The Cancellation of Jim Cornette

[Migs]

It's bizarre to me that a guy as dedicated to the numbers as Cornette, who spent his life being interested in what drew people and money, is now basically "I don't like Omega so he can't be a draw."

[Blehschmidt]

This apparently in reference to Meltzer saying that Omega/Okada is a bigger draw and better match than Flair/Steamboat.

 

[GSR]

Just now, NintendoLogic said:

Meltzer had always defended Cornette even when they vehemently disagreed about modern wrestling, but it looks like Cornette wants to burn that bridge.

What's the state of play with Cornette and Bolin these days?  If Corny can sever friendships with his best friend no surprise he can fall out /lose it with Dave.

The way things are going the only friend he'll have left is that sycophant Last, who is quite happy to slag Dave off and make fun of him with Corny but will then use Dave as a vehicle to plug and promote his Arezzi podcast.

 

[paul sosnowski]

@TheJimCornette

2h

 

Replying to

@davemeltzerWON

Dave I've been sick all week so fuck it. You call this Harpo Marx motherfucker a goddamn "genius" at match layout, better'n Flair/Steamboat, blah fuckin blah. He wrestled sex dolls & kids, he's a phony clown & embarrassment. Fuck him, quit swinging on his dick or fuck you. FUCK!

[FMKK]

Jim is so pathetic. It's wrestling. I know his twitter persona is meant to be drumming up business for his podcast and merch gimmicks but he's beyond working himself into a shoot. He's really no different to Russo, Bischoff, Prichard etc by this point. And he'll be remembered way more for this stuff than any positive contribution he may have made to wrestling. It's amazing how much AEW existing and doing relatively well has broken his brain.

[sek69]

21 minutes ago, FMKK said:

It's amazing how much AEW existing and doing relatively well has broken his brain.

This seems to be the root issue here. I'd bet Cornette was convinced AEW would fail since it's all the people he hates coming together to form a promotion. The fact that it not only didn't fail but was able to turn into a profitable business ahead of schedule seems to have hurt him on a psychological level. Seeing something that so encapsulates what he dislikes being accepted on a national level appears to turn in to him internalizing it as wrestling fans giving him the finger personally. 

[FMKK]

He honestly might be more pissed off about their success than Vince McMahon

[sek69]

It's one thing to work a gimmick, it's another to seemingly torch long time real life friendships over having an IRL Prinicipal Skinner "No, it's the children who are wrong" moment.

[Migs]

3 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

This apparently in reference to Meltzer saying that Omega/Okada is a bigger draw and better match than Flair/Steamboat.

 

In another tweet, when confronted with the numbers that support at least the draw aspect, he said "the Japanese are into some weird shit."

[FMKK]

As if Omega vs Okada wouldn't sell out a US arena. If that were to be announced with 6 months promotion, it would be a show fans would travel for.

[The Thread Killer]

5 hours ago, GSR said:

What's the state of play with Cornette and Bolin these days?  If Corny can sever friendships with his best friend no surprise he can fall out /lose it with Dave.

I don't blame Cornette for breaking ties with Kenny Bolin.  Kenny Bolin had been friends with Jim Cornette and his family since they were children. Then a few years ago, Bolin made friends with Vince Russo and tried to broker some sort of deal on Russo's behalf where Cornette and Russo would have a worked podcast "debate" or something.  Of course Bolin would financially benefit from the whole deal, even though he knew that Cornette hated Russo for getting him fired twice. It was Cornette's reaction to that whole fiasco that caused Russo to file the restraining order against Cornette, and (if you believe Russo, which is a big "if") Russo has claimed that it was Bolin who convinced him to get the protection order because Cornette was legitimately violent and would really attack him, if given the chance.

The whole breakdown in the relationship with Cornette and Meltzer has been coming for some time.  It's been funny, for years Jim Cornette has been the one Pro Wrestling insider who loudly praised Meltzer's work and defended him to the hilt when guys like Bischoff and especially Prichard ripped on him.  Cornette has loudly called Prichard out for bashing Meltzer in the past, and vehemently defended Dave.  Cornette had Meltzer on his podcast as a guest last year where they basically "agreed to disagree" about PWG, modern wrestling and the Bucks and Omega. (AEW wasn't a thing yet at that time.)  So I don't think that you can lay all of the blame on this relationship going down the tubes on just Meltzer being an AEW fanboy.

Their relationship seemed to start to get rocky when Meltzer made the statement that the Young Bucks are the modern equivalent of the Midnight Express.  Cornette was already pissed off at Meltzer about that when the whole deal happened with Cornette's infamous joke on NWA Power that culminated in his quitting the NWA.  Meltzer did a major story on the whole thing, but never even bothered to call Cornette and ask his side of the story or get a quote from him.  That seemed to pretty much be the straw that broke the camel's back on that relationship.

2 hours ago, FMKK said:

He's really no different to Russo, Bischoff, Prichard etc by this point...it's amazing how much AEW existing and doing relatively well has broken his brain.

Of course he's just like those other guys, that's the whole point.  For people that think Cornette is actually upset that AEW is having a degree of success, I would disagree.  Brian Last has come out and admitted that ever since he and Cornette have been reviewing Dynamite every week on The Jim Cornette Experience, their numbers have gone up and stayed up.  Last claims (and I believe it) that they keep setting new records for how many people are listening to them.  Proof of that is the fact they actually changed the day they record and release the show, just so they can rip on AEW every week now. 

I remember when Bill Clinton was elected to a second term, and somebody in an interview said to Rush Limbaugh that he must be really upset about it.  Limbaugh just laughed and pointed out that his ratings had never been higher than they were when he had the Clinton Administration as his punching bag.  Cornette and Brian Last probably danced a jig when Dynamite got renewed for 3 more years.  That's three years of easy material for them, now they don't even have to plan out anything for Friday podcast like they used to...they just review Dynamite and that's all they need to do.

[The Thread Killer]

5 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

This apparently in reference to Meltzer saying that Omega/Okada is a bigger draw and better match than Flair/Steamboat.

I've seen people here at PWO say that the Omega/Okada matches are better than the Flair/Steamboat Trilogy as well.  I guess it's a matter of taste, but I totally don't get that at all.  I don't give a crap about the "drawing" aspect of the argument, (I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the Flair/Steamboat matches really didn't draw all that great) but I sure don't think the Omega matches are actually better Pro Wrestling matches. 

[sek69]

9 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

I remember when Bill Clinton was elected to a second term, and somebody in an interview said to Rush Limbaugh that he must be really upset about it.  Limbaugh just laughed and pointed out that his ratings had never been higher than they were when he had the Clinton Administration as his punching bag.  Cornette and Brian Last probably danced a jig when Dynamite got renewed for 3 more years.  That's three years of easy material for them, now they don't even have to plan out anything for Friday podcast like they used to...they just review Dynamite and that's all they need to do.

I have no doubt this was true, at least for a while, but he's seemed to have crossed into full "worked into a shoot" territory.  He seems extremely (for lack of a better fitting word) triggered by Dave constantly pointing out that he's no better than the old guard in previous generations who claimed the new era are killing the business with their flippy stuff only for them to be considered legendary by that era's fans.  It boils down to Dave saying "you may not like it, but it draws money so in business terms it has just as much merit as the stuff you liked" and Jim getting disproportionately angry over it. 

[C.S.]

Guys, you all have to come to terms with the fact that Cornette is seriously ill. There's no other explanation. It's sad. 

[The Thread Killer]

Cornette's got a wicked temper and says a lot of outrageous shit, but he is not mentally ill.  That's ridiculous.

[The Thread Killer]

2 hours ago, sek69 said:

It boils down to Dave saying "you may not like it, but it draws money so in business terms it has just as much merit as the stuff you liked" and Jim getting disproportionately angry over it. 

There is no doubt that Cornette's real anger about most things ends up being absolutely disproportionate.  He was ranting about Donald Trump this past week, and went on some diatribe about how all people who voted for Trump should be tattooed with a letter "T" on their foreheads so people can identify them and blame them in public.  He further went on one of his typical two-dimensional, overly simplified political tirades about all Republicans, during which and he strongly implied that he doesn't want anybody who is a Republican or who is politically conservative listening to his shows - while Brian Last frantically tried to contain him.  Last tried in vain to dial Cornette back by pointing out that many of Cornette's fans were people who might be conservative or vote Republican but are not Trump supporters...but Cornette was in full insane mode and wouldn't hear it.  Most of Cornette's responses are not rational or proportionate, but much like his infamous joke on NWA Power, I also don't think they reflect his actual beliefs.  I honestly believe it's part heat of the moment tirade and part shtick. And I honestly don't know where the line is, but I still think a large amount of the stuff he does and says are him working both his own fans and the people who hate him.

[sek69]

24 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

Cornette's got a wicked temper and says a lot of outrageous shit, but he is not mentally ill.  That's ridiculous.

Especially coming from the board's #1 Mauro fan to boot. 

You can say a lot about Corny, but mentally ill is not one of them unless you're going to call being stuck in his own ways to a self-parodying degree a mental illness now (which it is not). 

It is pretty funny he has such a hatred for Trump, yet he reacts pretty much the same way when presented with someone or something he doesn't like. Someone should point that out to him one day and see if his head explodes.

[The Thread Killer]

21 minutes ago, sek69 said:

It is pretty funny he has such a hatred for Trump, yet he reacts pretty much the same way when presented with someone or something he doesn't like. Someone should point that out to him one day and see if his head explodes.

That is one of the things about him which I find hilarious.  He's about as politically liberal as you can possibly get, (he is vocally pro-gun control, pro-socialized medicine, pro-abortion, pro-union and anti-big business...plus he never shuts up about how great Obama was) but at the same time his comments on Muslims are infamous and resulted in his previous co-host quitting the podcast. And he reacts to criticism exactly like somebody who is alt-right.

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Especially coming from the board's #1 Mauro fan to boot. 

You can say a lot about Corny, but mentally ill is not one of them unless you're going to call being stuck in his own ways to a self-parodying degree a mental illness now (which it is not). 

It is pretty funny he has such a hatred for Trump, yet he reacts pretty much the same way when presented with someone or something he doesn't like. Someone should point that out to him one day and see if his head explodes.

Not sure how the hell my comment got turned into something about Trump.

Cornette's off-the-wall rants about wrestling are not any more or less problematic than they ever were, and not what I was ever talking about. Cornette legitimately burning bridges with close long-time friends like Dave is extremely distressing and a very bad sign. That is what I meant.

Implying that I would be flippant about mental illness (your "Mauro's #1 fan" crack) is cheap and unfair. I definitely could've and should've been clearer in my original post, so that's on me, but I wasn't referencing stupid shit he said on a podcast I don't even listen to - I meant the Dave stuff.

[joeg]

Wasn't average attendance for the Flair vs Steamboat matches in 89 only like 6,000?  Those matches happened at a low point for NWA/WCW so its not fair to compare to Omega's NJPW run. I've said it before here, but I feel as though if you gave any half way decent gaijin in that spot where a big 2 year long push was followed by main event programs with Okada, Jericho, and Tanahashi and they would have drawn the same. Jay White and AJ Styles attendance number as champs and as top gaijins are slightly better that Omega in that same spot. If there's to be an arguement about Omega as a draw, its not that his run didn't draw well, but rather it drew well because of who he was working with and he drew comparably to other people who were in that same spot. 

[sek69]

4 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Not sure how the hell my comment got turned into something about Trump.

Cornette's off-the-wall rants about wrestling are not any more or less problematic than they ever were, and not what I was ever talking about. Cornette legitimately burning bridges with close long-time friends like Dave is extremely distressing and a very bad sign. That is what I meant.

Implying that I would be flippant about mental illness (your "Mauro's #1 fan" crack) is cheap and unfair. I definitely could've and should've been clearer in my original post, so that's on me, but I wasn't referencing stupid shit he said on a podcast I don't even listen to - I meant the Dave stuff.

I made the comment because Cornette is an unabashed disliker of Trump but acts exactly like him when upset. Had nothing to do with your comment, was in response to Thread Killer's comment on how Jim reacts the same way to politics he doesn't like as he does with wrestling.

I can see how my Mauro crack could be seen as a cheap shot, but it was meant as a way to illustrate diagnosing mental illness over the internet isn't exactly something that flies anymore (not that it ever should have, but I digress). Unless you were trying to infer he had some sort of physical illness and I misread your intentions.

[C.S.]

54 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I can see how my Mauro crack could be seen as a cheap shot, but it was meant as a way to illustrate diagnosing mental illness over the internet isn't exactly something that flies anymore (not that it ever should have, but I digress). Unless you were trying to infer he had some sort of physical illness and I misread your intentions.

I don’t think Jim developed bipolar disorder at 64 years old, if that’s what you mean. But I do strongly suspect some sort of cognitive condition, like dementia maybe. But you are right that making a diagnosis over the internet is a futile task. Either way, I take absolutely no pleasure in this - I feel sad for Jim.

[The Thread Killer]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

But I do strongly suspect some sort of cognitive condition, like dementia maybe.

Jim Cornette does not have a cognitive condition, and he especially doesn't have dementia.  If you know the diagnostic criteria for most cognitive conditions (especially dementia) and you listen to one episode of his Drive Thru podcast, you would see that he exhibits literally none of the symptoms of a cognitive disorder. Not a one.

Jim Cornette's memory and ability to recall details are legendary. He can remember dates of shows, towns he worked in and even ridiculous minutiae like what color blazer he wore at a particular event.  He can remember where he ate after shows that took place over 30 years ago, and can say what he ordered and how the food was. (A topic that comes up with strange regularity on his podcast, for some reason.) Just a couple of weeks ago on the Drive-Thru, Brian Last asked Cornette about a particular promo he had cut when he was a rookie in Memphis, (when Cornette was starting his first stable) that Last had seen on YouTube. Without seeing the promo again, Cornette was able to recall exactly when he had cut the promo, who the promo was directed at, and he even recited it again from memory, practically verbatim. Brian Last was amazed, and that happens on an almost weekly basis - his incredible memory for detail is one of the main features of his Monday podcast.

Jim Cornette is an asshole.  He might be an exceptionally unpleasant asshole, even when compared to other assholes, but that doesn't make him mentally ill. It just makes him an asshole.

[Stiva]

Say what you will but #FUCK is a great hashtag. 

[JNLister]

11 hours ago, FMKK said:

As if Omega vs Okada wouldn't sell out a US arena. If that were to be announced with 6 months promotion, it would be a show fans would travel for.

It obviously wasn't announced in any way, but IIRC, at the point the MSG tickets went on sale it wouldn't have been unreasonable to hope/think/predict Omega-Okada would wind up headlining.