestling elements.

I listened to an excellent review from John and Wai on Post, who highlighted that in some of these episodes there seems to be a real duty of care (at least much more than a lot of other TV) in ensuring that the people that take part get some sort of closure or reconciliation and that something positive comes out of what is often dragging up some real harrowing stuff. There were a couple of scenes that were genuinely heartwarming such as all the siblings together with Linda Pillman (and what a saint she comes across as) and also that Brian Jr and Melanie have some sort of relationship again. Melanie clearly doesn't come across well, and how far she should or shouldn't be forgiven is up to those involved, but you could tell how much happier Brian was to have let go of some of that anger and resentment. 

On a wrestling level, I'm still so captivated by Pillman and the character he created all these years later - in terms of the direction the business was starting to go in he was very much ahead of his time, but as you see so many times in wrestling, that line between where the character and the real person starts and finishes seemed increasingly blurred. Ultimately he wasn't physically (or perhaps mentally) healthy enough to translate the intrigue in the persona he had built into becoming a big star, but you do wonder how he would have thrived during the Attitude era, which he then seemed made for as (and I'm sure I've stolen this from somewhere else online so apologies for no credit!) the Piper to Austin's Hogan.

And what more could you say about Vince? Yet another example to add to the rap sheet about what a sociopath he is - watching that clip of Melanie on Raw the night after never gets easier to watch.        

I can't help but wonder if Pillman had been alive in 1998, that perhaps Vince would've maybe gone with Austin vs Pillman for the bulk of 1998. I still think the Mr. McMahon character would've been born but imagine McMahon being willing to associate himself with the Loose Cannon to get rid of Austin.

[Blehschmidt]

19 hours ago, Strummer said:

I had no idea Pillman's car accident in early 96 was that bad. Iirc (and I believe it's mentioned in part 2) he tried to underplay the severity publicly as to not hurt his chance of getting a big contract with one of the big 2

i swear I remember him making a few appearances in ECW after the accident but uh, yeah, I don't think so

You aren't wrong. He did show up on ECW in a wheel chair. If I remember correctly he broke a crutch over the head of Shane Douglas.