Comments that don't warrant a thread

[Guest Spunk]

Damn it, Cox, I was all prepared to go off ranting on you personally, then you had to spoil it by presenting reasonable and well-written counterpoint to my argument.

 

Danielson does throw his body around with abandon at times in many of his matches, but I would argue that the style he wrestles -- being mainly chain-wrestling-intensive, mat-work-heavy, and character-based with only a small number of relatively dangerous big spots mixed in -- is less damaging overall than the largely chairs-and-tables-based ECW style. I'd also argue that what's most damaging to the wrestlers' bodies and to their emotional well-being is the neverending WWE schedule and the culture of drug abuse that it engenders.

 

I think that Danielson's eye injury was the result of one unlucky strike received while wrestling with a much larger opponent who has a very stiff style. I wouldn't say it's indicative of the risks of US Indy style in general, or of Danielson's style in particular.

 

Also, as I wrote above, Danielson is indeed one of the few who is making a very comfortable living by wrestling a limited schedule in a variety of promotions, including ROH, NOAH, and various US, Canadian, and European Indies. He drives a very nice brand new truck, dresses well, and is hardly starving himself and living in the back of a Buick to pursue his craft.

I don't know. Honestly, do you think because Bryan Danielson likes to do more holds and doesn't drop people on his head that his style is automatically safer for him? I think that means it is safer for his opponent, but when you think about it, 90% of the guys he has to wrestle are not safe and are all about stiff strikes to the head and dropping people on their heads, as well as doing sick dives.

 

This isn't particularly at gordi, but why not; One talking point that I'll never really understand is how WWE's "insane" schedule will kill you, but then on the other hand, there is never ending complaining about how if so-and-so goes to WWE they'll never get a chance to shine and be working short TV matches. Bryan Danielson is the iron man of the US indies, and a lot of people expect to see him and see him go all out for half an hour, or do restholds for half an hour, then a finishing stretch of half an hour to reach a draw. Danielson isn't Flair, and his opponents aren't guys like Dusty Rhodes. Danielson going 60 or even long is a whole different world from what it was in the 70s and 80s to go 60.

 

I'm just not following if its supposed to be 'going to WWE means they will never wrestle' or 'going to WWE means they are going to work too hard' as the main point of contention against the evil Vince empire. In WWE you'll work maybe 4 nights a week, doing maybe a total of 45 minutes of in-ring a week. Working 3 nights in various indies and being a guy like Danielson will probably equal out to about 2 to 2 and a half hours of wrestling, and in a waaaaay more dangerous style. No indy uses road agents to help lay out matches, where they would call you a moron for wanting to go out and get dropped on your head 4 times in a row.

 

While all wrestling is dangerous or potentially dangerous, I think no matter what, being in the business, you are going to take that risk. It is just that certain styles are way more harmful compared to others.

[smkelly]

Hah. I just watched Mickie James vs. Trish Stratus from WrestleMania.

 

JR's comments towards Lawler are awesome.

 

King says Mickie is unbalanced. JR says King would date her. JR then says that she's too old for him since she's in her early twenties.

[kjh]

I think many fans are really in denial about the risks of working a strong Japanese style because Japanese wrestlers aren't dying at the same rate as American wrestlers. It's also a lot easier to deny the risks when that's the style you love to watch.

[Loss]

So I watched some of the extras on the Horsemen DVD yesterday. Good stuff. I was down on it for a little while, but honestly, Flair/Arn is a great match and I don't understand the criticisms of it. You often hear the criticism of this that fights between brothers are usually more violent, but this wasn't really a hate-filled feud. This was a case of a guy who walked behind Ric Flair feeling underappreciated after doing so for 10 years and not really wanting to wrestle his best friend, but having to do so to prove something to Ric and to himself. So you get a lot of mat wrestling early on with Arn doing a lot of arm work to remind Ric where he comes from and make a point that he can keep up with Flair as a wrestler. This storyline was soooo good.

 

Wrestling is often talked about in more detail with more complexity than it deserves. I'm guilty of it plenty, and so are others. But this match is actually a pretty subtle, complex match with some pretty deep layers of storytelling going on, in the context of pro wrestling. The spot where Flair does his typical apron running to fake Arn out then ducks when Arn tries the usual Flair/Sting/Nikita lariat to stop him in his tracks is just greatgreatgreat. Flair still had a lot in the tank in 1995 and Arn was still as good as he always was.

 

I think they could have worked this for a year and gone in a million directions with it, other than the predictable Horsemen reunion the following month by beating up Sting, even if that angle was executed so strongly it had Flair, Arn, and Pillman all shining. The finish with Pillman was well done also, and Arn going over really had to happen.

[Bix]

Japanese wrestlers have ended up with many more...how do I put this...brain injuries that go beyond concussions, though.

[Jingus]

What, you mean like Hashimoto? He's the exception rather than the rule, though. I've always wondered just how the stiffer puro guys do that ghastly style and don't end up hooked on pain pills and such like the Americans do. At least, not to the level that they have problems with guys dropping dead from ODs. Hell, I think more American wrestlers have died that way in Japan than Japanese workers have altogether. Is it just a massive difference in the two cultures where drugs use is more seldom or more disciplined, or what?

[Loss]

Tours, followed by time off.

[Jingus]

Time off can certainly help, a lot, but I don't think it would be enough to single-handedly solve the entire drug problem in wrestling. There's got to be more to it.

[Loss]

There is not anything in existence that would single-handedly eliminate the drug problem in wrestling. Come on.

[Bix]

What, you mean like Hashimoto? He's the exception rather than the rule, though.

I listed them in a thread at KM a couple months ago:

 

Japan seems to have a lot more really devastating head injuries than the US, with Gompei, Ochai, Plum Mariko, Emiko Kado, and Masakazu Fukuda all dying from in-ring head trauma, plus Naohiro Hoshikawa suffering severe brain damage (though he survived, he'll be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life and often has no memory of his career and his friends).

 

On the less severe (but still really bad) side, Yoshihiro Takayama suffered a cerebral thrombosis while wrestling Kensuke Sasaki and was out of action for 2 years.

[Jingus]

Okay, didn't know about the others besides Ochai and Takayama. But still, if they're undergoing THAT much physical brutality, I don't see what's keeping them from taking mountains of oxycontin or various other pain meds that their gaijn cousins enjoy so much.

 

There is not anything in existence that would single-handedly eliminate the drug problem in wrestling. Come on.

I didn't say there was, but you sounded like you were saying that the touring schedule is the only reason why Japanese guys weren't dropping dead of ODs on a consistent basis like the American workers do.

[Tim Evans]

Drug penalties are much stiffer in Japan than they are in the US I beileve. I mean if what happened in the WWE would happen in Japan, guys like Orton would serve Jail time.

[Guest Spunk]

Hell, Arashi got blackballed for smoking weed. Imagine what havoc that could do to American wrestling.

[Bix]

Well, he got blackballed for getting arrested for smoking weed. It's one of those taboos that's only bad if you get caught publicly, like Pride & the Yakuza.

[Guest CompletePlayer]

Hell, Arashi got blackballed for smoking weed. Imagine what havoc that could do to American wrestling.

Now he is back as a regular, under his real name, for MUGA World. Not that being a MUGA World regular means much, but surprised he didn't go to the more sleazy indys.

[MikeCampbell]

So it's already confirmed that Misawa's first ROH match will be Misawa/KENTA vs. Morishima/Marufuji, and rumor has it that night two will be Misawa/KENTA for the GHC. So ROH is shelling out huge money (and charging huge ticket prices) for two matches that could easily happen in NOAH, rather than showcasing their own talent in some form.

 

Maybe I'm just overly cynical with ROH, but does anyone else get the idea that only reason Misawa was even booked was so that Gabe could get the ego boost/bragging rights of saying he got to book Misawa?

[Cox]

If that's the case, way to go Gabe. You are as successful a promoter as Michael Modest.

[Mad Dog]

Just to add a name to the list of puro stars and head trauma, Jushin Liger had a brain tumor back in the 90s that cost him hearing in one ear.

[sek69]

Didn't Sasuke fracture his skull at one point too?

[Bix]

Just to add a name to the list of puro stars and head trauma, Jushin Liger had a brain tumor back in the 90s that cost him hearing in one ear.

Has anyone ever suggested before that it was brought on by trauma?

 

Also, I've never heard of the hearing story.

[sek69]

A non-head injury related thought, HHH makes it a little more difficult to defend him against the internet crybabies when he single handedly beats down the top 2 tag teams on RAW.

[Mad Dog]

Just to add a name to the list of puro stars and head trauma, Jushin Liger had a brain tumor back in the 90s that cost him hearing in one ear.

Has anyone ever suggested before that it was brought on by trauma?

 

Also, I've never heard of the hearing story.

 

Crap, I don't even remember where I heard the hearing loss story anymore. Maybe he talks about it on his RoH shoot interview. I know he talks about the tumor quite a bit on there.

 

As far as if wrestling caused it. Probably not but when you're talking about a style that creates a lot of head trauma and brain damage it makes you wonder a bit if it's related at all.

[smkelly]

So it's already confirmed that Misawa's first ROH match will be Misawa/KENTA vs. Morishima/Marufuji, and rumor has it that night two will be Misawa/KENTA for the GHC. So ROH is shelling out huge money (and charging huge ticket prices) for two matches that could easily happen in NOAH, rather than showcasing their own talent in some form.

 

Maybe I'm just overly cynical with ROH, but does anyone else get the idea that only reason Misawa was even booked was so that Gabe could get the ego boost/bragging rights of saying he got to book Misawa?

I KNOW. I've been saying that since they announced the matches.

 

Although to be honest, no one on the ROH roster right now would be believable enough to have a chance against Misawa.

[sek69]

Would it be fair to assume Misawa probably cost Gabe a good bit of cash considering how he allegedly dislikes Americans? If so, nice to know his brains aren't scrambled to the point where he can't still fleece a money mark when he sees one.

[Jingus]

As far as if wrestling caused it. Probably not but when you're talking about a style that creates a lot of head trauma and brain damage it makes you wonder a bit if it's related at all.

No. Concussions =/= carcinogens.

 

I thought Kawada was the one who hated him some gaijin? Mitsuhara sure books enough of 'em in his company. But anyway, yeah, dumb decision on Gabe's part to book Misawa just against his fellow NOAH guys in matches anyone can get from any tape dealer. Makes me think that Joebashi was kind of a fluke.

 

Another "yea" here for the Triple H Is Back To His Old Crap belief. I jumped off the HHHate bandwagon a couple years ago, but bullshit like what happened tonight is enough to make me want to climb back on.