Boondocks Kernoodle Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Yeah, because God knows Dave is so much higher on Batista than he is on Samoa Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 I don't know how to really explain the difference, but I'm sure if you asked him, he'd probably say Morishima is better than Hashimoto ever was. I won't go as far as to say it has nothing to do with bodies, but I don't think it's solely body type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Yet wasn't Dave always on the WWF's case in the 80s for emphasizing the big chiseled bodies?While criticizing "slobs," yes. He would also use buzzwords, like calling someone like Adonis "a great big man" while Brody was "a great big athlete" or something like that. Dave is a complicated dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Don't forget about "Junkfood Dog." But of course, JYD didn't exactly shy away from the roids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autoclave Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Saying "Barton Fink" is about wrestling is stretching pretty hard. By the same standard you'd probably say it was a William Faulkner biopic. There is at least one scene where Turturro has a wrestling movie screened for him. It's not about wrestling, just throwing out an example of something that is both good and has some in it. It's an Odets biopic, kind of. George Steele's wrestling scene in Ed Wood was well done. Again, totally not about wrestling, but I'd rather loosen the definition than settle for Body Slam. I never saw Nacho Libre, was told that it was kind of dumb but made by wrestling fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Nacho Libre is clearly aimed at a kiddie demographic. It has its moments, but overall it's not the type of movie older wrestling fans will get much out of it... even if Silver King is in a featured role. And yes, the character Silver King portrays is clearly based on Mil Mascaras and the idea that Mascaras is an arrogant SOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 It's not really that surprising coming from Dave. Hashimoto isn't really the type of wrestler Dave normally gets excited about. The comments about Mutoh being a more spectacular worker didn't bother me as much as the downplaying of his historical significance. I mean the North American equivalent of saying Hashimoto was only close to being an all time great is saying Steve Austin was only close to being an all time great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Yet wasn't Dave always on the WWF's case in the 80s for emphasizing the big chiseled bodies?While criticizing "slobs," yes. He would also use buzzwords, like calling someone like Adonis "a great big man" while Brody was "a great big athlete" or something like that. Dave is a complicated dude. Earlier this decade, regularly saying that WWF wrestler "X" was better than indy wrestler "Y" because WWF wrestler "X" had "polish", which, best I could tell, came in syringes. Dave is definitely a guy who is not above saying one thing and meaning another, or pushing an idea so long as he's not presented with the alternative which he likes less. Not sure how much any of that has to do with his stand on Hashimoto, but as we've learned from his stances on Jumbo, Backlund, Flair, Michaels, Angle, and others, Dave has a tendency to get locked into certain opinions, and a compulsion to "legitimize" said opinions as something beyond "well, I just don't dig Hashimoto as much as Mutoh for whatever reason", with the results often not exactly jibing with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Muto was more popular in Japan than Hashimoto and you can never discount that from Dave's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Was he though? Until 1995 or so, I would say yes; but after that, it seemed like Hashimoto eclipsed him - both in drawing power and crowd reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 If you go to the rental store, there's a whole row of Muta/Muto VHS tapes and a handful of Hashimoto tapes. Even the smallest video shop has Muto videos and no Hashimoto tapes. You can even rent the movies he was in. He still gets his face plastered on pachinko machines, he's on TV regularly and in TV dramas. I don't think Hashimoto was ever as mainstream as Muto, regardless of how much people read into numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 I don't think Dave downgrades Hashimoto because of his physique. I've been reading Dave since the 80's and have never gotten the impression that physiques were a huge deal to him. But the man does like his fast-paced matches with lots of high spots. He always has. I love Dave but it's one of his quirks. He's always loved Vader. He loves Morishima's NOAH work where he bumps around like a pinball and does lots of cool stuff. It's why he gave the first DG ROH match five stars, or why he used to go nuts with the star ratings for X-Division matches. Hashimoto probably didn't do enough cool stuff for his liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 So could I say that Muto was the Japanese Rock and Hashimoto was the Japanese Foley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 I was actually trying to think of a comparison kinda like that. I suppose Chono would be Austin? But if you keep extrapolating it, it gets rather funny: Undertaker = Choshu, Hogan = Inoki, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'm not sure who they're comparable to, but Muto's a hell of a lot more popular in Japan than people make out. I don't really understand where the Muto was a poor draw thing comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Do people say that he was a poor draw or that, when the chips were down, Choshu usually turned to Hash as his headliner? It could be true that Mutoh garnered more mainstream popularity but that Hash was the ace of New Japan. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Anyway, they were both massive stars and one shouldn't have to pause when asked if either should be remembered as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Attempting to play devil's advocate, is it possible Muto is like a Sting or Undertaker type who has been pushed as a top star so long that he's well known and has gotten lots of publicity, but isn't necessarily a strong draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Pardon my interruption of a discussion that could take its own thread, but since the original post title is as such... Speaking of wrestling movies, apparently there was this movie called Wrestlemaniac, apparently a horror movie starring Rey Misterio (I assume it's Jr.) as a masked wrestler who likes to rip people's faces off. And, of course, the victims he seeks out are filiming a porn flick. Did this even make it to theaters? It's the first time I ever heard of this movie. And they wanted $15 for it at Kmart (no, I didn't buy it, I just glanced at it and had no clue this movie even existed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Pardon my interruption of a discussion that could take its own thread, but since the original post title is as such... Speaking of wrestling movies, apparently there was this movie called Wrestlemaniac, apparently a horror movie starring Rey Misterio (I assume it's Jr.) as a masked wrestler who likes to rip people's faces off. And, of course, the victims he seeks out are filiming a porn flick. Did this even make it to theaters? It's the first time I ever heard of this movie. And they wanted $15 for it at Kmart (no, I didn't buy it, I just glanced at it and had no clue this movie even existed). It's Rey Misterio Sr. If it were Junior it would have gotten a great deal more attention. As it is, I think they made the movie in Mexico and hoped to make money here by using the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 I thought it was Hijo Del Rey Misterio, Sr.'s son? I know they go around the country selling the guy like he's Rey Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 The guy starring in Wrestlemaniac is Rey Misterio Sr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Might be a silly question, but I was wondering what is the earliest recorded footage of someone pulling off an Asai Moonsault? I was watching some 1989 lucha libre, and was really surprised to see Atlantis bust out a great looking Asai Moonsault outside the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autoclave Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 While we're back in the rhythm of little stuff not requiring its own thread, a really quick Coliseum Home Video question. During the little orchestral opening where they splice moments from 80s WWF with stills of Greek wrestling imagery and whatnot, they show two short clips of a match from MSG between two masked guys, one in a silver mask in red and blue gear, the other a black mask with black and white gear. First clip's of silver mask bodyslamming black mask off the top rope, second clip's of black mask lariating silver mask as he bounces off the ropes. Both look to be almost middle/cruiserweight size, smaller than the average Titan star of the day. I feel like I remember seeing the match on a different CHV, but can't place who these guys were. Anyone happen to know what I'm rambling about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Tiger Mask and Cobra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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