Dark Side of the Ring

[Al]

37 minutes ago, Bix said:

We do need to keep in mind that this was a seriously traumatic incident for everyone in that babyface locker room, especially Tony. Even with wrestlers, over 30 years it's not like it's impossible that the details have shifted in their minds a bit.

Agreed here. Eyewitness accounts can be notoriously hazy. You kind of need to collect everyone's stories and find the consistencies.

[Coffey]

When does the next episode come out? I really enjoyed the Brody one.

 

EDIT: Apparently, according to Twitter, the Savage/Liz episode is tonight.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Coffey
Answered my own question

[El Boricua]

3 hours ago, Bix said:

We do need to keep in mind that this was a seriously traumatic incident for everyone in that babyface locker room, especially Tony. Even with wrestlers, over 30 years it's not like it's impossible that the details have shifted in their minds a bit.

Completely agree with both your points. That just underscores that you can't take any one account at full face value. Especially when, even if there are good reasons for it occurring, there are things that are verifiably incorrect included in the accounts. That doesn't invalidate everything else in the account, but it is a reminder that one should be more wary in just accepting as is every detail given by any account.

2 hours ago, Al said:

Agreed here. Eyewitness accounts can be notoriously hazy. You kind of need to collect everyone's stories and find the consistencies.

And also agree with this. It's those consistencies across different people's accounts that are likely to be more credible (well, as long as there wasn't an agreement beforehand about what story to tell). That, and it's important to place the accounts into the proper context both in place and time. 

All that said, it is important to remember (and I say this mostly as a reminder to myself), that the discussion of what may have happened doesn't change the end result of what occurred and the effect it has had and continues to have on the people that it impacted directly. A man died in a senseless and violent act, and it's something that can't be condoned. That is ultimately what matters, even if I am getting tired of both the extreme hagiography and extreme condemnation that tends to envelop any discussion of this horrible incident.

[hammerva]

Loved the story from Jake Roberts that Savage got in serious trouble with Elizabeth's parents because he promised that he would never let someone put a hand on her like Jake did when slapping her on Tuesday in Texas.     Really good episode on Savage.  Would have liked to see more about Savage after the divorce and before his second marriage but the reality is that the relationship between Liz and Lex Luger is most more important to the tragedy

 

[sek69]

Scott Hall was surprisingly great in this, I loved his line about how he'd do Randy if he was a chick.

[El-P]

I watched the Brody one. Mostly good stuff, although I'm not a fan at all of the directing. Music all the time is uneccessary, the thing never breathes. The whole "re-enactment" thing is kinda cheesy. As far as content, nothing new if you heard all those interviews for years. Atlas was really trying a bit too hard to put himself over. I would have liked to hear Savio again, a native perspective would have been welcome (I remember him basically saying Colon & Jovica were more to blame than Gonzalez as he thought they pushed him to do it). Watching those extracts of Colon in that shitty RF video, I remember how much of a dirtbag he came off like. "I believe in the law.". And this guy got the HOF treatment too… Anyway. The rest of the series sure will be interesting.

[flyonthewall2983]

I like the re-enactment stuff oddly enough. The Twitter account responded to someone saying it's Unsolved Mysteries mixed with pro wrestling by saying "This is EXACTLY what we wanted it to be." I think as long as they remain just visual gags and we don't hear them trying to imitate whoever, is fine with me. 

I also like the hazy aesthetic they use in presenting the older clips. I didn't think much of it with the Brody episode since a lot of the PR footage probably looks like crap anyway, but the WWE/WCW footage from the Savage episode had the same old VHS sheen to it and it felt like an artistic choice. 

[C.S.]

99 cents for the full season on Amazon!!!

https://smile.amazon.com/DARK-SIDE-RING-Season-1/dp/B07QKM2VZR/

But don't wait, because these deals never seem to last.

[sek69]

The only major thing I thought was missing from the Brody episode was how they didn't mention that anyone who's tried to investgate/ask questions to anyone in PR was basically threatened "drop it or else" over the years. It ended up underestimating how much pull the promotion had in their heyday.

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

99 cents for the full season on Amazon!!!

https://smile.amazon.com/DARK-SIDE-RING-Season-1/dp/B07QKM2VZR/

But don't wait, because these deals never seem to last.

Thanks for the heads up.

[El-P]

Agreed Linda & Hall came off really good in the Savage & Liz episode. A lot lighter in tone until the last five minutes, with maybe too much stuff talking about actual pro-wrestling angles. This is not exactly what we're here for. But anyway, this struck me as a bitter story in the end.

[flyonthewall2983]

The very end of the episode with his music playing and everyone talking about their legacy ended the episode on a better note than I expected.

[sek69]

Hogan was on Twitter being passive aggressive about how in his opinion the doc was just okay and relied too much on one person's version (he was clearly mad Linda was so much of the focus), only to have the official account for the series to reply mentioning they asked him to contribute and he said no.  It was quite the self-owning.

[Boss Rock]

Just saw the Brody episode. Even knowing the story it's really tragic to watch.

[C.S.]

I watched the Macho Man episode last night (Brody hasn't been added to Amazon yet, even though it aired months ago, because it's technically Episode 3), and it wasn't bad at all.

The only thing I didn't like were the super-cheesy re-enactments.

Linda Hogan, of all people, came across as surprisingly level-headed and credible. 

Jake the Snake's talking head clips were either filmed decades ago or DDP Yoga truly is miraculous.

I'm surprised there isn't more hate for Lex Luger in general just based on what happened with Elizabeth.

I didn't know before now that Randy Savage actually got Liz her WCW gig, although it makes sense in retrospect. Even after divorce, he was looking out for her. What a good guy. (Yes, I realize he was too intense, possessive, and jealous of Liz during the marriage - but do you really blame him for not trusting the other boys? I don't.)

[sek69]

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

didn't know before now that Randy Savage actually got Liz her WCW gig, although it makes sense in retrospect. Even after divorce, he was looking out for her. What a good guy

Dave made a point of saying that wasn't true, Liz got hired by Zane Bresloff.

[flyonthewall2983]

Some of the re-enactments on the Savage episode are hilarious, like Hulk and Randy at a barbecue and the guy squatting over a briefcase. 

[C.S.]

3 hours ago, sek69 said:

Dave made a point of saying that wasn't true, Liz got hired by Zane Bresloff.

Well, can't both be true? Randy made the recommendation and Zane did the actual hiring?  

I mean, it wasn't exactly unheard of in this company for people to lobby for their friends to come in.

[flyonthewall2983]

I'm sure from the moment Randy was in consideration for WCW, the talk of her bringing in probably started immediately whether or not he was involved. 

I don't know all the details but it seems Meltzer is being a little bitchy about this show, especially with the Montreal episode coming up. 

[C.S.]

53 minutes ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

I'm sure from the moment Randy was in consideration for WCW, the talk of her bringing in probably started immediately whether or not he was involved. 

I don't know all the details but it seems Meltzer is being a little bitchy about this show, especially with the Montreal episode coming up. 

I don't know about that. There is nothing logical about immediately jumping to, "Hey, we just signed one of the biggest stars in the history of wrestling, so let's risk making him extremely unhappy right off the bat by bringing in his ex-wife before even talking to him about it or seeing how he feels." There's no way Randy wasn't involved in those discussions, so I don't think it's a stretch that he's the one who lobbied to bring her in. 

I have no idea why Meltzer is being bitchy - I haven't read his tweets and avoid most of them - but the first episode was pretty decent. Maybe subsequent episodes go off the rails? I don't know. The Brody one seems highly talked about, both here and elsewhere, but I haven't seen it yet and won't until Amazon adds it. 

[CarpetCrawler]

47 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I have no idea why Meltzer is being bitchy - I haven't read his tweets and avoid most of them - but the first episode was pretty decent. Maybe subsequent episodes go off the rails? I don't know. The Brody one seems highly talked about, both here and elsewhere, but I haven't seen it yet and won't until Amazon adds it. 

At least as of yesterday, he still hadn't seen the Savage episode, so it has nothing to do with that as far as I know.   He was told the Montreal episode is a bit of a mess with some inaccuracies, and ends a little messy.

Spoiler

According to what Dave was told, Cornette and Russo spend the last bit of the documentary just whining about each other and having nothing to do with Montreal.

 

As for the Savage episode, I absolutely loved it and felt the documentary was carried on its back by Linda Boella's contributions, and it wouldn't have been worth a lick if she wasn't involved, and if Lanny Poffo wasn't involved for that matter.  It was fascinating hearing more about Elizabeth outside of wrestling, and Linda comes off very well in the documentary.  Bruce Prichard did a great job of being the guy who tries to explain the importance of the wrestling parts to outsiders, and it reminds me of how he really can be a great storyteller when he wants to be.

[SomethingSavage]

Bischoff brought it up on one of his 83 Weeks episodes. IIRC, he indicated Randy had a lot to do with Liz getting the gig. Furthermore, even though they were no longer together, Randy would often oversee angles and ideas that were presented to her or created for her.

I know Eric is generally regarded as a bullshitter, but really - he has/had nothing to gain from fabricating something like that.

[flyonthewall2983]

13 hours ago, C.S. said:

I don't know about that. There is nothing logical about immediately jumping to, "Hey, we just signed one of the biggest stars in the history of wrestling, so let's risk making him extremely unhappy right off the bat by bringing in his ex-wife before even talking to him about it or seeing how he feels." There's no way Randy wasn't involved in those discussions, so I don't think it's a stretch that he's the one who lobbied to bring her in. 

Your comment suggests WCW was ran logically. What I'm suggesting is is that the subject could have been brought up by any of the Turner bosses who only had the simplest ideas about wrestling, and not on the inside about things like their personal lives. 

[Afro Steel]

Just watched the Savage episode. I've watched too much Snapped over the years, so the recreations didn't feel that out of place. A couple of them were a bit odd, mainly the one with the wrestlers squatting over the suitcase to drop a deuce.

Co-sign that Linda came across really well and like someone who genuinely cared for Elizabeth. Actually, I think everyone came across pretty well. Prichard was great at explaining some of this stuff in the way that a non-fan could understand and appreciate. And hey, Jake and Scott Hall both looked great, which is nice to see given their past struggles. I thought even Lanny Poffo came off a lot better than he did in that Savage doc WWE did a while back, where he just seemed totally delusional about Randy and some of his questionable tendencies. 

Not really anything new, but I don't go into these programs really expecting too much in the way of revelations. These things should be accessible to people who haven't immersed themselves in wrestling history, and through that lens, I thought this episode did a wonderful job. 

[sek69]

Apparently the Montreal episode leans heavily on already disproven talking points (like Bret was going to take the WWF belt to Nitro so Vince had to do what he did), so I'm sure Dave's already anticipating more idiots coming after him claiming this show proves him wrong some how. He's more or less insinuated he feels the whole subject is done to death, but when something like this comes up he has to talk about it again.