Tenese Sarwieh Posted December 5, 2019 Report Share Posted December 5, 2019 With the decade being wrapped up I want the evaluate two of it's biggest stars, Roman Reigns & Kazuchika Okada. I want to know from the forum who was more important to the decade? You can go by any metric (Matches Quality, Drawing Power, or anything you see to help your opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 5, 2019 Report Share Posted December 5, 2019 Not even close. Okada. Defined the state of the art pro-wrestling of the decade; took the torch passed on by Tanahashi and kept on rebuilding NJPW into a hot promotion (the only hot promotion in Japan, really). Reigns has been the rejected chosen one of a slowly crumbling down (in term of interest and attendance) WWE. So there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 Yeah Okada, easily, and I'm not a fan of the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 John Cena is the last proper difference-maker in American pro wrestling, right? Roman might have drawn more dollars and cents than Okada, but Okada was far more important to his promotion and to his country's wrestling scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 I'd be a bit surprised if anyone here other than Kawada Smile picked The Big Dog. Count me among those who don't really think it's close. If you replaced Roman on top for his entire run I don't think WWE would be noticeably better or worse off, but it's difficult to imagine NJPW at it's present heights without Okada as the ace leading the way. Great job on that poster, by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenese Sarwieh Posted December 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 I'm in the not even close camp myself with Okada, I was curious in seeing who could come up with a strong argument for Reigns. It's all all about presenting your chosen top guy as special and while New Japan excelled in this aspect WWE failed miserably. 48 minutes ago, gordi said: Great job on that poster, by the way! Thanks good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 I'd love to see this match play out, and would hope Roman wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 Who I like and would rather watch? Roman no doubt. But Okada is more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 To be fair to Roman, no way would Okada be 1/10th the star he is if he had been forced to wrestle fucking Baron Corbin every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenese Sarwieh Posted December 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 4 hours ago, MoS said: To be fair to Roman, no way would Okada be 1/10th the star he is if he had been forced to wrestle fucking Baron Corbin every week. Luckily Gedo is smarter than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 On 12/6/2019 at 11:34 AM, gordi said: I'd be a bit surprised if anyone here other than Kawada Smile picked The Big Dog. Nah, I get the argument for Okada > Roman. I mean, in ring it's the other way around for me, but in terms of importance it's not even close. Okada took a stagnant company and made it grow when he was the ace. Roman, despite making WWE more interesting - the show suffered a lot without him -, isn't a needle mover like Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted December 7, 2019 Report Share Posted December 7, 2019 Not putting Reigns over Brock Lesnar at a WrestleMania is, to me, the defining non-moment of Reigns' career and really takes away much of his importance to me. His list of other kayfabe accomplishments is not so impressive either. As I referenced above, he couldn't beat Lesnar at either WrestleMania opportunity. He didn't retire Undertaker. He didn't retire Triple H. Him beating cancer should've been a massive story but was treated like no big deal. He's won a ton of championships in an era in which championships don't mean anything. I hate to beat a dead horse, but even when he's not been the recognized WWE/Universal Champion, since his return, Brock Lesnar has been treated as the absolute top guy, even usurping Cena and Undertaker at this point. Beating him was supposed to be Reigns' coronation, but he failed twice and nobody remembers that he eventually did beat Lesnar at a lesser show. From a non-kayfabe perspective, I guess his biggest impact on the WWE product was that, as part of the Shield, he was a catalyst for the company to produce quality six-man tags? To be honest, looking at this decade, I don't even think Roman Reigns is the most important wrestler in the WWE let alone the world. Daniel Bryan had a bigger impact on the product than Reigns has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenese Sarwieh Posted December 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 hours ago, DMJ said: Not putting Reigns over Brock Lesnar at a WrestleMania is, to me, the defining non-moment of Reigns' career and really takes away much of his importance to me. His list of other kayfabe accomplishments is not so impressive either. As I referenced above, he couldn't beat Lesnar at either WrestleMania opportunity. He didn't retire Undertaker. He didn't retire Triple H. Him beating cancer should've been a massive story but was treated like no big deal. He's won a ton of championships in an era in which championships don't mean anything. I hate to beat a dead horse, but even when he's not been the recognized WWE/Universal Champion, since his return, Brock Lesnar has been treated as the absolute top guy, even usurping Cena and Undertaker at this point. Beating him was supposed to be Reigns' coronation, but he failed twice and nobody remembers that he eventually did beat Lesnar at a lesser show. From a non-kayfabe perspective, I guess his biggest impact on the WWE product was that, as part of the Shield, he was a catalyst for the company to produce quality six-man tags? To be honest, looking at this decade, I don't even think Roman Reigns is the most important wrestler in the WWE let alone the world. Daniel Bryan had a bigger impact on the product than Reigns has. This is so spot on. They're treating him better now but damage has already been done. Sad to say it but when his program with Corbin is over he'll get in the main event scene not getting booed as previously and win the Universal Championship and people will see him as just a guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted December 8, 2019 Report Share Posted December 8, 2019 10 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Nah, I get the argument for Okada > Roman. I mean, in ring it's the other way around for me, but in terms of importance it's not even close. Okada took a stagnant company and made it grow when he was the ace. Roman, despite making WWE more interesting - the show suffered a lot without him -, isn't a needle mover like Cena. That pretty much puts a cap on it, in my opinion. You are probably the truest Reigns fan that I know, and even you think that Okada was more important... "Who is better?" or "Who do you like more?" might have a different result. I wonder what two wrestlers would make for the most contentious "Who was more important?" argument. El Santo vs Thesz? Inoki vs Baba? Hogan vs Flair? Danielson vs Styles? Trish vs Charlotte? Shockmaster vs Catweasel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartMark15 Posted December 8, 2019 Report Share Posted December 8, 2019 While I definitely think Reigns is likely the better overall performer, he's been booked to have no importance. It's sad but that's how it is. Okada takes this one fairly easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted December 8, 2019 Report Share Posted December 8, 2019 Okada, not even close. New Japan had been on life support for years when Okada came back from excursion in 2012. 7 years later they are drawing 10,000 plus fans several times a year thanks to him. Really its an arguement as to who was pushed and promoted better and thats not even remotely close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted December 8, 2019 Report Share Posted December 8, 2019 Gotta go with Okada as well. He literally has carried New Japan on his shoulders from the moment he got his big push and won his first IWGP title and every win against him is treated as a big deal. Roman Reigns has been the victim of WWE's booking and Vince's obsession to shove someone down fans' throats when they clearly don't want to. And now that Roman has returned after beating cancer, he could be that guy for WWE but Vince has now decided that it's more entertaining booking him against the likes of charisma vacuums like Baron Corbin and here we are. By his work, Roman never deserved all the hate he received due to his booking and because of WWE's philosophy, now that he is accepted by fans, he'll never get close to what Okada has accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 20 hours ago, gordi said: That pretty much puts a cap on it, in my opinion. You are probably the truest Reigns fan that I know, and even you think that Okada was more important... Thanks for the compliment, bubba. But some things are hard to dispute no matter how much we stan. @SmartMark15 summed it perfectly: he was booked to irrelevance. Never pulled the trigger properly and now despite being at worst the #2 performer (behind DB) and with an amazing life story, he's just another dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 Okada for all the reasons listed above...but, if we can make meta-argument, Roman was the summation of every lousy fucking decision that WWE made in the past decade. One third of a hugely popular faction? Let's break them up at their peak. Great at looking dominant in short bursts? Make him go 20-30 minutes. Comes off like a legit BAMF by being the strong silent type? "Sufferin' succotash." A handful of killer moves? Spam the hell out of them, taking the impact away more and more each time. Okada may be the greater success story of the past decade, but Roman is the poster boy for the western fans' collective disenchantment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 That is very well put, Laz. Really sums it up nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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