kjh Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Yeah, that's what I was referring to. Obviously we need to see where the storyline goes, but it seems to be sending the message that wrestling is a man's sport and these things will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Wrestling is being scrutinized right now, and it's mocking its own problems in storylines. There are problems inherent with that, yes.Scrutinized by whom? The mainstream press doesn't care. The NFL publishes an injury report every week chock full of concussions, no one bats an eye. The wrestling media isn't big enough to cause a stir. I don't think it is mockery when you consider that a concussion is an inevitable result of a worked wrestling match. It's not unusual like say, having a wrestler fall from a high place (referencing Owen Hart). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 You still don't think the Benoit tragedy, talk of Congressional hearings and WWE suspending/firing/losing the majority of their roster were big stories, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too painful to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. The subject may deny the reality of the unpleasant fact altogether (simple denial), admit the fact but deny its seriousness (minimisation) or admit both the fact and seriousness but deny responsibility (transference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 You still don't think the Benoit tragedy, talk of Congressional hearings and WWE suspending/firing/losing the majority of their roster were big stories, do you?They were big stories. I think their overall impact is minimal, and that's unfortunate. I don't think a cessation of concussion storylines is anything close to the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I don't think a cessation of concussion storylines is anything close to the answer.Nobody's saying it is. It's just a good idea to stop doing them, especially to annoy your enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Yeah, concussion angles right now is pretty much the equivalent to waving your dick around when Congress potentially could bring the hammer down (not saying they will, but if they did small companies like ROH are pretty much fucked). Besides, for a company that hates anything remotely associated with WWE it's a pretty Vince-ish reaction for them to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 This is glorious. I'm reading through old WONs right now and was reading the recap of Capital Combat '90. Check this out. The Rock & Roll Express beat The Freebirds in a Corporal Punishment match in 18:59. I was originally told that Corporal Punishment match was simply Jim Herd's idea for a new name for what was known in Texas and the old UWF as a Country Whipping match, in which all four guys would come in with a leather belt and get to whip each other until they looked like zebras. However, the Rock & Roll weren't in the Mid South when those matches took place, and they were invented (I could be wrong about this but I believe I actually saw the very first one ever on Labor Day of 1983 between Kerry Von Erich and Michael Hayes in Fort Worth) AO (After Ole). Luckily, they never really explained the stipulations on TV. From what little was said, it appeared Morton (the spokesman for his team) thought it was another name for an Indian Strap match (all four tied together with a strap, the old Wahoo McDaniel specialty match from the 70s and early 80s) and the TV show where Ole Anderson did commentary, it appeared Ole also thought it was a new name for an Indian Strap match. A few things happened on the way to this match. First off, it was apparently "supposed" to last more than 25 minutes, which a Country Whipping match simply can't do (you can only avoid beating someone to death with belts for so long before they really are beaten to death). Then a certain individual who will go nameless but his namesake was a famous cowboy was told to buy whips for the match. Instead of buying leather belts, he went to a sex shop and bought a cat-o-nine tails. Well, you certainly can't whip someone with that for 20 minutes either, so they tied the whips to the ropes and used them two or three brief flurries during the match, and aside from those brief flurries it was just a regular match. As a match itself, it was a good match, but it wasn't what was advertised. Finish saw Hayes gave Morton the DDT, and when he went for a second DDT, Morton came off the top ropes with a sunset flip for the pin. **3/4 I'm drawing a blank on who the dude with the namesake of a famous cowboy would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Black Bart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I don't think it is mockery when you consider that a concussion is an inevitable result of a worked wrestling match. Obviously you can't eliminate concussions completely from wrestling, but there is no need to work a match so stiffly that suffering some sort of head trauma becomes very likely and there is definitely no need for wrestlers to work through serious head injuries like concussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Not to be a jackass but I don't really see the problem here. American Dragon who has always worked his matches toward KO/submission(outside of that period where he was bridging the cattle mutilation into a pin) starts stomping on Hero's head , ref calls for stoppage, Hero is carried to back selling loopiness. Later on same show Roderick Strong is brainbustered through a table for a finish. Again looser of match sells can't walk to back under own power and has to be carried to back. He doesn't visually sell loopiness as well as Hero does because Strong doesn't sell as well as Hero does. Main event is a Necro v Brisco fight without honor with multiple chairshots a Deathvalley driver off apron through table, etc. Which one of these hings mocks the danger of concussions? Somehow or other here promotion having guys sell that getting banged in the head is a finisher and should be sold as dangerous is in bad taste and mockery, while no one complains about working a match where guys fight through and toughen out multiple head trauma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Well, two wrongs don't entirely make a right. ROH at least presents wrestling as something serious, so I don't think it's as much an issue there as it is in WWE and TNA, where they present wrestling as an action-based comedy show, which comes across as them saying they think it's HILARIOUS and inspires comedic inspiration when wrestlers die. Whether that's how it's intended or not, that's how it comes across. I'm sure in their minds, they think it's just a case of looking at the bright side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodySave Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 This is glorious. I'm reading through old WONs right now and was reading the recap of Capital Combat '90. Check this out. The Rock & Roll Express beat The Freebirds in a Corporal Punishment match in 18:59. I was originally told that Corporal Punishment match was simply Jim Herd's idea for a new name for what was known in Texas and the old UWF as a Country Whipping match, in which all four guys would come in with a leather belt and get to whip each other until they looked like zebras. However, the Rock & Roll weren't in the Mid South when those matches took place, and they were invented (I could be wrong about this but I believe I actually saw the very first one ever on Labor Day of 1983 between Kerry Von Erich and Michael Hayes in Fort Worth) AO (After Ole). Luckily, they never really explained the stipulations on TV. From what little was said, it appeared Morton (the spokesman for his team) thought it was another name for an Indian Strap match (all four tied together with a strap, the old Wahoo McDaniel specialty match from the 70s and early 80s) and the TV show where Ole Anderson did commentary, it appeared Ole also thought it was a new name for an Indian Strap match. A few things happened on the way to this match. First off, it was apparently "supposed" to last more than 25 minutes, which a Country Whipping match simply can't do (you can only avoid beating someone to death with belts for so long before they really are beaten to death). Then a certain individual who will go nameless but his namesake was a famous cowboy was told to buy whips for the match. Instead of buying leather belts, he went to a sex shop and bought a cat-o-nine tails. Well, you certainly can't whip someone with that for 20 minutes either, so they tied the whips to the ropes and used them two or three brief flurries during the match, and aside from those brief flurries it was just a regular match. As a match itself, it was a good match, but it wasn't what was advertised. Finish saw Hayes gave Morton the DDT, and when he went for a second DDT, Morton came off the top ropes with a sunset flip for the pin. **3/4 I'm drawing a blank on who the dude with the namesake of a famous cowboy would be. My guess is Sam Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Black Bart was in WWF in 1990, and I think Sam Houston was pretty much out of the mainstream wrestling scene entirely by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 If the mystery cowboy turns out to be Stan Hansen, I don't think I'll ever stop laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *FH* Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 lolbart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I would hazard a guess that it refers to Erik Watts, son of "Cowboy" Bill Watts. That would explain the namesake reference. I don't think it is mockery when you consider that a concussion is an inevitable result of a worked wrestling match. Obviously you can't eliminate concussions completely from wrestling, but there is no need to work a match so stiffly that suffering some sort of head trauma becomes very likely and there is definitely no need for wrestlers to work through serious head injuries like concussions. I refer to the booking of a concussion angle. When it comes to concussions themselves, all precautions should be taken to avoid injury and of course that means toning things down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 It was David Crockett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 It was David Crockett. Oh man, can you imagine him in a sex shop? "LOOK AT THAT DILDO, TONY, WATCH 'EM NOW, WATCH EM!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Unholy Dragon Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 I don't think it is mockery when you consider that a concussion is an inevitable result of a worked wrestling match. Obviously you can't eliminate concussions completely from wrestling, but there is no need to work a match so stiffly that suffering some sort of head trauma becomes very likely and there is definitely no need for wrestlers to work through serious head injuries like concussions. Okay, I should note that I just went through Dynamite Kid's book in the span of 48 hours or less. With that disclaimer, I have to say: Suck it the hell up. It's a rough business and people get hurt. If they don't get hurt at least somewhat, the fact is that they probably aren't doing their job right. It's a harsh point, but fairly true imo. I just wish I could be bothered to find Dynamite's actual quote about that, as I do recall him covering it at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Yeah, we should really heed the word of the crazed ex drug addict who's probably only still alive because he ended up wheelchair bound and bedridden before his heart could explode on him or he accidentally OD'd, and whose protege who idolised his toughness and work ethic and followed in his footsteps ended up murdering his family. Suck it the hell up in the wrestling business is really a euphemism for saying that you're a motherfucking pussy if you don't take some fucking pills like everybody else and work hurt. Frankly that macho attitude now nauseates me, because we now know all too well the price of that attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Not to mention that Dynamite Kid "sucking it the hell up" probably had a lot to do with the fact that he was in a wheelchair to begin with. Maybe if he "sucked it the hell up" less and took care of his body more, he'd be walking today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 I don't think it is mockery when you consider that a concussion is an inevitable result of a worked wrestling match. Obviously you can't eliminate concussions completely from wrestling, but there is no need to work a match so stiffly that suffering some sort of head trauma becomes very likely and there is definitely no need for wrestlers to work through serious head injuries like concussions. Okay, I should note that I just went through Dynamite Kid's book in the span of 48 hours or less. With that disclaimer, I have to say: Suck it the hell up. It's a rough business and people get hurt. If they don't get hurt at least somewhat, the fact is that they probably aren't doing their job right. It's a harsh point, but fairly true imo. I just wish I could be bothered to find Dynamite's actual quote about that, as I do recall him covering it at one point. You're a terrible human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Billingtons opinion was pretty much that of most Europeans wrestlers with a sadistic streak. Which was the majority of wrestlers. Of course those wrestlers didn't have access nor had the money to do the drugs he did. But the ideology is rather similar. I read that painkillers were widespread in early 80's soccer and that a lot of players who popped them like candy now have huge joint problems. I always say that DK wouldn't be amputated if he didn't do those ridiculous concrete bumps. His career was a little bit longer than some CZW folks and Mick Foley, who are the only guys who did worse things than he did. DK's attitude regarding injuries was only part of the problem, he did way too many stupid bumps, popped to many pills, took horse steroids and was inable to know when to stop or even rest. How often have we read that a wrestler worked with a broken finger? Now imagine how many times wrestlers have worked through concussions. And it has gotten a lot better in the last 30 years. I know of wrestlers who died in full nelsons during a match or even dropped dead minutes after the match ended and nobody thought anything about it except "well... he probably had an undetected heart condition". Mike DiBiase and other guys worked through heart attacks. In former times some didn't care about a heart attack, now we have Christopher Nowinski who speaks against post-concussion syndroms. So there is some progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *FH* Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Kurt Angle had 4 heart attacks this morning and he's right there, jumpin' around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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