Comments that don't warrant a thread

[Loss]

Well TNA runs in the south, and ROH runs in the northeast, are you saying TNA > ROH in those departments?

No.

 

Southern style is dead, as Jingus mentioned. There's really not much regional difference in wrestling crowds and styles anymore, unless you're comparing wrestling styles internationally.

[Al]

One thing I appreciated about Gorilla is how he would mention assaulting/bullying the referee would result in a fine. Or that the winner would take home more money than the loser. Simple stuff like that explains why wrestlers are trying to win. I mean, is it ever explained what incentive wrestlers have today?

 

As far as the tangents go, I listen to quite a few baseball broadcasts where the announcers trail off the subject during a dull spot in a baseball game. When it comes to a house show in particular, you're really just selling a main event and filling out the card to kill time in the evening. Having the announcers interject a bit of personality at these points makes the card more enjoyable. During one card a couple months ago, Jesse asked Gorilla about touring the USSR as an amateur wrestler. I thought that was interesting.

 

Of course I'm likely a bit biased. Gorilla Monsoon was just an extremely likable character.

[Strummer]

I agree that it's tough to hear people criticize Gorilla when you grew up on him and were basically taught the psychology of wrestling by him.

 

He was *the* voice of the WWF during the first boom

 

 

Yes he said ridiculous things but so has every wrestling announcer in history. I have to believe that some of the hate stems from the hardcore NWA fans hating his hyperbole about WWF wrestling. I can see Meltzer in 1986 rolling his eyes as Gorilla was saying "You can't see action like this anywhere but in the World Wrestling Federation"

 

It's hard to explain but Gorilla made wrestling feel important. That's why I didn't mind him criticizing wrestlers for blowing moves or not hooking the leg. He treated it like a real sport. Athletes should be criticized for making mistakes in games just like a wrestler should be criticized for making mistakes in matches.

 

He made it seem like life or death on who won a Dino Bravo/Ron Garvin match. That takes talent

[Loss]

It doesn't come from that, as much as it comes from the fact that he always got praise from fans who grew up on WWF wrestling, when other fans just knew there was absolutely no comparison between him and a Jim Ross or Gordon Solie or Lance Russell. The frustration comes from people, even now, talking about how great Gorilla and Jesse were as a team, but you rarely hear anything about how awesome Jim Ross was around the same time. Gorilla Monsoon and Jim Ross share the same relationship as Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair.

 

Gorilla is definitely better than JR since 1999 or so.

 

Every announcer has phrases, but I always felt Gorilla was little more than "Will you stop?", "Highly unlikely", "Terry Garvin School of Self Defense", "As our friend Mean Gene says, close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades" and everything else he said on practically every single show he ever announced. Kinda felt like if you'd heard him call one match, you'd heard him call every match.

 

I think Vince is the best announcer to ever work in the WWF, and he could be pretty annoying at times himself.

[ohtani's jacket]

Man, Gorilla and Jesse & Gorilla & Heenan would be the last thing I ever criticised in wrestling.

 

The sheer amount of shit they commentated through is staggering. I love Lance Russell and Ken Walton, but Lance would need a whole 'nother carton of cigarettes to get through that shit.

[Grimmas]

I really enjoy listening to Gorilla, but I don't think he did so much to add to matches. Jim Ross blows him away, as stated before. Heck, I'd take Lance Russel before him too.

[sek69]

It's sort of been touched upon, but Gorilla had to call a lot of boring ass matches. 80s WWF shows had a lot of 20 minute matches between jobbers that were fucking ponderous to sit through as a fan, let alone have to call them as anything remotely close to exciting. I never held it against Gorilla or any WWF announcer if they strayed off topic at the 10-15 minute mark of a Steve Lombardi - Dr. X match, honestly anything that kept you from falling asleep was a major bonus.

 

This may be sacrilege, but I personally can't stand Gordon Solie. If he isn't toasted, he's completely flat and monotone - he's like the Steven Wright of wrestling commentary. He's especially hard to watch on the Championship Wrestling from Florida shows. There's segments where he's trying to recap an angle and he just seems to ramble with lots of "umm"s, which seems like a minor thing to complain about but it's one of those things that once you notice it, it's like the most annoying thing ever.

[Loss]

80s Solie is a lot like 00s Jim Ross and isn't something I'm crazy about.

 

The 70s stuff I've heard from him has been pretty good.

[tomk]

The standard crit of Monsoon is the same as the standard criticism of Mean Gene. The self agrandizement. Insistence that he is tougher than everyone else in wrestling.

 

Neither Solie, Ross, or Russell (or 80s Mcmahon) ever portrayed themselves as being tougher than the wrestlers.

 

There's really not much regional difference in wrestling crowds and styles anymore, unless you're comparing wrestling styles internationally.

I don't buy that.

 

As there is a difference between the audiences I've been in in Northeast and the audiences been in in the South East or South West.

 

The audience for FIP is very different from the audience for ROH and the shows with same roster tend to reflect that difference.

[ohtani's jacket]

Mean Gene made that guy put his cigarette out.

[sek69]

Well none of those other announcers were former wrestlers, so it would have sounded strange for them to say they were tougher than anyone. The only thing negative I can think of was that they didn't really mention a lot about Gorilla's past, so a lot of the newer fans at the time had no idea he used to wrestle. I know I didn't realize that for a long time after I started watching WWF TV. Even then, it never really sank in until that one Halloween episode of Prime Time when Gorilla walks in as the payoff to the gag about the gorilla mask where I realized how much he towered over the set.

 

Plus you'd think it would be obvious that a lot of the "you can only see action this great in the WWF" stuff was coming directly from Vince. I mean, Tony gets a pass for all the bash-the-competition nonsense he said on Nitro because Bischoff told him to (like spoiling Foley's title win) yet Gorilla gets hammered for parroting lines clearly coming from the boss?

[Loss]

When has Tony ever gotten a pass for that? That pretty much killed him as an announcer.

[Loss]

I don't buy that.

 

As there is a difference between the audiences I've been in in Northeast and the audiences been in in the South East or South West.

 

The audience for FIP is very different from the audience for ROH and the shows with same roster tend to reflect that difference.

How much of that do you think is booking?

 

I just remember how at Wrestle War '90 in Greensboro, Cornette did the spot where he and the referee got in a shoving match and the fight had to be broken up by the wrestlers and the crowd went absolutely crazy for it. He tried the same spot in '98 in the same arena and it played to crickets.

[S.L.L.]

Well none of those other announcers were former wrestlers, so it would have sounded strange for them to say they were tougher than anyone. The only thing negative I can think of was that they didn't really mention a lot about Gorilla's past, so a lot of the newer fans at the time had no idea he used to wrestle.

I don't know. I remember a lot of comments about what happened before Gorilla "threw his tights into the Pacific Ocean". Not a lot of specifics, but I got the idea that he had been a wrestler pretty quickly.

 

Incidentally, I always thought it'd be really cool if, were pro wrestlers ever to actually retire, they had retirement ceremonies that closed with them throwing their tights into the Pacific Ocean. So I guess that's a positive for Gorilla's commentary.

 

Plus you'd think it would be obvious that a lot of the "you can only see action this great in the WWF" stuff was coming directly from Vince. I mean, Tony gets a pass for all the bash-the-competition nonsense he said on Nitro because Bischoff told him to (like spoiling Foley's title win) yet Gorilla gets hammered for parroting lines clearly coming from the boss?

What Loss said. No one ever gave Tony a pass for anything from that period.

[S.L.L.]

I don't buy that.

 

As there is a difference between the audiences I've been in in Northeast and the audiences been in in the South East or South West.

 

The audience for FIP is very different from the audience for ROH and the shows with same roster tend to reflect that difference.

How much of that do you think is booking?

 

I just remember how at Wrestle War '90 in Greensboro, Cornette did the spot where he and the referee got in a shoving match and the fight had to be broken up by the wrestlers and the crowd went absolutely crazy for it. He tried the same spot in '98 in the same arena and it played to crickets.

 

Also worth noting that, aside from regional differences, you're looking at a major difference in crowd makeup between ROH and FIP. Big difference between ROH playing to an audience of internet smarks, and FIP playing to a more traditional family audience. In fairness, I get the sense that you're more likely to find the former in the north and the latter in the south these days, but I'm not sure it's a strictly regional difference as much as a demographic difference that coincides with a regional difference to some extent.

[Jingus]

Yes, exactly. Like I was mentioning earlier, the different indy shows I worked: some of those crowds didn't have a single smark in the building. Others were half-full of internet college-boy "cheer the heels" types. You also had exceptions like NWA Wildside, where the majority of the crowd were smarkish. The different types of shows will draw different types of crowds. Plus it matters whether you're in the middle of a population center or not (i.e., downtown Nashville will draw more smarts than Bucksnort will).

 

On the subject of Gorilla: I've always liked his commentary. Not the greatest of all time, but damn good in that "calling a big show with Ventura/Heenan next to him" kind of way. Hell, even his stuff with Johnny Polo was entertaining, Gorilla had great chemistry with a wide variety of partners. Sure, he could easily trail off subject around the tenth minute of an Outback Jack vs. Hercules match, but every announcer is guilty of that at times. One thing I'll give him extra credit for is being, to my knowledge, the only wrestler to ever successfully make the jump to play-by-play commentator. Plenty of ex-workers have become color guys, but Monsoon to my knowledge is the only former pro to flourish in the lead announcer spot.

 

Gordon Solie: some people swear by him as the ultimate authority in dry low-key announcing; others just find him boring as hell for his repetitive calls and lack of enthusiasm. He certainly did influence an entire generation of wrestling announcers, you can hear traces of his style in everyone from Lance Russell to Jim Ross. One thing I've heard is that he tended to be a much better performer when he was calling prerecorded material in the studio and was prepared rather than calling the action live.

 

I think Vince is the best announcer to ever work in the WWF

...what?! (Or should that be, "whatamaneuver!"?)

[Bix]

I think Vince is the best announcer to ever work in the WWF

...what?! (Or should that be, "whatamaneuver!"?)

I think he meant pre-expansion.

[Loss]

Pre-Hogan era Vince was pretty awesome, and I still think he was quite good early on. The shameless sucking up to the babyfaces and talking over everyone else in the booth as time went on did eventually get old, though.

[Loss]

Tony was bad at times. Tony was good at times. I thought he and Jim Ross worked well together, especially when Ross was the primary guy and Schiavone was there for color. He was also really good in the early days of the NWO at getting them over. I do think by 1998, he was desperately in need of some time off that he never got.

[Tim Evans]

Also worth noting that, aside from regional differences, you're looking at a major difference in crowd makeup between ROH and FIP. Big difference between ROH playing to an audience of internet smarks, and FIP playing to a more traditional family audience. In fairness, I get the sense that you're more likely to find the former in the north and the latter in the south these days, but I'm not sure it's a strictly regional difference as much as a demographic difference that coincides with a regional difference to some extent.

It will be interesting when ROH comes down here for the Pre Wrestlemania shows. I'm guessing the crowd will mostly be TNA/Smark crowd but I remember when I use to go to WWE shows at the Orlando Arena that the crowd was mostly families that loved the rock and would chant "Rocky" all night long.

 

About the announcing debate: I grew up with Jim Ross calling matches. He's my favorite because he made me care about 100% more in the matches than a guy like Michael Cole or Tony Schivonie. I've watched a lot of Gorilla over the years Via Video tape and he was a whole different beast. Sure he wasn't the best at calling matches but he made you stay there with his commentary with The Brain or Jesse.

 

Oh and Lance/Dave> Gordon/Buddy. Lance's selling of angles was just awesome. No knock on Gordon. I think he was better in Georgia than he was in Florida. I also liked Bob Caudle but i've only seen his NWA stuff.

[sek69]

Pretty much any time Mick Foley ever discussed his title win being spoiled (including on the Legends show on 24/7), he would say he didn't blame Tony because he was just doing what he was told to do by Bischoff.

[Al]

Gorilla had a good pace and tone of voice that quite a few announcers can't seem to master anymore. Part of being a good/great announcer isn't what you say, but how you say it. Monsoon's pace was spot on, getting excited when necessary and toning it down as the situation called. Jim Ross is still excellent at this point, particularly when calling a Jeff Hardy comeback. (The Undertaker/Jeff Hardy ladder match is a great example of this.)

 

We could easily do a thread of nothing but Gorilla Monsoon repeated quotes.

[Johnny Sorrow]

What I always loved about Vince as a commentatar even post expansion was that he made every match feel important. I remember an interview with Joey Styles back in the height of ECW being hot and they asked him who his favorite announcers were. This was during that period of time where Styles was the golden boy of announcers among fans, and he said Jim Ross and Vince McMahon. The interviewer was shocked that Styles said Vince and Styles said something along the lines of Ross for his knowledge and passion and Vince for the reason I stated above.

[sek69]

From WWE.com:

 

Carlito – Off the P25. Not so cool, huh, Carlito? The Caribbean Bad Apple reaps the reward of being lazy to the core lately

 

Guess the rumors of Carlito putting in his notice are correct. I wonder what happened to get him so deep in the doghouse.

[Loss]

Probably that he's a horrible wrestler who isn't good enough to compete on the main roster, and has absolutely nothing going for him.